Marriage in Biblical Times

[ExtraMedium]

Does anyone have a good resource, book, website with credible historic information regarding marriage around the time of Christ? My pastor (and many others) say that "back then" it wasn't uncommon to have 12-15yo's getting married. Okay... where does it say this?

Are there other historical books or references which depict married life back in the day?

I'm trying to explain some of these things to my 12yo and can't find any resources.

thanks!

 

[Mike]

Your pastor is correct. Mary was very young, herself. I don't know any books to refer you to, but our society does promote waiting until an older age. What point were you trying to make with your daughter?

christianity.about.com/od/newtestamentpeople/p/marymotherjesus.htm

 

[highlife]

If churchs were truely concerned with pre marital sex they would have pre arranged marriages at 18. Or even younger where a couple can get married with parental concent in some states.

Seems like there is alot of posturing in church but no real meaningful action that would eliminate pre marital sex.

 

[ExtraMedium]

Actually my son is 12yo. He overheard somewhere in church that people got married as early as 11 or 12 and averaged around 13 or 14 back in biblical days. I said that was true... but then couldn't provide any reference.

He's not interested in sex (thank God), but the point is... okay, premarital sex. If you're 13 or 14, yeah, I think they could hold out until they're 14 to get married (in biblical times). But what if, in biblical times, they were mid-30s (like today in most urban areas). How in the world are kids turning into adults suppose to sequester those desires until mid-30s? Or in my case, my wife divorced me when I was 33, and I met someone when I was 35. Being that I have already had sex, am I suppose to pretend like I've never had sex before and wait until married again? (we didn't)

 

[highlife]

Actually my son is 12yo. He overheard somewhere in church that people got married as early as 11 or 12 and averaged around 13 or 14 back in biblical days. I said that was true... but then couldn't provide any reference.

He's not interested in sex (thank God), but the point is... okay, premarital sex. If you're 13 or 14, yeah, I think they could hold out until they're 14 to get married (in biblical times). But what if, in biblical times, they were mid-30s (like today in most urban areas). How in the world are kids turning into adults suppose to sequester those desires until mid-30s? Or in my case, my wife divorced me when I was 33, and I met someone when I was 35. Being that I have already had sex, am I suppose to pretend like I've never had sex before and wait until married again? (we didn't)

If you dont pretend then you will get an ear full either in real life at church or here. I find the less stuff people in real life know about us and our relationship the better.

 

[ExtraMedium]

If you dont pretend then you will get an ear full either in real life at church or here. I find the less stuff people in real life know about us and our relationship the better.

The one thing my church as well as my brothers there advocate is being transparent. Confessing our sins to one another for opinions and advice. The only way we can repent is to know we are sinning, else hiding it doesn't make it any less sinful

 

[highlife]

The one thing my church as well as my brothers there advocate is being transparent. Confessing our sins to one another for opinions and advice. The only way we can repent is to know we are sinning, else hiding it doesn't make it any less sinful

However, I have found that more and more in church things are being spun as "sin" that are really disputable matters when you really dig into the bible, however trying to convince others that its disputable is like talking to a wall thus they are trying to lay a guilt trip while you are advocating that its not sin and it can create quite the conundrum.

The guilt tripping and drama is more important to some than agreeing to disagree that maybe just maybe you have a valid biblical point that your situation is in fact disputable. There can be a lack of basic respect in alot of churchs in this regard. Once someone is totally ignoring your points and going off the deep end with their guilt trip despite the fact that you think its disputable is going to put peoples shields up and they are not going to want to be transparent anymore.

Could you imagin the drama if someone found out you were divorced and seeing someone else without a piece of paper from the state ed!

 

[ExtraMedium]

Could you imagin the drama if someone found out you were divorced and seeing someone else without a piece of paper from the state ed!

I thought if I was divorced then I was a sinner and unable to marry, or something like that.

I know I'm stirring a lot of feathers on here in other threads, but as a former atheist and new Christian a lot of the fun for me is researching some of these common Christian assumptions (earth is 6,000yo, can't cohabitate prior to marriage, temptation vs sin) and debunk myths from reality.

 

[handy]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif][if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> I really don't know of any books that have solid historical data on how young people were when married in biblical times. I know that we get a lot of information from rabbinical tradition...and rabbinical tradition can be pretty doggone accurate.

