Mormonism

[Barbara Allan]

Barbara,
You haven't been exposed to Mormonism like that in the Salt Lake Valley. You just haven't seen first hand what it's capable of doing. Data-mining on the net isn't going to give you any of that experience. You can argue your opinion all you like but you're not going to convince those who have had experience with the LDS church that mormonism isn't a cult. Outside it's influence is a whole different world. And that world just can't fathom the power of the animal and it's propensity to bite. No way.

One thing I noticed is the Christian churches under it's shadow don't bicker about liberties anywhere near as much as they do outside it's circle of influence. There's a lot more attention given to the essentials of Christianity within those churches and for good reason... survival.

There is a lot of work put forth from those Christian churches in outreach programs and programs to aid those who have lost just about everything coming out of Mormonism. These programs offer compassion, comfort and support usually headed by those who have come out of the LDS church. Many of these people are those who have held high positions within the Mormon church. They know it, lived it, know what goes on behind closed doors and have seen what it can do first hand. Understanding the people, the culture of Mormonism in the valley and the nature of the hold the church has on it's members there is the prime directive, not bashing someone over the head with a bible.

I can understand that. And it is the same for ex-fundamentalists is other places.

 

[Barbara Allan]

[quote="Barbara Allan":64419]... And I will say this about fundamentalist Christians calling the LDS a cult: that is a mighty ironic example of the pot calling the kettle black. When things happen at right-wing churches like members doing interventions in 2004 with other members supporting John Kerry, and on message boards like this one where right-wing fundamentalists make innuendoes those with whom they disagree are "not Christians" it takes a lotta gall to call Mormons a cult. If you want to see a cult look in the freaking mirror.

OK, you had your fun and got your stabs in for now. I'm warning you, NO MORE, PLEASE! You have at least two ex-mormons here telling things you just don't want to hear. That's unfortunate. Plus you accuse the conservative believers here of name calling, then turn around and do the same to them. That's hypocrisy by most definitions.

The constant denial of facts set before you and the bashing of everyone that you disagree with stops now. Go the extra mile and believe what those educated, in the ways of the Mormons, tell you.[/quote:64419]

I know how right-wing fundamentalists treat people, too.

 

[Veritas]

I know how right-wing fundamentalists treat people, too.

forgive.

 

[waitinontheLamb]

[quote="vic C.":c09e8][quote="Barbara Allan":c09e8]... And I will say this about fundamentalist Christians calling the LDS a cult: that is a mighty ironic example of the pot calling the kettle black. When things happen at right-wing churches like members doing interventions in 2004 with other members supporting John Kerry, and on message boards like this one where right-wing fundamentalists make innuendoes those with whom they disagree are "not Christians" it takes a lotta gall to call Mormons a cult. If you want to see a cult look in the freaking mirror.

OK, you had your fun and got your stabs in for now. I'm warning you, NO MORE, PLEASE! You have at least two ex-mormons here telling things you just don't want to hear. That's unfortunate. Plus you accuse the conservative believers here of name calling, then turn around and do the same to them. That's hypocrisy by most definitions.

The constant denial of facts set before you and the bashing of everyone that you disagree with stops now. Go the extra mile and believe what those educated, in the ways of the Mormons, tell you.[/quote:c09e8]

I know how right-wing fundamentalists treat people, too.[/quote:c09e8]
As a right wing, fundamentalist, Bible believing, God fearing, Abortion hating, defender of truth against heretical teaching, I must say thank you for opening up the opportunity to say how WE treat people.

I for one, because I love Jesus and His truth, love people enough to call a spade a spade. When I see people heading to hell in their religious ignorance or arrogance (whichever it may be) as I once was, I love them enough to call it what it is and tell them the dangers of their impending fall.

Others though seem so unloving that they will just gather in a bearhug any and all who say they are Christian regardless of how off base from the teachings of the Bible they truly are.

No, Barbara, it is not fundies that are the problem. It is those who adopt the embrace the world philosophy and never offend attitude that are the hateful ones.

If you saw a blind man heading for a cliff, would you tell him he was heading for death or just go give him a hug and tell him any path he wants is valid? Which would be loving, Barbara?

 

[waitinontheLamb]

Do they hold guns to people's heads?

No need for guns.

They turn your family against you. You are disowned.
They turn your friends against you. You are alone.
They turn your neighbors against you. You are exiled.
If your spouse becomes Christian they will advice divorce.

Holding everything dear to you over your head why would you need a gun?

Curtis,
Am I off-target here?

You are right on target.

When I left the mormon church, my wife was "counseled" by the "bishop" to divorce me, as I would not be a priesthood holder or be able to take her to the celestial kingdom.

