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JLB said:
Eugene said:
JLB said:
Originally Posted by Eugene
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Yes, I agree it is the Father's will that none should perish, but that all may come to repentance.
Click to expand...
Dear brother, wouldn't you agree that it is Jesus doing the keeping, it is Jesus that isn't going to fail accomplishing our Father's will by losing even one of us, and it is Jesus that will in no wise cast us out?
Click to expand...

Didn't Judas choose to obey the sinful desire for money, rather than God, even though it was God's will that Jesus would not lose any?

What was it that kept Peter from being sifted as wheat? What did Jesus specifically pray for Peter, so that He did not go the way of Judas.

... That his faith would not fail.


JLB
Click to expand...

You will need to take the time to quote & place scripture if you want an answer! (or are you to lazy?)
But the reason why? Was that Christ already knew the answer for His prayer!

Again: God knows who will be safe to save... BUT THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION OF WHAT GOD KNEW & KNOWS! (Check Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse)

If you are not... (forget that one!)

--Elijah
 
Give it up with all of your other false teachings of Immortal sinners burning in hell ETERNALLY!
Malachi 4:1-4!

--Elijah
 
Elijah674 said:
JLB said:
Eugene said:
JLB said:
Originally Posted by Eugene
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Yes, I agree it is the Father's will that none should perish, but that all may come to repentance.
Click to expand...
Dear brother, wouldn't you agree that it is Jesus doing the keeping, it is Jesus that isn't going to fail accomplishing our Father's will by losing even one of us, and it is Jesus that will in no wise cast us out?
Click to expand...

Didn't Judas choose to obey the sinful desire for money, rather than God, even though it was God's will that Jesus would not lose any?

What was it that kept Peter from being sifted as wheat? What did Jesus specifically pray for Peter, so that He did not go the way of Judas.

... That his faith would not fail.


JLB
Click to expand...

You will need to take the time to quote & place scripture if you want an answer! (or are you to lazy?)
But the reason why? Was that Christ already knew the answer for His prayer!

Again: God knows who will be safe to save... BUT THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION OF WHAT GOD KNEW & KNOWS! (Check Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse)

If you are not... (forget that one!)

--Elijah
Click to expand...

The requirment for Peter to remain in a position of Salvation was Faith.

That is the point.

That is the undeniable truth.


JLB
 
JLB said:
Didn't Judas choose to obey the sinful desire for money, rather than God, even though it was God's will that Jesus would not lose any?
Click to expand...
Hi JLB, scripture below pointing to the betrayal of Jesus show that Jesus lost none that weren't prophesied, and that so scripture might be fulfilled. Did Judas have a choice? I think so but these due to foreknowledge were known unto God and thus planned for, written of, and executed.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition (or destruction); that the scripture might be fulfilled. Is there another son of perdition mentioned? 2 Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

Zech 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Zech 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
 
Eugene said:
Hi JLB, scripture below pointing to the betrayal of Jesus show that Jesus lost none that weren't prophesied,
Click to expand...

Of course God knew from the foundation of the world that Judas would betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

God saw the end from the beginning.

God saw the choice Judas would make.

Gad saw Jesus crucified from the foundation of the world.

God saw the choice Jesus would make, for it was prophesied in the Law, and the Prophets and the Psalms.

Never the less, both Jesus and Judas made a choice from the own free will.

That is why Jesus prayed for Peter, that his faith would not fail, because Peter could have been sifted by Satan because Peter had already denied the Lord, three times.

It was Peter's faith that sustained him in the end.

Peter chose to believe, repent and be restored.



JLB
 
Tit 1:2 In the hope of eternal life, which God, Who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,

Heb 6:17-18 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.

Num 23:19 “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent; has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?”

1Jo 2:25 This is the promise, which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
 
gr8grace said:
we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.
Click to expand...

...to take hold of the hope set before us.