This post will be long, but I want to present to this discussion a sort of micro-sub-societal example of what it is to follow godly principles in regards to early marriage and abstinence before marriage. The micro-sub-society is my own family. This is my mom and dad, two sisters and their husbands, my brother and his wife, and my 12 nieces and nephews and their spouses and Steve and I. With the exception of my brother's daughter and her husband and Steve, everyone was a virgin when married. With the exception of my sister's daughter and one of her son's, all the marriage are well into their second decades. No divorces, no prior marriages, no prior relationships that included sex. (And none of the marriages were “arranged†lol!)


All of us are Christians and we all live our lives according to God’s principles as laid out within the Scriptures.

In my family, marriage before 20 is the norm. One niece was 27 when she married. She had been engaged to be married when she was 20, but called the wedding off a week before. One nephew was 28 when he was married. Everyone else was late teens/early 20's.

I don't buy into this idea that we have to wait until well into the 20's prior to marriage. All the reasons given for this: Needing to finish school, needing to build up a career, needing to buy a house and become financially sound... are all things that can be done, and oftentimes done easier when a couple is married and can support each other. Remember what the biblical role of a wife is... to be a help meet. A good wife can help a guy do all the above and more... This is certainly the norm in my family. My sisters, and each of my nieces and nephews who were married young, all bought their own homes prior to age 25. Those of us who didn't own our homes prior to 25, were my brother (which had nothing to do with his young marriage and everything to do with the fact that before he met my sister-in-law, he was a druggie drop-out and didn't even have a decent high school education) the niece and nephew who weren't married and me. Yep... being single actually made it harder for us to become financially stable.

My eldest sister and brother-in-law each finished college although they were married when she was 18 and he was 24. She is a teacher and he is a Christian school principal. He is also a licensed pastor. My other sister and brother-in-law built up a highly successful flooring installation business. Their clientele includes a former governor of Idaho and several people whose names you would know... Idaho having a Hollywood connection.

Out of my nieces and nephews, three have college degrees, two graduated from POST (Peace Officer Standards and Training) and are now deputized. One is a licensed Relator. One is a teacher. College isn't for everyone, and not all of my nieces and nephews graduated from college, but even the ones who didn't graduate from college are successful in that they own their homes, live relatively debt free (mortgages and some finance their vehicles), have solid, godly marriages and happy home lives.

In each era, Christians have had to face various challenges to their walk. In some places, just being a Christian is a challenge, in that one can be killed for it. But in every place, in every era, Christians have faced the conflict between what the world says is OK, even good and God's commandments.

For us in 21st century Western society... that conflict is generally about sex and debt. Somehow, it's being presented as good that a person must go to college and graduate college deeply in debt (often well into the tens of thousands of dollars) with student loans, credit card debt, financed vehicles, etc... but to not marry. However, having sex is OK. It's even considered weird if you don't.

The niece and nephew I mentioned earlier, who were older when married, are brother and sister. My nephew married a woman who was 26. One day, the three of us; niece, niece in law and me, were discussing the issue of sex and being celibate for so long. We agreed, it's no picnic...but it's nonetheless doable. My brother's daughter was pregnant (she was 17, he was 18)... but as soon as they found out she was pregnant, they confessed in their church, got married in a simple, but sweet ceremony and have been happily married now for 11 years. But, everyone else remained abstinent prior to marriage…even those of us who married later. My husband wasn’t a virgin when we met…him not being a Christian during his college years… but he was living an abstinent life when we met, just as I was.

Hard, yes. But, sometimes walking the walk is hard. While sex is a natural function, the Scriptures are clear that we are to put the natural man to death and live a new life in Christ as His creation, doing the works that He has commanded and following His precepts.
[FONT=&quot]
I truly believe that this idea that we should pressure our kids into waiting until their mid to late 20’s to marry is a lie straight from the pits of hell. It just causes a lot of heartache and places a heavy yoke upon our kids. It’s also a lie that it’s impossible to wait to have sex. It’s not fun, but it’s not impossible and it’s what God commands.[/FONT]

 

[ExtraMedium]

Wow Dora, what a great testimony! Great to hear kids doing it right, for the right reasons. You guys really do provide a great witness to what Jesus wants from all of us!

I think it's more for those in the city who like to marry older. I lived in hollywood for a few years and the thought of getting married before 30 was crazy. It's all about your career, and moving up the social/financial ladder. They see getting married as a hindrance to it.

Too bad. I'd love to be 80 and say that I've been married for 60 years, than just 40 or 30.

 

[highlife]

I really don't know of any books that have solid historical data on how young people were when married in biblical times. I know that we get a lot of information from rabbinical tradition...and rabbinical tradition can be pretty doggone accurate.

