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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Luck orMiracle?
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
cherovis
Member
I think luck is random . . could be the reason people have deemed it as "dumb luck". I think luck can happen to good or bad people. But luck is not a constant. You can't be gifted luck & there's no one to thank for luck.
I think a miracle is divine intervention. A miracle is deliberate action. I think miracles are interventions for good & bad people, all in the attempt to cause glory to be given to the Father.
I think a miracle is divine intervention. A miracle is deliberate action. I think miracles are interventions for good & bad people, all in the attempt to cause glory to be given to the Father.
Mountain Man
Member
Jesus said that in this world you will have tribulation,he said be of good cheer for I have overcome the world,he did not say all of it was for a grand purpose but that it simply would happen and that he would be with us....are we to believe that we do not suffer at all from living in a fallen state in a fallen world ?
andymac1981
Member
But it does say in Romans as I stated ALL (emphasis mine) things work together for good to those who love God. So again I disagree all things are for a great purpose and all are the Lords will.
Mountain Man
Member
So there is a contradiction ? the bible also tells us that we suffer because of our own foolishness at times,if I assume that everything bad that happens to me is some grand purpose and not my own foolishness or perhaps innocent yet still consequential mistake then I must think pretty highly of myself....or put another way I have it so together that nothing is ever my fault but only God's higher purpose....I don't think that highly of myself.
I have just flipped a coin three times. It has come up heads three times in a row. This proves that I have a destiny. Now, the only question that remains is about the nature of that destiny, right? I mean, I could take a trip to a casino and my destiny might be revealed. Either I am destined to become an addicted gambler or I am destined to become rich so that I may better serve the Lord. I wonder.
What should I do? Should I toss the coin and hope for a miracle? No worries, I'll be sure to check and make sure that it is not that stupid two-headed coin that has tripped me up so often in the past. I remember flipping a coin to choose for me if I should buy the two-headed coin or not. This time it will need to be a shiny new penny, that'll settle it, right?
If I "buy into" the false dichotomy presented by the black-and-white dilemma here and believe that it must be either luck or "God would have it" then why not simply trust in my version of the fleece test (spoken of in Judges 6:37 and other places) and toss the coin?
2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Job 32:8 ESV
But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.
Jonah 1:7 ESV
And they said to one another, “Come, let us cast lots, that we may know on whose account this evil has come upon us.” So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah.
2 Corinthians 3:14 ESV
But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
Acts 4:12 ESV
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
*******************************************
It's also good to notice that Gideon's test did not involve a coin. Gideon was talking to the Lord, "Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said. 38 And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water. 39 And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew. 40 And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground."
Gideon didn't have the benefit of the Gift of the Holy Spirit that Peter spoke about in Acts 2:38,39. Well, not in the same way that we do. That gift had been prophesied about by the prophet Joel and was fulfilled after Jesus rose victorious. We do not need to test God in that manner but instead may enter through His gate with praise on our lips.
What should I do? Should I toss the coin and hope for a miracle? No worries, I'll be sure to check and make sure that it is not that stupid two-headed coin that has tripped me up so often in the past. I remember flipping a coin to choose for me if I should buy the two-headed coin or not. This time it will need to be a shiny new penny, that'll settle it, right?If I "buy into" the false dichotomy presented by the black-and-white dilemma here and believe that it must be either luck or "God would have it" then why not simply trust in my version of the fleece test (spoken of in Judges 6:37 and other places) and toss the coin?
2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Job 32:8 ESV
But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.
John 16:13 ESV said:
Jonah 1:7 ESV
And they said to one another, “Come, let us cast lots, that we may know on whose account this evil has come upon us.” So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah.
2 Corinthians 3:14 ESV
But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
Acts 4:12 ESV
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
*******************************************
It's also good to notice that Gideon's test did not involve a coin. Gideon was talking to the Lord, "Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said. 38 And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water. 39 And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew. 40 And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground."
Gideon didn't have the benefit of the Gift of the Holy Spirit that Peter spoke about in Acts 2:38,39. Well, not in the same way that we do. That gift had been prophesied about by the prophet Joel and was fulfilled after Jesus rose victorious. We do not need to test God in that manner but instead may enter through His gate with praise on our lips.
Last edited by a moderator:
andymac1981
Member
I agree that the bad things that happen are because of a fallen world. Though I think we have to remember The Lord is sovereign in everything. This means that he has control over the bad as well as the good and his permissive will allows these bad things to happen for our good.
Mountain Man
Member
andymac1981
Member
Yea our own sin or the sin of others but it is all for our good.
Mountain Man
Member
So if I carry that logic forward it realy doesn't matter at all how I live.....its all good.
andymac1981
Member
Well it depends why you choose not to sin. As we are saved by The Lord Jesus Christ we have no reason to fear death but it should be our love for God that stops us sinning.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
That is the only reason we can choose not to sin. Until we are saved, we do not have a choice.
Mountain Man
Member
So being saved means you never sin again ? or even face the consequences of any mistakes ?
andymac1981
Member
No that's not what I'm saying it is impossible for us not to sin what I am saying and I should have wrote it better is the reason we should try and not sin is for the love of The Lord.
Mountain Man
Member
I understand but if we still sin and the "all good" concept remains then that means when we suffer because of our sin God will reward us for it...if it is ALL good then its ALL good.I put forth the idea that it is when we suffer for Christ sake or because of living a Godly life that the bad is turned into good.
andymac1981
Member
I do see your point, I suppose I still differ slightly as I believe that when we sin. The tribulation we suffer from our sin (the fruits) is our punishment, but The Lord will work that to his good and for his glory.
andymac1981
Member
We have moved onto discussing if God uses every circumstance in our lives and works it for good.
Classik
Member
I have read in the scripture (can't remember the chapters)....a particular people believed whatever happened to them, good or bad, was of the Lord.
We were taught that during my Highschool days. (I was part of a religious class). There is a chapter in the new testament that testifies that.
Honestly I'm still confused...about such decisions.
Some have considered if something was "good in their sight" or not. How can we remove ourselves from evil unless we consider God in all things? Strangely, this means that we don't get to judge a thing just because it seems to be good and for our benefit. Down that path go those who believe that the blessing of God means increase to our fat checking accounts. That's not what He said.