Marriage in Biblical Times

[ExtraMedium]

This is not a good argument. The Bible provides us with a basis for Christian living. It is, at least in part, to get us thinking like Christ instead of the world, so it need not be specific about everything.

Whoa, so you're saying the Bible isn't being specific on the things it instructs for us, rather providing generalities so we can live a Christ-like life? I know that's not what you meant.

I know Jesus never dated, married, courted, fornicated, co-habitated, divorced or got in a fist fight with anyone, which makes it hard for those of us who have to have a specific role model. We also don't have a record of his teenage years, which (as we all know) are the most volatile, rebellious yet defining part of our lives. Hard to be an example on specific life issues when we don't have our Lord doing it first.

 

[handy]

Where does it say, anywhere in the Bible that it's a sin to live together before marriage?

You don't believe that living together before marriage = fornication?

I know Jesus never dated, married, courted, fornicated, co-habitated, divorced or got in a fist fight with anyone, which makes it hard for those of us who have to have a specific role model. We also don't have a record of his teenage years, which (as we all know) are the most volatile, rebellious yet defining part of our lives. Hard to be an example on specific life issues when we don't have our Lord doing it first.

Are you implying that Jesus may very well have sinned?

As for Jesus never dating, marrying, fornicating, etc... and being a model... for a unbeliever, no He could never be a role model...

But, for those born of the Spirit... most certainly He is a role model. One must be born-again though.

I will give you the benifit of the doubt to show me what scripture lays out SPECIFIC requirements to a wedding.

Since when did we start talking about weddings? Weddings are not necessarily what constitutes legal marriage. Certainly now, in America, weddings are not necessary at all... a simple trip to the court for a marriage license, couple of questions from the JOP and signatures and two are legally married. If the couple want to have a big church wedding, or a destination wedding, whatever...but no one is married legally until and unless they get the license and sign it witnessed by a legally recognized officiant.

What the Bible does show specific examples of is that marriage was more than just living together... marriage involved going to the bride's family, having them recognize the union, usually involved a dowry of some sorts... and the community recognized it as a legal marriage as opposed to the woman being the man's concubine.

Concubines are the biblical example of people living together without marriage. Concubines had limited legal rights, but were in no way considered wives. God never instituted the practice of keeping concubines, just as He didn't institute the practice of divorce. The New Testament has no provision for the practice of keeping a concubine within the Church... none. The New Testament only recognizes marriage, only refers to a husband and a wife (one man/one woman), and we are told to keep the marriage bed holy. There is no mention anywhere in the New Testament of any man being able to have more than one wife or keep concubines. There is, however, many mentions regarding marriage as being between one man and one woman. Had the practice of polygamy and keeping concubines been widely accepted within the New Testament, surly it would have been referred to, instead of the very pointed references to one man/one woman marriage. "Let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband." 1 Corinthians 7:2

 

[ExtraMedium]

You don't believe that living together before marriage = fornication?

The assumption that just because a man & woman are living together that they are also having sex would fall under the category of casting judgement. Whether they are or not is between them and God, but assuming such is sin.

and we are told to keep the marriage bed holy.

Yes, the marriage bed. Not the pre-marriage bed. After you are married, there should be no fornication outside of your own husband/wife.

 

[Hitch]

The assumption that just because a man & woman are living together that they are also having sex would fall under the category of casting judgement. Whether they are or not is between them and God, but assuming such is sin.

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny




Yes, the marriage bed. Not the pre-marriage bed. After you are married, there should be no fornication outside of your own husband/wife.[/QUOTE]

 

[handy]

The assumption that just because a man & woman are living together that they are also having sex would fall under the category of casting judgement. Whether they are or not is between them and God, but assuming such is sin.




Yes, the marriage bed. Not the pre-marriage bed. After you are married, there should be no fornication outside of your own husband/wife.

OK EM...got me. For the record any time I refer to "living together" in regards to a man and a woman...I'm specifically referring to a sexual relationship.... not platonic room-mates.

 

[handy]

Yes, the marriage bed. Not the pre-marriage bed. After you are married, there should be no fornication outside of your own husband/wife.

After you are married, any sex outside one's husband/wife is referred to as adultery. Adultery is forbidden as well.

Fornication is sex outside of marriage. Any man and woman living together* without marriage are, by definition, fornicating.