This post will be long, but I want to present to this discussion a sort of micro-sub-societal example of what it is to follow godly principles in regards to early marriage and abstinence before marriage. The micro-sub-society is my own family. This is my mom and dad, two sisters and their husbands, my brother and his wife, and my 12 nieces and nephews and their spouses and Steve and I. With the exception of my brother's daughter and her husband and Steve, everyone was a virgin when married. With the exception of my sister's daughter and one of her son's, all the marriage are well into their second decades. No divorces, no prior marriages, no prior relationships that included sex. (And none of the marriages were “arranged” lol!)


All of us are Christians and we all live our lives according to God’s principles as laid out within the Scriptures.

In my family, marriage before 20 is the norm. One niece was 27 when she married. She had been engaged to be married when she was 20, but called the wedding off a week before. One nephew was 28 when he was married. Everyone else was late teens/early 20's.

I don't buy into this idea that we have to wait until well into the 20's prior to marriage. All the reasons given for this: Needing to finish school, needing to build up a career, needing to buy a house and become financially sound... are all things that can be done, and oftentimes done easier when a couple is married and can support each other. Remember what the biblical role of a wife is... to be a help meet. A good wife can help a guy do all the above and more... This is certainly the norm in my family. My sisters, and each of my nieces and nephews who were married young, all bought their own homes prior to age 25. Those of us who didn't own our homes prior to 25, were my brother (which had nothing to do with his young marriage and everything to do with the fact that before he met my sister-in-law, he was a druggie drop-out and didn't even have a decent high school education) the niece and nephew who weren't married and me. Yep... being single actually made it harder for us to become financially stable.

My eldest sister and brother-in-law each finished college although they were married when she was 18 and he was 24. She is a teacher and he is a Christian school principal. He is also a licensed pastor. My other sister and brother-in-law built up a highly successful flooring installation business. Their clientele includes a former governor of Idaho and several people whose names you would know... Idaho having a Hollywood connection.

Out of my nieces and nephews, three have college degrees, two graduated from POST (Peace Officer Standards and Training) and are now deputized. One is a licensed Relator. One is a teacher. College isn't for everyone, and not all of my nieces and nephews graduated from college, but even the ones who didn't graduate from college are successful in that they own their homes, live relatively debt free (mortgages and some finance their vehicles), have solid, godly marriages and happy home lives.

In each era, Christians have had to face various challenges to their walk. In some places, just being a Christian is a challenge, in that one can be killed for it. But in every place, in every era, Christians have faced the conflict between what the world says is OK, even good and God's commandments.

For us in 21st century Western society... that conflict is generally about sex and debt. Somehow, it's being presented as good that a person must go to college and graduate college deeply in debt (often well into the tens of thousands of dollars) with student loans, credit card debt, financed vehicles, etc... but to not marry. However, having sex is OK. It's even considered weird if you don't.

The niece and nephew I mentioned earlier, who were older when married, are brother and sister. My nephew married a woman who was 26. One day, the three of us; niece, niece in law and me, were discussing the issue of sex and being celibate for so long. We agreed, it's no picnic...but it's nonetheless doable. My brother's daughter was pregnant (she was 17, he was 18)... but as soon as they found out she was pregnant, they confessed in their church, got married in a simple, but sweet ceremony and have been happily married now for 11 years. But, everyone else remained abstinent prior to marriage…even those of us who married later. My husband wasn’t a virgin when we met…him not being a Christian during his college years… but he was living an abstinent life when we met, just as I was.

Hard, yes. But, sometimes walking the walk is hard. While sex is a natural function, the Scriptures are clear that we are to put the natural man to death and live a new life in Christ as His creation, doing the works that He has commanded and following His precepts.

[FONT=&quot]I truly believe that this idea that we should pressure our kids into waiting until their mid to late 20’s to marry is a lie straight from the pits of hell. It just causes a lot of heartache and places a heavy yoke upon our kids. It’s also a lie that it’s impossible to wait to have sex. It’s not fun, but it’s not impossible and it’s what God commands.[/FONT]

Nothing is impossible the bigger question is does abstaining add any real value once you have mitigated the obvious risks (unwanted pregnancy and STD's), of course if you like the person enough to sleep with them then you might as well get married.

In my mind the lower the fun level the bigger the pay out must be, if im doing something that is miserable there better be a pot of gold at the end of it and im not talking about after death but in this life. I wont endure suffering becuase of a church phylosophy.

 

[handy]

I thought if I was divorced then I was a sinner and unable to marry, or something like that.

I know I'm stirring a lot of feathers on here in other threads, but as a former atheist and new Christian a lot of the fun for me is researching some of these common Christian assumptions (earth is 6,000yo, can't cohabitate prior to marriage, temptation vs sin) and debunk myths from reality.

