Same Sex Relationships

[Dan Edwin]

Those called to salvation are predestinated to be conformed to the image of the Son of God Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29-30) to become heirs of the Kingdom of God (Revelation 21:7). Jesus Christ had to be without sin to be a sacrifice for sins (once for all) to fulfill the Mosaic Law. The Law says it is an abomination for a man to lie with a man, as with a woman (Leviticus 20:13). Because Jesus Christ is without sin, and the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8), how can those who practice or condone the abomination of sexual intimacy between a man with a man or a woman with a woman, be forgiven (born again) and conformed to the image of Jesus Christ to become heirs of the Kingdom of God (Revelation 21:7), unless they repent?

Until we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Ephesians 4:13). If anyone errs from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and hide a multitude of sins (James 5:19-20

God bless

 

[Ted]

Leviticus also condemns the wearing of a fiber blend, the eating of shell fish and the eating of pork.. It also promotes stoning prostitutes and stoning disobedient children. This then raises the question as to what basis one would decide that wearing of a fiber blend etc. is alright. The same question holds true for the eating of shell fish, or the eating of pork. On what basis then does one not hold to stoning of prostitutes or disobedient children.

Looks like picking and choosing to me.

Shalom
Ted

 

[Dan Edwin]

Leviticus also condemns the wearing of a fiber blend, the eating of shell fish and the eating of pork.. It also promotes stoning prostitutes and stoning disobedient children. This then raises the question as to what basis one would decide that wearing of a fiber blend etc. is alright. The same question holds true for the eating of shell fish, or the eating of pork. On what basis then does one not hold to stoning of prostitutes or disobedient children.

Looks like picking and choosing to me.

Shalom
Ted

We are being conformed to the likeness of Jesus Christ, not keeping the ordinances of the Law.

But put you on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. (Romans 13:14)

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (Romans 1:24)

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Galatians 5:24)

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts thereof. (Romans 6:12)

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live (Romans 8:12-13).

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1:27)

Take care, and trust the Lord

 

[Ted]

Dan

You have offered absolutely no answer to the questions I raise. It is picking and choosing and nothing more.

I could go on but it would be a waste of my time if you are not going to answer the questions raised.

Shalom
Ted

 

[cyberjosh]

You have offered absolutely no answer to the questions I raise. It is picking and choosing and nothing more.

Effects of food on the stomach are of no consequence, and Jesus called attention to this. While effects of sexual impropriety have spiritual ramifications, thus why the Bible also says that sexual immorality not only sins against God but also against the person's own body. Sexual relations and Jewish laws on foods cannot be paralleled, sorry.

~Josh

 

[unred typo]

You have offered absolutely no answer to the questions I raise. It is picking and choosing and nothing more.

Effects of food on the stomach are of no consequence, and Jesus called attention to this. While effects of sexual impropriety have spiritual ramifications, thus why the Bible also says that sexual immorality not only sins against God but also against the person's own body. Sexual relations and Jewish laws on foods cannot be paralleled, sorry.

~Josh

Right, the effects of food can be somewhat ignored because they are temporal, while sexual sins and lusts effect a person’s heart and soul in a way that impacts their eternity. Unbridled lust leads to the disregard of ‘love one another’. Unbridled shellfish eating only leads to seafood related illnesses like salmonella and red tide poisoning.

 

[unred typo]

quote by Ted on Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:14 pm
Leviticus also condemns the wearing of a fiber blend, the eating of shell fish and the eating of pork.. It also promotes stoning prostitutes and stoning disobedient children. This then raises the question as to what basis one would decide that wearing of a fiber blend etc. is alright. The same question holds true for the eating of shell fish, or the eating of pork. On what basis then does one not hold to stoning of prostitutes or disobedient children.

Looks like picking and choosing to me.

I don’t know about others but my reasons for speaking against same sex relations are not based in Deuteronomy. God finds the practice detestable and against nature, a perversion of the way he created man and woman to be. It is a malfunctioning practice that is degrading and addictive like alcoholism. In the same way it is not loving to promote smoking, gambling or alcoholism, it is not loving to promote unnatural sexual perversions. The lifestyle is unhealthy both physically and psychologically. Just like any sin, it destroys the sinner who refuses to repent.

