Bible Study Rapture

[Douglas Summers]

How can this scripture alone not prove what I just said since it is what the apostle Paul said?

Im post tribulation myself.

Hi Winnie, It does not matter what you or I believe, Christ will come when He is ready.....the question is....are we ready?

 

[JLB]

Hi Winnie, It does not matter what you or I believe, Christ will come when He is ready.....the question is....are we ready?

The scripture shows us the bride will make herself ready.

Do you know what it is that will bring this about?

• He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her. [the harlot]
• for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.

2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”
8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:2-15


Notice that the marriage supper occurs after the second coming, when the wicked are destroyed.




JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

The scripture shows us the bride will make herself ready.

Do you know what it is that will bring this about?

• He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her. [the harlot]
• for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. Yes, The Church, (bride of Christ) is already with Christ before the Tribulation, In Rev. 19:7, The Bride becomes the wife and the marriage is consummated at Christ second coming as the New Jerusalem comes at the beginning of the Millennium (Revelation Chapter 21).

2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.”
8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:2-15


Notice that the marriage supper occurs after the second coming, when the wicked are destroyed.




JLB

 

[JLB]

DS said
Yes, The Church, (bride of Christ) is already with Christ before the Tribulation,

Brother, those people died during the tribulation and went to heaven.

That is how they made themselves ready.

The Lord avenges their blood as martyrs.


Please read the scriptures I gave you.



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

Brother, those people died during the tribulation and went to heaven.

That is how they made themselves ready.

The Lord avenges their blood as martyrs.


Please read the scriptures I gave you.



JLB

Hi JLB, I did read them, The first Church fathers and Christians were Martyrs, and even up to the 1800's (Last word of Saints and Sinners by Dr. Herbert Lockyer. The Revelation of Jesus Christ is not in an order of events, it goes back and forth in time after Chapter 4. Most of he martyrs through Christendom were martyred by keeping and contending for the faith, first delivered by the Apostles and prophets with Christ as Chief corner stone, by the religious. Now days (even here) Everyone's belief or religion is accepted as if God will except all beliefs, because we all believe in the same God.....That is a path for "The Antichrist", for there are many antichrist leading the way by the lack of Contending for the faith, and contending for the faith on the forums is prohibited, even though many go against the forums profession of faith. The martyrs of this age are usually in the middle East. The Laodicean Churches of the United States are bad enough, but I believe the Beast come out of the old Roman Empire (Europe). Again, His servants are not the Church, they are those who were killed during the great tribulation (Rev. 7:9-17)....many are Gentiles.....this is not the Church...these are they in Rev. 19:1-6, and they are invited to the wedding feast of the marriage of the Bride Rev. 19:7-10. These tribulation saints will be invited to the SUPPER of the Lamb and His bride and will serve God day and night (Rev. 7:14-17) and will attend the wedding (Rev. 21:2-6). Just as the Levites were priest, but not all, many Levites served in the temple.

 

[JLB]

Again, His servants are not the Church

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, Revelation 1:1


Is the Apostle John part of the Church ?



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, Revelation 1:1


Is the Apostle John part of the Church ?



JLB

Hi JLB, Of course John is, and all 12 Apostles are the pillars (foundation) of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:9-14), But in (Rev. 4:1-11) resemble the mystery of the Church in (1 Cor. 15:51-58). And notice that Christ says, "Come up here", and immediately I was in the Spirit (Rev. 4:1-2) (in the twinkling of an eye) we will be changed (Rev. 15:51-52) when the last trump call of the Church. Christ say's, "and I will show you things hereafter (after what?)...after Chapters 1-3 of the Church. The Church is the first fruits of the resurrection. Chapter 15 in 1 Corinthians is to the Church, but it goes beyond the church to the last day (1 Cor. 15:24-28)

 

[New Day Coming]

A great read, settled the question for me...

The Falling Away: Spiritual Departure or Physical Rapture?: A Second Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Description:

The Day of the Lord will not come unless the "falling away" comes first, according to 2 Thessalonians 2:3. What is this falling away? Is it apostasy, a spiritual departure from the faith, or is it an actual physical rapture? In this book, Dr. Andy Woods gives 10 reasons to believe it is a physical rapture.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Winnie, Standing alone that Scripture with your explanation makes sense. But The Thessalonians , who were going through great tribulation were told that (by anonymous letters) that the day of the Lord had already come and they were left behind (rapture). But Paul says, That day will not come until the departure (taken away) (apostasia). Christ has delivered us from the wrath to come (1 Thes.1:10; 4:9). First and Second Thessalonians are to comfort those who thought (because of their persecution) that they had been left behind. The Body of Christ will suffer on this earth, but we are not appointed to wrath. Christ has made different and certain promises to the Church and to Israel. The Body of Christ will be completed when the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in to the Church"....that is the completion of the body of Christ, then Christ turns His work back to Israel. (Roman 11:24-25) (Acts 15:13-20)

1 Thessalonians 1:10 does say even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come, but what that means is He paid the price for us that whosoever will believe in Him should not perish, but have eternal life, John 3:16. We who are still alive during the seven trumpets sounding and the seven vial judgements will be spared from God's great wrath (tribulation) falling on us. This will be a time of great faith in Christ as the temptation of Satan will be great into deceiving us to take the mark of the beast that happens before Christ returns, Rev 13.

