Bible Study Paul's Thorn

[agua.]

Today something popped into my head concerning things that seem to buffet me on a regular basis and so I thought of Paul.

2Co 12:5-9 KJV Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. (6) For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. (7) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger ( G32) of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (8) For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. (9) And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

Paul's thorn is said to be "the messenger of Satan" and we mostly think this thorn was a physical "disability" because it's a nice easy interpretation that excludes any uncomfortable thinking. It dawned on me today it could possibly be an evil spirit which buffeted him.

G2852
κολαφίζω
kolaphizō
kol-af-id'-zo
From a derivative of the base of G2849; to rap with the fist: - buffet.


( Kathi and Rebs will probably have a fit and after reading this )

 

[reba]

Paul's thorn was a moderator

 

[agua.]

 

[Deborah13]

I do think it was spiritual attacks from the outside not a physical problem.

Many people think it was his eyes and they do have some scriptural bases for that belief, too.

 

[eddif]

Paul's thorn was a moderator

Be temperate in all things, even your moderation. LOL

eddif

 

[reba]

 

[reba]

O my goodness this is the Bible Study Forum... guess it is time to be a bit more serious.

Deborah13
Seems to me and i have no evidence it would not be his eyes because God healed them
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

 

[Chopper]

Paul's thorn was a moderator

 

[Chopper]

Today something popped into my head concerning things that seem to buffet me on a regular basis and so I thought of Paul.

2Co 12:5-9 KJV Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. (6) For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. (7) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger ( G32) of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (8) For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. (9) And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

Paul's thorn is said to be "the messenger of Satan" and we mostly think this thorn was a physical "disability" because it's a nice easy interpretation that excludes any uncomfortable thinking. It dawned on me today it could possibly be an evil spirit which buffeted him.

G2852
κολαφίζω
kolaphizō
kol-af-id'-zo
From a derivative of the base of G2849; to rap with the fist: - buffet.


( Kathi and Rebs will probably have a fit and after reading this )

OK, a genius has emerged! Agua you are the only other individual who has come up with the exact meaning of the thorn. Actually this topic has been discussed before and I had a tough time trying to convince others that it was a demon spirit who continually was responsible of persecutions, hardships, and other tough times. The word messenger is translated, ἄγγελος, aggelos, or ang'-el-os.

 

[Chopper]

I hit the wrong button. OK, The thorn is identified as an "Angel" not eye disease. When I look at 2 Corinthians 11:23-33 I wonder how many of these incidents were orchestrated by this demon. So thank you Agua. YOU DA MAN!

 

[Northman]

It was quite a long time ago when i first saw this. I hold the same position now as back then, and that is that i simply dont know. Its not been given me understanding to what it actually was. Some time later this passage comes up again, this time a with a whole other focus.

God left and/or allowed something that by human eyes might be considered detrimental in Pauls life. Its one of many tools for false teacher exposure. Time and time again people get told that if something isnt right in their life, then they are out of sync with Gods will. Wether it be this instance, or Job, or whatever other of the numerous examples found in the Word...its just one of those things that let people know that they arent having to do something wrong or be disobedient to have things happen to them.

As far as the actual reasons for peoples interpretations on things? To say that some hold to the idea that it was a physical ailment BECAUSE the spiritual alternative wasnt pleasnt might be a bit of a stretch. In my experience, demonic activity is always in our(believers) midst or right on our coat-tails, just cause thats what they like is to follow along and try to wreck the work done. Most who claim Christ that ive met are aware of such activity in one way or another and dont deny it due to a case of the heebie-jeebies.

 

[Northman]

I had a tough time trying to convince others that it was a demon spirit who continually was responsible of persecutions, hardships, and other tough times. The word messenger is translated, ἄγγελος, aggelos, or ang'-el-os.

You must have had a tough crowd there. This stance is pretty dominant on my portion of the continent, and is nowhere near being a new idea. Dont fret Chopp, the work is getting done

 

[Deborah13]

You must have had a tough crowd there. This stance is pretty dominant on my portion of the continent, and is nowhere near being a new idea. Dont fret Chopp, the work is getting done

I too, have always seen it as demonic and have stated such in other threads. Angelos has never been used for sickness or injury that I know of.

 

[Kathi]

It would all be speculation because the Bible does not say what it was.If it was a physical,spiritual or emotional affliction is unknown.

 

[Deborah13]

O my goodness this is the Bible Study Forum... guess it is time to be a bit more serious.

Deborah13
Seems to me and i have no evidence it would not be his eyes because God healed them
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

I agree.
In fact, I don't believe that there was any eye injury that needed to be healed. They were scales, not a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. They were like a blindfold he couldn't remove for three days, quite an efficient way to keep him focused and recognize the power of the Lord. "Listen up, you don't want to be in darkness forever."(spiritual darkness)

 

[Sinthesis]

I disagree that Paul's thorn was a supernatural demonic spirit.

(from an earlier thread)

I believe a messenger can be anyone/anything which conveys a message. Ironically, this expands the idea of angels and demons beyond the supernatural, into our natural world. Others have pointed out Numbers 33:55. I believe the similar language is meant to establish a parallel, whereby a remnant of Paul's old way of thinking supplies a 'spiritual' significance to his poor physical eyesight, which plagues him and others with an illusion of his infirmity. Yet ultimately Paul's physical ability to see well was not important to God's purpose. It's a physical ailment of course, but it can also be spiritual to those who are misled. Though as Christians we now would not consider the handicapped personally cursed by God, at that time Satan would have been pointing people to Paul's infirmity as proof that Paul was not favored by God, and how therefore Paul's teaching must be incorrect. It is perfectly human for Paul to have wanted his sight healed, but God knew that the worldly infirmity kept Paul humble for heavenly purposes.

 

[Sinthesis]

I agree.
In fact, I don't believe that there was any eye injury that needed to be healed. They were scales, not a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. They were like a blindfold he couldn't remove for three days, quite an efficient way to keep him focused and recognize the power of the Lord. "Listen up, you don't want to be in darkness forever."(spiritual darkness)

This is helpful.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/thorn.cfm

 

[reba]

Thanks Sinthesis details are interesting

 

[Deborah13]

This is helpful.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/thorn.cfm

If we take each scripture in this writing in Blue Letter it could be very help. One of the stronger references used by many to say Paul had a permanent eye condition is ....I just say what I think may be relevant to this scripture.

Gal 4:13 and ye have known that through infirmity of the flesh I did proclaim good news to you at the first,
Gal 4:14 and my trial that is in my flesh ye did not despise nor reject, but as a messenger of God ye did receive me--as Christ Jesus;

So when was it that Paul had preached the gospel to them, at first and what condition was he in then that they would have plucked their own eyes out if they could have and given them to him.
Paul and Barnabas are traveling an preaching. Lystra and Derbe are both cities in the region named of Galatia.

Act 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed....
Act 14:5 And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
Act 14:6 They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:
Act 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
Act 14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
Act 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
Act 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,

So when Paul writes this letter to those in Galatia I think he is reminding them of the condition he was in where he had suffered such a horrible stoning/beating that they were sympathetic and did not hold it as sign that he was a false teacher as the zealot Jews had said before they stoned him. I would think that his face was mess not just his eyes but his whole body.

 

[th1b.taylor]

This is helpful.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/thorn.cfm

That is a great commentary on this issue.