She struggled with this decision, but in the end decided to follow the church and divorced me. It was easier to end a marriage and be embraced by the ward then to stand strong and be ostracized by them all.

I lost a wife, stepchildren (who I am not even allowed to visit), friends, extended family, etc.

But I gained Jesus. Seems a fair trade.

And today I am re-married to a wonderful God fearing Christian woman.

Thank you Lord.

 

[Barbara Allan]

As a right wing, fundamentalist, Bible believing, God fearing, Abortion hating, defender of truth against heretical teaching, I must say thank you for opening up the opportunity to say how WE treat people.

I for one, because I love Jesus and His truth, love people enough to call a spade a spade. When I see people heading to hell in their religious ignorance or arrogance (whichever it may be) as I once was, I love them enough to call it what it is and tell them the dangers of their impending fall.

Others though seem so unloving that they will just gather in a bearhug any and all who say they are Christian regardless of how off base from the teachings of the Bible they truly are.

No, Barbara, it is not fundies that are the problem. It is those who adopt the embrace the world philosophy and never offend attitude that are the hateful ones.

If you saw a blind man heading for a cliff, would you tell him he was heading for death or just go give him a hug and tell him any path he wants is valid? Which would be loving, Barbara?

I can't grok that. It appears based on a lot of premises I don't share.

Religious Fundamentalism in America has allied itself with plutocracy and militarism in its quest for power. There is no greater example of "embracing the world" than that.

BTW you are in no position whatsoever to know what is "truth" and what is not. As a very wise wag once said, "Trust the man who seeks the truth; beware of the man who claims to have found it."

 

[Rick W]

When I left the mormon church, my wife was "counseled" by the "bishop" to divorce me, as I would not be a priesthood holder or be able to take her to the celestial kingdom.

She struggled with this decision, but in the end decided to follow the church and divorced me. It was easier to end a marriage and be embraced by the ward then to stand strong and be ostracized by them all.

I lost a wife, stepchildren (who I am not even allowed to visit), friends, extended family, etc.

Ah man. I didn't know.
Hey, I didn't mean to bring up bad memories or anything.
I'm sorry to hear that. :

And today I am re-married to a wonderful God fearing Christian woman.

Thank you Lord.

:smt023

How did you come to Calvary Chapel?

 

[Vic C.]

Oh Curtis, .

One has to scratch their heads looking for a Biblical precedent for that reason for divorce. :-?

Praise God for your newfound love and pray he blesses the marriage. :angel:

 

[waitinontheLamb]

BTW you are in no position whatsoever to know what is "truth" and what is not. As a very wise wag once said, "Trust the man who seeks the truth; beware of the man who claims to have found it."

And it is probably even more imperative that we beware of those who so ignorantly assume themselves wise enough to not need to listen to those with the experience. You come in here, spout off about things you have no idea about and then cry about my not knowing truth in the matter.

Oh well. Some would rather wallow in their slough of ignorance then consider they don't have the answers someone else has gotten through years of life experience. And it is this very reason your quote blows up in your face. You refuse to seek truth because you have duped yourself into believing you have it.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[waitinontheLamb]

Oh Curtis, .

One has to scratch their heads looking for a Biblical precedent for that reason for divorce. :-?

Praise God for your newfound love and pray he blesses the marriage. :angel:

He has placed His hand on it so abundantly. More then I could ever deserve.

Thanks for your kind words.

 

[waitinontheLamb]

When I left the mormon church, my wife was "counseled" by the "bishop" to divorce me, as I would not be a priesthood holder or be able to take her to the celestial kingdom.

She struggled with this decision, but in the end decided to follow the church and divorced me. It was easier to end a marriage and be embraced by the ward then to stand strong and be ostracized by them all.

I lost a wife, stepchildren (who I am not even allowed to visit), friends, extended family, etc.

Ah man. I didn't know.
Hey, I didn't mean to bring up bad memories or anything.
I'm sorry to hear that. :

And today I am re-married to a wonderful God fearing Christian woman.

Thank you Lord.

:smt023

How did you come to Calvary Chapel?

Oh, it's okay. The memories are bad but they are resolved. I see God using these things meant by lucifer for evil and for my good and for His glory.

I was part of Calvary Chapel for a while before falling back into mormonism. My pastor prayed for me the whole time I was backslidden and now I am back.

 

[Barbara Allan]

BTW you are in no position whatsoever to know what is "truth" and what is not. As a very wise wag once said, "Trust the man who seeks the truth; beware of the man who claims to have found it."

And it is probably even more imperative that we beware of those who so ignorantly assume themselves wise enough to not need to listen to those with the experience. You come in here, spout off about things you have no idea about and then cry about my not knowing truth in the matter.