As a new Christian... you need to become a student of your faith and that starts with committing yourself to studying the Bible.

I've been studying the bible for getting close to 40 years now.

Highlife is absolutely right that some things are disputable in the Scriptures. Things like whether or not a divorced Christian is free to remarry... disputable. Really, there is no clear cut answer to that one and we should allow the individual to follow the Spirit's lead in that matter. My own belief in the matter is, if for some reason I ever was divorced, I would most likely remain single... but I'm not going to insist that this is clearly biblical, because it isn't.

There are also things that are disputable that should clearly be matters of Christian liberty, things such as drinking, getting tattoos, even masturbation.

Somethings aren't taught in the Scriptures at all and are clearly myth...like the idea that the earth is only 6000 years old. That came about by a guy who took the various genealogies written in the Scriptures and averaging how old a guy was when he "begat" the next guy, up to Christ then adding 1800 years (him living in the 1800's when he developed this theory.) The truth of the matter is, the Bible in no way states how old the earth is and there is certainly much room for scolarly disagreement as to what Genesis teaches about the matter.

But, there are certain issues within the Scriptures that are not disputable, not debatable and "agreeing to disagree" is basically agreeing to a lie.

One of these issues is the issue of premarital sex. Fornication does not mean "temple prostitution" as some have been erroneously taught. Fornication is a word that describe any and all sexual behavior outside of one man being married to one woman. Marriage, in the Scriptures, is not a matter of just living together. It one chooses not to be blinded to the subject, one can see, by simply looking at all the texts that specifically describe marriage, marriage has always included acceptance by the family, and legal status within the community. That men once took on concubines and sex slaves is only proof that men were sinners who did things outside of God's perfect will. The new testament is clear... marriage is a legally binding, socially recognizable agreement between a man and a woman.

Not disputable or up for debate.

If you want to look up in the Scriptures about godly marriage, what it is, what it isn't... what are bad examples from the Old Testament and what God expects from His children in these matters, I'd be happy to provide the texts.

 

[highlife]

As a new Christian... you need to become a student of your faith and that starts with committing yourself to studying the Bible.

I've been studying the bible for getting close to 40 years now.

Highlife is absolutely right that some things are disputable in the Scriptures. Things like whether or not a divorced Christian is free to remarry... disputable. Really, there is no clear cut answer to that one and we should allow the individual to follow the Spirit's lead in that matter. My own belief in the matter is, if for some reason I ever was divorced, I would most likely remain single... but I'm not going to insist that this is clearly biblical, because it isn't.

There are also things that are disputable that should clearly be matters of Christian liberty, things such as drinking, getting tattoos, even masturbation.

Somethings aren't taught in the Scriptures at all and are clearly myth...like the idea that the earth is only 6000 years old. That came about by a guy who took the various genealogies written in the Scriptures and averaging how old a guy was when he "begat" the next guy, up to Christ then adding 1800 years (him living in the 1800's when he developed this theory.) The truth of the matter is, the Bible in no way states how old the earth is and there is certainly much room for scolarly disagreement as to what Genesis teaches about the matter.

But, there are certain issues within the Scriptures that are not disputable, not debatable and "agreeing to disagree" is basically agreeing to a lie.

One of these issues is the issue of premarital sex. Fornication does not mean "temple prostitution" as some have been erroneously taught. Fornication is a word that describe any and all sexual behavior outside of one man being married to one woman. Marriage, in the Scriptures, is not a matter of just living together. It one chooses not to be blinded to the subject, one can see, by simply looking at all the texts that specifically describe marriage, marriage has always included acceptance by the family, and legal status within the community. That men once took on concubines and sex slaves is only proof that men were sinners who did things outside of God's perfect will. The new testament is clear... marriage is a legally binding, socially recognizable agreement between a man and a woman.

Not disputable or up for debate.

If you want to look up in the Scriptures about godly marriage, what it is, what it isn't... what are bad examples from the Old Testament and what God expects from His children in these matters, I'd be happy to provide the texts.

Agreeing to disagree is just basic respect to prevent full blown blow outs amoungst believers. You believe its not disputable but I believe it is, we both agree there is no hardened fast specific scripture that mandates a marriage process. I believe anything further is simply disrespectful and causes division.

Why is agreeing to disagree such a bad thing. I could see if I said I think stealing is disputable becuase it is very clearly mandated in the bible, but thats not the issue here. I believe churchs that push an agenda that they can not concreatly prove are being rabble rousers.