*see post #25 ;)

 

[ExtraMedium]

OK EM...got me. For the record any time I refer to "living together" in regards to a man and a woman...I'm specifically referring to a sexual relationship.... not platonic room-mates.

Well even if they are boyfriend/girlfriend, or co-fiances, they can still live together, in the same room, in the same bed.

 

[handy]

Well even if they are boyfriend/girlfriend, or co-fiances, they can still live together, in the same room, in the same bed.

Yep... because so many men and women sleep together in the same bed on a nightly basis and don't have sex. Especially when they are in love with each other enough to get married. I can only applaud them... I admit to not having that much self control!

 

[Free]

Whoa, so you're saying the Bible isn't being specific on the things it instructs for us, rather providing generalities so we can live a Christ-like life? I know that's not what you meant.

No, that is not what I am saying. The Bible gives us enough regarding moral issues that it need not be specific about all issues. The issues it does address are meant to change our way of thinking about all moral issues so that we know what is right and what is wrong. The Bible therefore need not address all moral issues.

The point being, arguing to silence is often not a very good argument.

I know Jesus never dated, married, courted, fornicated, co-habitated, divorced or got in a fist fight with anyone, which makes it hard for those of us who have to have a specific role model. We also don't have a record of his teenage years, which (as we all know) are the most volatile, rebellious yet defining part of our lives. Hard to be an example on specific life issues when we don't have our Lord doing it first.

Jesus need not have modeled a certain behaviour or response to a certain temptation for us in order to know whether or not something is right.

 

[highlife]

You don't believe that living together before marriage = fornication?



Are you implying that Jesus may very well have sinned?

As for Jesus never dating, marrying, fornicating, etc... and being a model... for a unbeliever, no He could never be a role model...

But, for those born of the Spirit... most certainly He is a role model. One must be born-again though.



Since when did we start talking about weddings? Weddings are not necessarily what constitutes legal marriage. Certainly now, in America, weddings are not necessary at all... a simple trip to the court for a marriage license, couple of questions from the JOP and signatures and two are legally married. If the couple want to have a big church wedding, or a destination wedding, whatever...but no one is married legally until and unless they get the license and sign it witnessed by a legally recognized officiant.

What the Bible does show specific examples of is that marriage was more than just living together... marriage involved going to the bride's family, having them recognize the union, usually involved a dowry of some sorts... and the community recognized it as a legal marriage as opposed to the woman being the man's concubine.

Concubines are the biblical example of people living together without marriage. Concubines had limited legal rights, but were in no way considered wives. God never instituted the practice of keeping concubines, just as He didn't institute the practice of divorce. The New Testament has no provision for the practice of keeping a concubine within the Church... none. The New Testament only recognizes marriage, only refers to a husband and a wife (one man/one woman), and we are told to keep the marriage bed holy. There is no mention anywhere in the New Testament of any man being able to have more than one wife or keep concubines. There is, however, many mentions regarding marriage as being between one man and one woman. Had the practice of polygamy and keeping concubines been widely accepted within the New Testament, surly it would have been referred to, instead of the very pointed references to one man/one woman marriage. "Let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband." 1 Corinthians 7:2

The NT also says the OT is useful for teaching and that Jesus did not come to change the OT law. Or does that only apply when its usful for the church to control its population. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, if it was not condemed in the OT then surely its not sinful in the NT otherwise the standard of sin has changed and that makes God look wishy washy which I do not agree with. God is not wishy washy, it is the modern church that is wishy washy.

 

[farouk]

The NT also says the OT is useful for teaching and that Jesus did not come to change the OT law. Or does that only apply when its usful for the church to control its population.

h:

I don't think you are engaging seriously with the Bible's teachings.

 

[ExtraMedium]

Jesus need not have modeled a certain behaviour or response to a certain temptation for us in order to know whether or not something is right.

I still think his teenage years were left out on purpose. I mean, how do you lose the Son of Man for so many of those volatile years? Either that or while being canonized, stories of those years were omitted because it was in contradiction to how early Christians wanted to portray Jesus for future generations.

And if he were to meet a woman, court her, marry her, then none of us would have any questions about a successful, sinless marriage/relationship. I think Jesus decided not to date/court/engage/marry on purpose because of how times and customs change, and so that we may each determine the right way to do these things, while still honoring Him.

