How do you pronounce that? Do we know Who is being referred to when when Jesus is spelled in upper case letters of LORD in Isaiah 40:3? Was Jesus created too? No, He is God and as to OSAS He will in no wise cast us out (John 6:37), nor lose one of us but raise us up the last day (John 6:39).
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
OSAS is biblical truth.
- Thread starter gr8grace
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Brother Mike
Guest
imperishable is not found in the KJV. The Amplified does a good job in breaking down the Greek and used the Word 5 times. 4 times in reference to our new bodies, and once in Peter about the inheritance of a believer. The word is never applied to "Born again" or once born again it's impossible to perish in hell.
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, (Condition) the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Here we have a condition to not have ones name removed from the book of life. We have a condition, a reward and a consequence for not overcoming (Doing the plan of God)
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Here is another condition, to deny Jesus after making him Lord before men. Peter did this and it was a big deal so much that the Lord came to Peter and asked him if He loved him.
Getting born again, serving God for a long time then coming to the place of you denying Jesus for whatever reason before men puts you in a position to get your named removed from the book of life.
JLB asked for scriptures, if you realize you don't have any and and making things up you should correct that thinking. I gave two places where it's possible to get denied before the Father. I can give more but OSAS is false teaching or the scriptures must be wrong.
Mike.
Well, it was just a term as God being the author of the angels used only a few times in the OT that Angels were refereed to as the sons of God. The reference as you know was not denoting actual children but God being the source, creator (Father of something) the angels.
Mike.
Being that the word angel is interpreted "Messenger", does it mean all messengers are created angels? Do you have scripture stating that a created angel is referred to as a son of God? Thanks.
1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:1-4
Sons of God is a reference to angels.
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5
and again -
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 1 Peter 3:18-20
and again -
Note the context here. Saved His people out of Egypt, then later destroyed WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE, [which means didn't obey].
Likened this very action to the angels who were disobedient and did not keep their proper domain, but corrupted the seed of men.
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; Jude 5-6
OSAS is as false a doctrine as there ever was!!!!
JLB
B
Brother Mike
Guest
Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Dan_3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
AMP:
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons (the angels) of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan (the adversary and accuser) also came among them.(2)
MSG:
Job 1:6 One day when the angels came to report to GOD, Satan, who was the Designated Accuser, came along with them
NLT:
Job 1:6 One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan the Accuser came with them.
The Angels did not keep their first Estate Eugene but came unto men and corrupted their offspring. God did not spare the angels but reserved some for everlasting punishment. If God did not spare the angles then we need to keep on the path and do what we are called to do in all obedience.
Mike.
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Messenger
Member
JLB; said:
LORD; Yehovah
Jehovah = "the existing One"
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3068&t=KJV
Thanks messenger, and I had forgotten that.
The Jewish Encyclopedia:
“Jehovah — a mispronunciation of the Hebrew YHWH the name of G-d. This pronunciation is grammatically impossible.”
(“Jehovah,” The Jewish Encyclopedia, vol. 7, 1904 ed.)
The New Jewish Encyclopedia:
“It is clear that the word Jehovah is an artificial composite.”
(“Jehovah,” The New Jewish Encyclopedia, 1962 ed.)
The Jewish Encyclopedia states that YHWH is "the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel", and describes the form "Jehovah" as "a philological impossibility".
Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:
“Jehovah — False reading of the Hebrew YAHWEH.”
(“Jehovah,” Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 1973 ed.)
Encyclopedia Americana:
“Jehovah — erroneous form of the name of the G-d of Israel.”
(Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 16., 1972 ed.)
Encyclopedia Britannica:
“The Masoretes who from the 6th to the 10th century worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible replaced the vowels of the name YHWH with the vowel signs of Adonai or Elohim. Thus the artificial name Jehovah came into being.”
(“Yahweh,” The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 12, 1993 ed.)
Strong’s number 3068 – Yĕhovah
The base for this word is = Yah - strong’s number 3050
yah (Jehovah in the shortened form)
- the proper name of the one true God
- used in many compounds
a compound word is two words together to form one word.
Example: halleluyah – to praise the lord in song
Strong’s # 3470 - Isaiah - Yĕsha`yah - from (03467) and (03050)
(03467) - yasha`- to save, be saved, be delivered
(03050) = yah - lord
Yĕsha`yah - the compound word means: the lord is deliverer [savior]
Let’s look at the other part of the compound word “Jehovah”.
Yah - strong’s number 3050
The other part of this compound word is:
Hovah strong’s number 1943
- ruin, disaster
havvah strong’s number 1942
- desire
- desire (in bad sense)
- chasm (fig. of destruction)
- engulfing ruin, destruction, calamity
# 1942 is from the word - hava'
- to fall
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What is your point?
What does this have to do with the sons of God as being angels?
JLB
Angels are not begotten.
They are created.
God is the source of life for both, however.
JLB
Rev 3:5~~'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
1 John 5:5~~Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
There is a principle when it comes to interpreting scripture(and its Not KVO) it is I.C.E
The “I†in “ICE†stands for Isagogics: the historical background of the Bible.