We see in the end of days God's mighty wrath being poured out into the earth during the first six trumpets sounding. This is the timing of God's patience coming to an end as He would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9. During this time God hopes that all would turn back to Him before the door of salvation is closed when Christ returns on the last day, John 6:40, John 5:28,29; Rev 19. Matthew 24:29-31 makes it perfectly clear when Christ will return and first destroys mystery Babylon casting the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and then binding Satan for a time and we who are alive and remain here on earth will be gathered with those saints who are asleep in the grave and will evermore be with the Lord for eternity after Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

The Thessalonians were tricked into believing Christ had already came and they were left behind, but Paul taught the teachings of Christ in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 that the timing of the gathering of the saints, both asleep in the grave and alive at His coming is after the falling away as many will be deceived by the lying signs and wonders coming from the beast who gives the false prophet his power and through his lying signs and wonders even the very elect of God can be fooled and fall away from truth if possible, Matthew 24:24.

The fullness of the Gentiles makes up all of Israel that will be saved. As Ephraim mixed himself up with other nations that was a foreshadowing of the Gentiles being grafted into Israel meaning all of Israel will be saved that have faith in God as being part of the covenant God made with Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3; 48:17-19; Hosea 7:8. Jesus told the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel first in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria and then to the ends of the world, Acts 1:8; 8:14-17. Samaria is the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel as both Jew and Gentiles both dwelt there. It has always been as the Jews are still called of Christ to preach the Gospel to the Jews and the Gentiles are called to preach to the Gentiles as all, both Jew and Gentile are part of the vine with Christ being the root, Romans 11:11-31.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi JLB, Of course John is, and all 12 Apostles are the pillars (foundation) of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:9-14), But in (Rev. 4:1-11) resemble the mystery of the Church in (1 Cor. 15:51-58). And notice that Christ says, "Come up here", and immediately I was in the Spirit (Rev. 4:1-2) (in the twinkling of an eye) we will be changed (Rev. 15:51-52) when the last trump call of the Church. Christ say's, "and I will show you things hereafter (after what?)...after Chapters 1-3 of the Church. The Church is the first fruits of the resurrection. Chapter 15 in 1 Corinthians is to the Church, but it goes beyond the church to the last day (1 Cor. 15:24-28)

Rev 4:1, 2 has nothing to do with a so called pretrib rapture, but all those pretrib teachers try to use this to support their theory. Rev 4:1, 2 After this means after that of the instruction to the seven Churches John now here's a great voice speaking to him. The voice, whether Jesus or an angel, says come up hither meaning here towards a Spiritual realm as John was only in the Spirit still on the isle of Patmos and not actually in the third heaven when these visions from vs. 3-11 were given him.

Not sure if you ever heard the phrase slain in the Spirit as it is explained in 2 Chronicles 5:14; Matthew 17:6; John 18:6; Acts 9:3, 4 to name a few verses. It just simply means when the presence and power of God comes directly at you it is so intense that you can not stand as your knees literally go weak and you fall to the ground. I like to call it being in the holy of Holies being in the presence of God's Spirit.

 

[JLB]

A great read, settled the question for me...

The Falling Away: Spiritual Departure or Physical Rapture?: A Second Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Description:

The Day of the Lord will not come unless the "falling away" comes first, according to 2 Thessalonians 2:3. What is this falling away? Is it apostasy, a spiritual departure from the faith, or is it an actual physical rapture? In this book, Dr. Andy Woods gives 10 reasons to believe it is a physical rapture.

The gathering together of His people is mentioned in Paul’s first letter.

It’s first, the resurrection, then the rapture, in which both are caught up together to be with the Lord at His coming.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds


Both the dead in Christ and those who are alive will be caught up together.

This is when the Lord gathers His people who are in heaven and those who are on earth together to be with Him in the air above the earth, when He destroys the wicked, which includes the antichrist.

This occurs at His coming.

