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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study Matt. 25;46
- Thread starter humble soul
- Start date
I'd say that atheists don't even BELIEVE in the lake of fire.
But I agree that this motivates no one.
That's true, they don't believe at this time. And I'm convinced that even if they knew there was, they would not come to God. They may not want hell. But neither do they want God.
I do believe eternal hell or the lake of fire does motivate the people of God.
Quantrill
Maybe.
Everyone has their own motivation.
I'm motivated by the guidance God has given me and by His love for His creation.
I don't think about hell much except when writing on this forum.
Philippians 4:8
8Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
9The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.
I understand.
And, you needn't think about hell, as you are not going there, as you are of God. A child of God.
My comments were to those who are going there. Who are not of God. Never were a child of God.
Note (Luke 16:19-31). The rich man in hell asked some questions of Abraham. But he never asked for help from God. Never asked for forgiveness of his sins. Never sought any form of repentance. He didn't like where he was, but he wasn't seeking God.
That is the true nature of those who reject Jesus Christ. To be with God would be 'hell' for them. They would rather have the fire for eternity than be with God.
Thus, neither hell or the lake of fire ever influences them.
Quantrill
Some of those people are good company. Know how to enjoy life and have fun. Whereas Heaven might be full of dull partypoopers.
A word of explanation on my part.
When I said 'hell' motivates the people of God, I am viewing the people of God before they are saved...while they are lost. I say that because I believe the people of God and those not of God is already set at their physical birth.
Those who are of God, are the lost. They are lost because they are the people of God yet born into a fallen race and so are separated from God.
Those who are not of God, are not lost. They never belonged to God. The world is their home.
Who the lost, (the child of God), are is of course known only to God, until they are saved. Thus we witness to all.
When we witness, if we are speaking to one who is not of God, then there is no interest on their part. But if we are speaking to one who is of God, but lost, the Gospel resonates with them. Hell can be a motivator. The love of God can be a motivator. The things of God will motivate the people of God.
Quantrill
Agreed.
And Luke 16 is one of my favorite passages because it explains so much of the afterlife.
This is an interesting post.
I've never heard of salvation being spoken of in this way.
We witness because faith comes by hearing the word of God.
Then the person can believe or not believe.
Because God knows the future....He does not cause the future.
I lean more toward God knowing the future because He controls the future.
Concerning the salvation of individuals, I believe it is because He knows them. He knows who they are. He knows His people. Here it is not so much that He knows the future events as He knows them. They are of Him.
For example, the idea that we were 'lost' indicates previous ownership. You see this in (Luke 15:1-10) And Jesus definitely came to save that which was 'lost'. (Matt. 18:11) And it appears to me that Jesus will succeed in this. (Luke 15:8) "till she find it"
The story of the Prodigal Son speaks to the same. The son never quit being the fathers son. But he was dead, and lost to the Father. (Luke 15:24) (15:32) And note the Father's constant watch looking for the lost son. (Luke 15:20) "when he was a great way off, his father saw him"
And there are a couple of verses in (Jer. 31:20-21) that compare to the story of the Prodigal Son. In (20) Ephraim is called God's son. And God is troubled over His sons wayward ways, just as the father in the Prodigal son was. And God is calling him back looking from the same direction that he went. (21) "set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest"
There is more that can be said, but this post is getting too long. But I think it is enough to show that this opinion is based upon Scripture.
Quantrill
God knows the future.
But what do you mean by "He controls the future"?
Do you mean that nothing happens that God does not approve of,
or do you mean that HE makes every little thing happen just the way He want it to?
You are absolutely right on.
We were formerly owned by satan and were under his power. Ephesians 2:2
Even if we didn't do any dastardly deeds...our soul/spirit still belonged to the evil one.
Jesus came to save that which was lost and those that are His know His voice. John 10:27
Quantrill
I'm a bit confused as to which opinion of yours is based on scripture.
In the story of the Prodigal son...Jesus says that the son was lost but then is found again.