 

[handy]

Nothing is impossible the bigger question is does abstaining add any real value once you have mitigated the obvious risks (unwanted pregnancy and STD's), of course if you like the person enough to sleep with them then you might as well get married.

In my mind the lower the fun level the bigger the pay out must be, if im doing something that is miserable there better be a pot of gold at the end of it and im not talking about after death but in this life. I wont endure suffering becuase of a church phylosophy.

Well, I'll challenge you, highlife, that this is a fairly narcissistic attitude and not a godly one at all. Being a Christian means having the mind of Christ... who did not engage in premarital sex and endured much suffering.

Now, as to the "value" of waiting until marriage before sex... I believe there is great value in it.

First of all, sex is meant to be the most intimate part of our relationship with our spouse. The more people we have sex with... the less and less it builds intimacy... let's face it, there's only so many people we can be "intimate" with before intimacy becomes a joke.

Secondly, sex can distract from truly getting to know a person. When one is focused on being a...what's that delightful term you use..."freak in the sheets"... one can lose sight of other things about a person... things that are going to impact the marriage big time.

Highlife, I know you said on a different thread that sex is the single most important part of marriage... but it's not in a godly marriage. In a godly marriage, the single most important thing is to build a godly, stable home in which children can be raised up in the nurture of the Lord and become the strong Christians of the next generation. In this way, both the Church and society in general become stronger. Focusing on one's own sexual pleasure gets in the way of that, mainly because it's selfish, and self satisfaction is at odds with godly growth. It also causes one, especially for women, to ignore important things that can lead to divorce and broken relationships. This is most likely why... in study after study, they have found that people who live together before marriage have a higher divorce rate.

 

[handy]

Agreeing to disagree is just basic respect to prevent full blown blow outs amoungst believers. You believe its not disputable but I believe it is, we both agree there is no hardened fast specific scripture that mandates a marriage process. I believe anything further is simply disrespectful and causes division.

Why is agreeing to disagree such a bad thing. I could see if I said I think stealing is disputable becuase it is very clearly mandated in the bible, but thats not the issue here. I believe churchs that push an agenda that they can not concreatly prove are being rabble rousers.

Well, anyone around here can tell you, I can rouse rabble with the best of 'em!

You said, "we both agree there is no hardened fast specific scripture that mandates a marriage process."

NO WE DON'T. I don't know how much clearer I can be with you that Scripture does indeed mandate a marriage process. While the specifics of what constitutes legal marriage can be determined by society, and thus be changeable... the Scriptures are clear... very clear, that marriage mandates legal recognition, by both family and community. It is not just "living together".

 

[ExtraMedium]

the Scriptures are clear... very clear, that marriage mandates legal recognition, by both family and community. It is not just "living together".

Where does it say, anywhere in the Bible that it's a sin to live together before marriage?

 

[highlife]

Well, anyone around here can tell you, I can rouse rabble with the best of 'em!

You said, "we both agree there is no hardened fast specific scripture that mandates a marriage process."

NO WE DON'T. I don't know how much clearer I can be with you that Scripture does indeed mandate a marriage process. While the specifics of what constitutes legal marriage can be determined by society, and thus be changeable... the Scriptures are clear... very clear, that marriage mandates legal recognition, by both family and community. It is not just "living together".

I will give you the benifit of the doubt to show me what scripture lays out SPECIFIC requirements to a wedding. It is very possible that I have not read it yet as I have not read a few of the later OT books yet. Just to be clear I am not going to accept a bunch of logical gymnastics and piece mail of scripture that is taken out of context. The bible is specific when it wants to be so when one has to jump through hoops to prove an agenda I dont usually buy it.

 

[Free]

If churchs were truely concerned with pre marital sex they would have pre arranged marriages at 18. Or even younger where a couple can get married with parental concent in some states.

Seems like there is alot of posturing in church but no real meaningful action that would eliminate pre marital sex.

What does premarital sex have to do with the topic?

 

[Free]

Where does it say, anywhere in the Bible that it's a sin to live together before marriage?

This is not a good argument. The Bible provides us with a basis for Christian living. It is, at least in part, to get us thinking like Christ instead of the world, so it need not be specific about everything.

 

[highlife]

This is not a good argument. The Bible provides us with a basis for Christian living. It is, at least in part, to get us thinking like Christ instead of the world, so it need not be specific about everything.

In my mind it does, once you go down that road it becomes impossibe to refute someone and you create unnessicary quarels. So am I suppose to modify my life because of your or the churchs opinion even though it cant be found in the bible.

That sounds like a cult to me.