 

[Free]

I still think his teenage years were left out on purpose. I mean, how do you lose the Son of Man for so many of those volatile years? Either that or while being canonized, stories of those years were omitted because it was in contradiction to how early Christians wanted to portray Jesus for future generations.

And if he were to meet a woman, court her, marry her, then none of us would have any questions about a successful, sinless marriage/relationship. I think Jesus decided not to date/court/engage/marry on purpose because of how times and customs change, and so that we may each determine the right way to do these things, while still honoring Him.

It is utterly pointless to speculate about Jesus' teenage years. The Bible says he was tempted in every way we are and yet was without sin. That's all we need to know about his early life. Jesus likely didn't marry because that was not his purpose and likely would have hindered his purpose.

 

[theLords]

I recognize that you're a babe in Christ, but if you knew he Bible, you would know that when Christ ascended into heaven, He left this world betrothed.

I still think his teenage years were left out on purpose. I mean, how do you lose the Son of Man for so many of those volatile years? Either that or while being canonized, stories of those years were omitted because it was in contradiction to how early Christians wanted to portray Jesus for future generations.

And if he were to meet a woman, court her, marry her, then none of us would have any questions about a successful, sinless marriage/relationship. I think Jesus decided not to date/court/engage/marry on purpose because of how times and customs change, and so that we may each determine the right way to do these things, while still honoring Him.

 

[handy]

The NT also says the OT is useful for teaching and that Jesus did not come to change the OT law. Or does that only apply when its usful for the church to control its population. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, if it was not condemed in the OT then surely its not sinful in the NT otherwise the standard of sin has changed and that makes God look wishy washy which I do not agree with. God is not wishy washy, it is the modern church that is wishy washy.

Several things here: Yes, Jesus did not come to change the OT law... He came to fulfill it. Which He did, and died. Once He died, the Old Covenant died with Him. Romans and Hebrews deals with how Jesus' death on the cross impacted the Old Covenant with it's many laws and statutes.

The standard of sin hasn't changed... I remember mentioning to you once before...in all the posts, it's more than understandable if you missed it... that things happened in the Old Testament that were not part of God's will...divorce being the most clear, because Jesus dealt with the subject. Just because Jesus didn't stand up and condemn certain sins doesn't mean that it was OK. He didn't condemn the woman who committed adultery and I'm sure we can agree that adultery is indeed sin.

(And, what is good for the gander has never been OK for the goose. Look all you want and the OT is only about what is good for men... not women. Men could have any amount of wives and concubines... a woman could only have one husband... sharing him with others if he had multiple wives/concubines. Women could be given a certificate of divorce and made to leave... but a woman couldn't leave a marriage on her own. And, if a woman was handed a piece of paper and sent back to her father's home... she could never marry again without committing adultery)

 

[ExtraMedium]

I recognize that you're a babe in Christ, but if you knew the Bible, you would know that when Christ ascended into heaven, He left this world betrothed.

Yes, that is true and am familiar with it. But Christ being betrothed to the world and a man being betrothed to a single woman is different in terms of setting an example for future generations.

My original question could be restated like this: Thwarting the sin of pre-marital fornication was simpler in biblical times because potential sinners could get married in early teen years. How would this compare to modern-day society when the average age of marriage is well into our 20s if not 30s. Or for those who remarry? Still remain virgins, cohabiting separately until married?

 

[handy]

One thing about remaining single until I was 38... I knew that Jesus understood a lot of what I was going through because He remained single for 33 years.

I agree that modern society put ridiculous pressure on young people making them wait so long for marriage.

But, nonetheless, unless one does get married, one must remain abstinent. Jesus fully understands how hard this is... but if He can do it by the Spirit, then so can we.

 

[felix]

Does anyone have a good resource, book, website with credible historic information regarding marriage around the time of Christ? My pastor (and many others) say that "back then" it wasn't uncommon to have 12-15yo's getting married. Okay... where does it say this?

Are there other historical books or references which depict married life back in the day?

I'm trying to explain some of these things to my 12yo and can't find any resources.

thanks!

I don't rely on any books for truth except the bible.

(Song 8:8) We have a little sister, And she has no breasts. What shall we do for our sister In the day when she is spoken for?

Marriage is been pre-arranged even before she attains for puberty.

While the actual meaning for this verse refers to a church which cannot satisfy her husband, our Lord, it also reflects the culture of ancient days which are not wrong and sometime odd when viewed from modern culture glasses.