Which is identical to what Colossians 1:23 says -

23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

We are encouraged to "take hold of the hope" and to be "not moved away from the hope of the Gospel"


gr8grace said:
1Jo 2:25 This is the promise, which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
Click to expand...

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life. 26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 1 John 2:24-26


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


JLB
 
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26)

We went through the word "are" which is eimi in the Greek already.

The verb “are” in the Greek is eime which is an absolute status quo verb and means it will always be this way. The verb’s mood in the Greek is a mood of reality and means you always keep on being sons of God (i.e., eternal security).
 
Being born again at the moment you believe in Christ you are a new creature CREATED by God. That new creature is stated to be imperishable. Imperishable is Imperishable. We cannot add "if" or "but" to imperishable.

Being a new spiritual creature is a vital part of eternal security. The word for created is ktisthenta, which is the aorist passive participle of ktizo, and means to create something out of nothing. It suggests something brand new, something brought into being that did not previously exist. The new creature is not by any means a gradual improvement of Adam, i.e., the old man or old sin nature. It is, instead, a brand new creation from God.

1PE 1:23 for you have been born again not of which is perishable but imperishable, through the living and enduring Word of God.
 
JLB said:
gr8grace said:
That new creature is stated to be imperishable
Click to expand...

Please show the scripture.



gr8grace said:
Imperishable is Imperishable. We cannot add "if" or "but" to imperishable.
Click to expand...

I guess that what burning forever means, you just keep burning since you are imperishable.


JLB
Click to expand...

JLB God bless you but I will not respond to any more of your posts. This is just beyond any discussion for you or me.

Scripture you want.......In my post.

If you really want to say that we are BORN AGAIN by God HIMSELF so we are imperishable to just keep burning. Yeah all fruit from discussion is gone.

God bless my friend.
 
Eugene said:
JLB said:
The point being, Lucifer was at one time a son of God, and technically still is.
Click to expand...
The only ones I know of that believe that is Mormons. Where in scripture do you see that?
Click to expand...

12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. 16 "Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms, Isaiah 14:12-16

I thought the only people who didn't believe that was the Jehovah's Witness's.

This is also a reference to him, although he is not called Lucifer here. -


11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. 16 "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. 17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you. 18 "You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you. 19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." 'Ezekiel 28:11-19


This is a prophecy against him as spoken through Ezekiel the Prophet.

The first part of the word is against the prince of Tyre, then shifts to the ruler or King of Tyre, who is believed to have been the "unseen" power behind that prince.



JLB
 
Created? Lucifer wasn't born a son of God?
JLB said:
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
Click to expand...
Created? Lucifer wasn't born a son of God? In many ways similar to Adam, but Adam had blood shed for him providing a covering. Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. They were born of God in Christ at that time.

Such is not the case for Lucifer as we see in Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God. Did he believe on the Lord Jesus? If not he sure was not a son.

As to Jehovah Witnesses they too believe Jesus was created just as Mormons do. It ain't so for He is Jehovah. Isa 40:3.
 
gr8grace said:
Being born again at the moment you believe in Christ you are a new creature CREATED by God. That new creature is stated to be imperishable. Imperishable is Imperishable. We cannot add "if" or "but" to imperishable.

Being a new spiritual creature is a vital part of eternal security. The word for created is ktisthenta, which is the aorist passive participle of ktizo, and means to create something out of nothing. It suggests something brand new, something brought into being that did not previously exist. The new creature is not by any means a gradual improvement of Adam, i.e., the old man or old sin nature. It is, instead, a brand new creation from God.

1PE 1:23 for you have been born again not of which is perishable but imperishable, through the living and enduring Word of God.
Click to expand...

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ [and he is], [he is] a new creature [spiritual species]; the old things passed away [lost their power]; behold, new things [invisible assets plus the predesigned plan of God] have come.

kaine ktisis [new spiritual species]

1Pet 1:23 for you have been born again(Spiritual species) not of which is perishable but imperishable, through the living and enduring Word of God.
 
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