The “C†in “ICE†stands for Categorical teaching: the organization of principles of doctrine based on the comparison of Scripture with Scripture to determine doctrinal classification.
The “E†in “ICE†stands for Exegesis: the analysis of each verse within its context, emphasizing grammar, syntax and etymology (study) of words from the original languages (Hebrew, Chaldean, Aramaic and Koine Greek).
In the Case for "E" the greek says you are mistaken in your interpretation of Rev 3:5. John uses a "litotes" in Rev 3:5. By the figure of speech known as litotes (an affirmation expressed in negative terms), we have actually an emphatic declaration that emphasizes the certainty of the promise of salvation. In other words, a positive point is made by denying its opposite.
In the Case of the "I", Christians at this time were getting their names erased from the Roman book of citizenship. Anyone that professed they believed in Christ would have their name removed from the Roman book of citizenry. So this verse came about to believers that were worried about getting their names erased from a book and John/Holy Spirit gave them extreme comfort in the fact that they WILL NOT have their names removed from the Book of Life.
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Brother Mike
Guest
Exegesis
That is not the Problem Grace. The problem is you want to believe something and your not adding up the rest of the scriptures. Jesus said he who overcomes will not have their name blotted out.
Who overcomes? Only those that believe on Jesus. 1 John 5:5
We have other surrounding scriptures though.
You made this up, there is no scripture denoting any believer was afraid to get them name removed. Don't make things up!!!! You will loose my respect real quick because I am a word only person and so is JLB.
Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
What happens if we don't obey and keep the commandments? Professing Jesus is good enough? What happens? Answer the question.
What happens if you don't have any faith? Scared of sickness, scared of someone breaking into your house, just no faith. (Heb 11:6) Do you overcome the world? Do you please God? Answer!!!
Luk_22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
Mat_10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
What happens if you deny Jesus trying to fit in a group or impress some girl... What happens then?
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, (Condition) the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
The condition to overcome was just not believing Jesus, for without God you are without hope in this World. That was just the start and you ignore the rest. Answer my questions, your telling me that We can deny the name of Jesus, be faithless and break every love command we can think of but as long as we say we believe on Jesus you think it's all going to be OK despite what the Word says...
Am I correct? You think this way?
Mike.
That is not the Problem Grace. The problem is you want to believe something and your not adding up the rest of the scriptures. Jesus said he who overcomes will not have their name blotted out.
Who overcomes? Only those that believe on Jesus. 1 John 5:5
We have other surrounding scriptures though.
You made this up, there is no scripture denoting any believer was afraid to get them name removed. Don't make things up!!!! You will loose my respect real quick because I am a word only person and so is JLB.
Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
What happens if we don't obey and keep the commandments? Professing Jesus is good enough? What happens? Answer the question.
What happens if you don't have any faith? Scared of sickness, scared of someone breaking into your house, just no faith. (Heb 11:6) Do you overcome the world? Do you please God? Answer!!!
Luk_22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
Mat_10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
What happens if you deny Jesus trying to fit in a group or impress some girl... What happens then?
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, (Condition) the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
The condition to overcome was just not believing Jesus, for without God you are without hope in this World. That was just the start and you ignore the rest. Answer my questions, your telling me that We can deny the name of Jesus, be faithless and break every love command we can think of but as long as we say we believe on Jesus you think it's all going to be OK despite what the Word says...
Am I correct? You think this way?
Mike.
You're telling me you never sin? Are you still saved the moment you do? If so why? You said "I am a word only person" so lay it on me. Are you following the "Go and sin no more"? What's your success rate at that? Oh I repent huh?
Using a statement you made with a different context I submit it as: break any love command you can think of but as long as you say forgive me you think it's all going to be OK? Are you lost the moment you sin? If not what or is it WHO is keeping you? Do you believe there's a purgatory and that you have to pay for sins that are paid for? Do you obey every law as per Romans Chapter Thirteen and every commandment? What of laws of omission such as loving your neighbor as yourself? The law goes deep and I love you brother.
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Brother Mike
Guest
Hello Eugene!!!
The topic is OSAS, eternal security. What happens if you don't overcome? You don't keep the love command, by which all the law and the prophets are in. Stealing is not loving someone, adultery is not loving someone, but bringing death in their life. Chewing out the Walmart Cashier for being slow is breaking that commandment.
Being fearful of things like sickness, cancer, someone breaking in your house, someone not coming home on time.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Having fear and unbelief is ranked right up there with Abominable and murderers with whoremongers and sorcerers. Jesus said that, not me.
You know how many people call themselves believers and constantly confess of being afraid of things? It's as if they have no God, and don't even know God. Do you make it Eugene if you don't know the person that saved you?
Do we sin? I don't practice sin, I don't knowingly sin. That is not to say I don't blow it from time to time though. We are not talking about people who blow it. We are talking about those that gave their life to the Lord Jesus and there is no fruit, no faith, no love walk, or go back to those things they use to be as if Jesus is not there Lord. I am not talking about those that are actually trying. (God knows the heart and we can't judge but by fruit there or not there.)
A purga what?
My point is that we are talking about Eternal security, that once you just confess Jesus as Lord and get dunked in water then your good to go. Scripture say otherwise.................
Mike.