Paul writes his second letter to them to clarify when His coming and the gathering will take place.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 Thessalonians 2:1


The gathering together is the resurrection and rapture, in which those in heaven (those who have previously died and are in heaven) are gathered together with those on earth.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Again, His servants are not the Church

Hi JLB, Of course John is, and all 12 Apostles are the pillars (foundation) of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:9-14), But in (Rev. 4:1-11) resemble the mystery of the Church in (1 Cor. 15:51-58). And notice that Christ says, "Come up here", and immediately I was in the Spirit (Rev. 4:1-2) (in the twinkling of an eye) we will be changed (Rev. 15:51-52) when the last trump call of the Church. Christ say's, "and I will show you things hereafter (after what?)...after Chapters 1-3 of the Church. The Church is the first fruits of the resurrection. Chapter 15 in 1 Corinthians is to the Church, but it goes beyond the church to the last day (1 Cor. 15:24-28)

So then as you can see, the Apostle John, a servant of Jesus Christ is indeed a part of the Church.

The Church is made up of servant’s of Jesus Christ, who gave us the example of the greatest one among is to serve the others.


So, again, we see the Church returning “with” Jesus, at His coming when He comes “for” His Church that are alive and remain on earth.


For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17


Key: even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.


Those in heaven that come with Him, will receive their resurrected bodies first, then those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together with them in the air.


11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Revelation 19:11-14

• the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

• the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

All the Church, both in heaven and those on earth will be gathered together at the coming of the Lord, then the antichrist and the wicked will be destroyed by the Lord Himself.


No one, will be “left behind”.


Jesus says it this way -


24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27

• from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

JLB

 

[ezra]

Hi Winnie, It does not matter what you or I believe, Christ will come when He is ready.....the question is....are we ready?

you are %100 correct the 5 wise the 5 foolish virgins ready or not here he comes

 

[Douglas Summers]

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27

Hi JLB, Mark 13 is described in full in Revelation Chapter 21. (Rev.21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea." (This is the end of the old, and the beginning of the new creation). Rev. 21:2-27 goes back to the millennial and the bride (New Jerusalem) coming with Christ descending from heaven (Rev. 21:10). Then Revelation's Chapter 22 goes back to the recreated earth (Rev. 22:3) with (Rev. 7:15) (Rev. 7:11-14).
JLB, I wanted to show you who Trump is surrounding himself with for religious counseling. This is how the antichrist gets a hold of being the political and religious beast....most of these religious leaders are millionaires.
Who’s Who of Trump’s ‘Tremendous’ Faith Advisers ...

www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/june-web-only/whos-who...
His Trump ties: He was “honored” to meet Trump at Paula White’s gathering in September and asked his followers to pray for Trump. Harry Jackson, Maryland pastor Who he is: Jackson, senior pastor at Hope Christian Church in Maryland, is the presiding bishop of the International Communion of Evangelical Churches (ICEC) and host of the radio show The Truth in Black and White.

 

[Douglas Summers]

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27

Hi JLB, Mark 13 is described in full in Revelation Chapter 21. (Rev.21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea." (This is the end of the old, and the beginning of the new creation). Rev. 21:2-27 goes back to the millennial and the bride (New Jerusalem) coming with Christ descending from heaven (Rev. 21:10). Then Revelation's Chapter 22 goes back to the recreated earth (Rev. 22:3) with (Rev. 7:15) (Rev. 7:11-14).
JLB, I wanted to show you who Trump is surrounding himself with for religious counseling. This is how the antichrist gets a hold of being the political and religious beast....most of these religious leaders are millionaires.
Who’s Who of Trump’s ‘Tremendous’ Faith Advisers ...

www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/june-web-only/whos-who...
His Trump ties: He was “honored” to meet Trump at Paula White’s gathering in September and asked his followers to pray for Trump. Harry Jackson, Maryland pastor Who he is: Jackson, senior pastor at Hope Christian Church in Maryland, is the presiding bishop of the International Communion of Evangelical Churches (ICEC) and host of the radio show The Truth in Black and White.

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB, Mark 13 is described in full in Revelation Chapter 21.

Mark 13 is described in Revelation 19 with Jesus coming with His Church, for His Church and pour out Hope s wrath upon the wicked, including the antichrist.

Three major things occur at the coming of the Lord: The Gathering of His people: Resurrection, Rapture, destruction of the false messiah.

Here is the order of those three things:

The resurrection of the dead in Christ: the dead in Christ will rise first...

The Rapture: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

The destruction of the false messiah [antichrist]: destroy with the brightness of His coming.




JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

Mark 13 is described in Revelation 19 with Jesus coming with His Church, for His Church and pour out Hope s wrath upon the wicked, including the antichrist.

Three major things occur at the coming of the Lord: The Gathering of His people: Resurrection, Rapture, destruction of the false messiah.

Here is the order of those three things:

The resurrection of the dead in Christ: the dead in Christ will rise first...

The Rapture: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

The destruction of the false messiah [antichrist]: destroy with the brightness of His coming.




JLB

I will be with Him, before that time.

 

[JLB]

I will be with Him, before that time.

You may.

But it won't be in the rapture.



JLB

 

[New Day Coming]

I will be with Him, before that time.

Me too!

 

[JLB]

I’m with Him, now.

However, it’s all relative to what sense we are referring to.


JLB