Oh well. Some would rather wallow in their slough of ignorance then consider they don't have the answers someone else has gotten through years of life experience. And it is this very reason your quote blows up in your face. You refuse to seek truth because you have duped yourself into believing you have it.

Ignorance is bliss.

Right. Anybody can claim to be oppressed by a church and the in-crowds at those churches will just say '[he, she, they] just didn't have enough faith.' By some measures Calvary Chapel is a cult, controlled by a charismatic preacher with fuzzy doctrine.

 

[Rick W]

lol
I can guarantee you pastor Terry Long is no "charismatic preacher with fuzzy doctrine."
:
You don't even know the man. I do. Personally. And so does Curtis.


Enough is enough Barbara. The attacks must stop now.

 

[waitinontheLamb]

lol
I can guarantee you pastor Terry Long is no "charismatic preacher with fuzzy doctrine."
:
You don't even know the man. I do. Personally. And so does Curtis.


Enough is enough Barbara. The attacks must stop now.

Yeah, Terry is a great man of God. He is one of the few men I know that has managed to preach utmost truth, dealing with sin, judgment, and wrath while still hanging onto the wonder of God's grace, mercy, and love.

It is a great, Biblical balance. He is a mentor, a shepherd, and I am glad to say, my friend who has stood by me in my falls and needs prayer and support as he deals with the evil of these days.

 

[Veritas]

As a very wise wag once said, "Trust the man who seeks the truth; beware of the man who claims to have found it."

Wise by the standards of this world... What of the man who claims to be the embodiement of Truth?

 

[Biblereader]

This is why there are programs such as "Bridges" sponsored by a church I used to attend. You're taught what it means to be mormon and what the consequences can be for an LDS member choosing a christian path. It's nothing at all like what we know around the rest of the country.
waitinontheLamb knows the experience, he's been there, done that, like so many others whose testimonies I've heard face-to-face concerning this. It's heart-breaking.

How did you find "bridges"?

It DOES sound heart breaking,because the mormons are perverting the gospel of Christ, and misrepresenting Christianity, terribly.

Even to the point of causing outsiders to lump all Christians under the same label.

 

[Biblereader]

No, Barbara, it is not fundies that are the problem. It is those who adopt the embrace the world philosophy and never offend attitude that are the hateful ones.

If you saw a blind man heading for a cliff, would you tell him he was heading for death or just go give him a hug and tell him any path he wants is valid? Which would be loving, Barbara?

Barbara, this really is a fair and good point he's making.
I remember when I was outside of Jesus, and a man walked up to me, in a public park, and gave me
a tract. At the time, I thought he was an idiot, I really laughed at him, and felt uncomfortable around him, but,
today, I THANK GOD for that man's perserverence, and ability to overcome his nervousness about spreading the Good News, and giving me that tract.
I also used to mock and scream obscenities at women who would picket outside of abortion clinics.
Driving by, on purpose, just to make fun of them.

It all changed, after I asked Jesus to come into my heart and make Himself real to me.
It really did.
What I used to love, I hated, and what I used to hate, I loved, and learned how to love even more.
Barbara, the people who hurt your feelings might have been not as close to Jesus as they should have been.
Whatever the case, and you don't have to explain unless you want to, you're talking, NOW, to Christians who really DO care about you, and who love you in a sisterly and brotherly way, in here.
I hope you stay in here, and begin to see that.
Sure, we get passionate about our beliefs, what person would NOT?
Ever see a Packers Fan? :crazyeyes:
They just LOVE their team, and go nuts at games.
Nothing wrong with showing enthusiasm!
Ever hear a Packers Fan defend their team? ha ha!
Nothing wrong with standing up to a person who opposes you, and letting them know the
facts about your beliefs.

 

[Biblereader]

As a very wise wag once said, "Trust the man who seeks the truth; beware of the man who claims to have found it."

The seeker eventually finds the truth. If he seeks it diligently, and I would say many in here have sought, and found, the Truth, diligently.

 

[Biblereader]

Yes, I had a traumatic event; it was called the Junior Bush Administration.

Stepping out on a limb here, I'm going to trust you, Barbara, that your experience with the Junior Bush Admin was part of the problem you have with Christians.

So, since you laid this card on the table, please give details, and tell me what this is all about.

 

[Rick W]

"Bridges" was the name of the program at Calvary Chapel in Salt Lake at the time I was attending.

Most of the harm done is that once someone realizes the deception and quits mormonism it leaves such a bad taste that they won't trust any religion anymore no matter what it is. Since the LDS church has betrayed them then they trust nothing or nobody.