The son states that he is no longer worthy to be called A SON....
Luke 15:21
21“And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
Then Jesus says that the son was DEAD, but has come to life AGAIN....
Luke 15:24
; 24for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
Edward
2024 Supporter
This is right on the money Brother. I agree. I don't have enough love within me to go sell off all that I own and give it to the poor, but I do help people a lot more than I used to.
Concerning God's control of the future consider the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. When was He slain in the plan of God? From the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8) And God knows all His works from the beginning of the world. (Acts 15:18)
Was the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ a 'reaction' from God or was it always the plan of God? Of course it was God's plan. To say God 'reacted' to what He knew to be future, but He did not control the future, makes the future out of His control. God never 'reacts'. He 'acts'. To us who are marching through history, of course it has all appearance of God reacting, but all is controlled by Him. When God asked Adam 'where art thou', (Gen. 3:9), did He really not know? Of course He knew. But this work of God must be played out.
It is difficult to say or imagine everything is under the control of God. But, it is difficult to imagine that God knows every hair of everyone. (Luke 12:7) So, yes, God controls the future. To say God just knows the future, makes the future out of control by God.
My opinion which I say is based upon Scripture is that men when they are born physically into this life are already known by God to be be His children or children of the world and satan. Those who are known by God to be His children are the ones who are lost. The children of the world and satan are never lost as they are at home in the world which satan is the prince of. They were never children of God and will never be children of God. They are in conflict with God and His people, but they are not lost to God as they were never His.
Consider this verse. (John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." Jesus didn't say you are not of my sheep because you don't believe...which is how we usually read it. He said you don't believe because you are not mine.
Also this verse. (John 8:47) "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." Same thing. Jesus doesn't say if you would just believe you would hear God's words. He says you don't hear because you are not of God.
In other words, we who are Christians, believers, were never children of satan even when we were lost. We were children of wrath, due to being lost. We were servants of sin and satan and the world, due to being lost. We in our lost state were still of God and because of that, when we heard the Gospel we responded to our Father.
This is what I believe the story of the Prodigal Son pictures.
Quantrill
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:2-8
Key Verse:
- But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
We are to add to out faith virtue. Because His life and power are working in us, we have the ability to change, to become vessels of honor, by the power of His Spirit motivating and empowering us to practice these righteous things.
Sadly, these things are not taught in most of today’s Churches.
JLB
The lost in these parables, refers to followers of Christ, who wander away from Him, and become lost.
“Lost” indicates one belonged to the Lord, but left Him and became lost. The follower of Christ who becomes lost must return to Him, and be reconciled back to Him or remain as a sinner; a lost soul.
JLB
Edward
2024 Supporter
I can't agree that the Lord causes things to happen because He knew it would happen from the foundation of the world and planned on it to happen, but because He knew that man would be disobedient and fall if He put us into this environment with free will and He didn't want to violate that. So He knew that His Sons death would then be necessary to be able to bring His children back into the flock.
And God does not always get everything He wants. and no one was condemned to death and not be one of His children from the foundation of the world.
Because, it is written, God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance.
So? Where did I say the Lord causes things to happen because He knew it would happen?
God always gets what He wants.
Quantrill
Edward
2024 Supporter
It was in post 34
It is difficult to say or imagine everything is under the control of God. But, it is difficult to imagine that God knows every hair of everyone. (Luke 12:7) So, yes, God controls the future. To say God just knows the future, makes the future out of control by God.
And when people turn away from God of their own choosing, then God does not always get what He wants. We are created in the image of God and every ne of us are as unique as a fingerprint. Havung been created to fill a specific place within His heart that no one else could possibly fill. Each Brothers walk and experiences are slightly different enabling them to do the specific task that He has for them in His plan for their life. When people turn from this, God will not have that specific spot in His heart filled and no one else is able to fill that spot in His heart. So God does not always get what He wants.
Or do we throw out the verse which says, the Lord is not willing that any should perish...?