 

[Ted]

In view of the above responses it would appear that picking and choosing is an acceptable practice. Interesting.

Shalom
Ted

 

[biblecatholic]

Ted,
I wanted to clear somethings up for you. Just a few points.

1) A homosexual relationship is not love, it is a distortion of the image of God. Marriage reflects the glory of God. The man gives all of himself to the woman the woman receives th the man and gives herself back to the man. This Love is the only thing you can call Love(besides friendly love) it reflects the trinity , The Father loves the Son, the Son loves the Father and that love is so intense that it manifests itself as a thrid person the Holy Spirit. as husband and wife produce a child.

now that being said God is so merciful that if anyone commits that sin if they repent they will be forgiven.

2) Correct me if i'm wrong, aren't you an evolutionists? BY the theory of evolution it also proves it is against nature because homosexuals can not procreate thus we would have extinction.

3) The vast majority of homosexuality is caused from sexual abuse as a child. The father also plays a role in this behavioral thinking developing, if he abandons the children, divorce,not loving, etc. There is a spiritual aspect it is demonic oppression and my heart goes out to anyone who struggles with this, but just as the molester is not born that way homosexuals aren't.

Jesus can heal this, inner healing is a powerful way to deal with this and many are healed from this wound from satan

 

[Ted]

biblecatholic

You are highly incorrect about homosexual love not being love and you are also wrong about homosexuals coming out of abusive situations. These facts are simply not supportable.

Yes I am an evolutionist. However, scientists and human behaviour scientists have now concluded that homosexual love is quite natural. In fact it is found in all living animal species.

Shalom
Ted

 

[Ted]

For interest.

http://www.soulforce.org/article/homose ... alter-wink
Homosexuality and the Bible by Walter Wink

http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html
Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality

Shalom
Ted

 

[unred typo]

quote by Ted on Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:34 am
In view of the above responses it would appear that picking and choosing is an acceptable practice. Interesting.

Things aren’t always what they seem. We are supposed to follow the law of love, as taught by Christ, not the OT laws for the Jews.

quote by Ted on Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:02 pm

You are highly incorrect about homosexual love not being love and you are also wrong about homosexuals coming out of abusive situations. These facts are simply not supportable.

Yes I am an evolutionist. However, scientists and human behaviour scientists have now concluded that homosexual love is quite natural. In fact it is found in all living animal species.

Animals eat their young, feast on dead things, abandon and kill the weak, and many other things too gross to speak of here. Are you suggesting that what is natural for a cat or dog or chimp be considered natural for a human? How about behavior natural for a black widow spider or a Preying Mantis? Let’s see some picking and choosing now.

 

[Ted]

unred

All of those things that you mention animals doing are perfectly normal and natural. It comes down to survival of the fittest. A species cannot survive if the weak and sickly are allowed to procreate. That is part of the natural cycle of life. The lion downs a gazelle and then proceeds to eat it. That is how he survives. The vulture comes along and eats rotting remains that is how it survives. These things are only gross to those who have not considered their purpose within the sacred realm of all of life here on earth.

Approximately 10% of the animal kingdom engage in same sex activities. That is quite natural. That is the way it is. I defy anyone to try telling a dog that his behaviour is not nice and unnatural.

Man has raped the earth and placed the whole of the human race in danger of extinction. That is gross and uncalled for except of course for the greed that promotes it.

Urination and defecation are natural for all living animals. Is that gross and unnatural.

Human likewise eat dead things; beef, pork, fish, bison and so on.

It is a well known fact that in the Inuit way of life the very old used to leave the house or igloo and go off to die in the cold and snow. They knew if this was not done that no one would survive. It was a form of altruism but also a part of the culture.

The female human body naturally aborts a fetus with which there is something wrong. Is that gross. Menstruation used to be considered unclean but we know better now. A nocturnal emission used to be considered unclean but there are physical reasons for it. We know better now.

The human sexual response whether straight or gay etc. is in part determined by genetic factors, environmental factors brain development factors, upbringing factors, the need for intimacy which is natural. The medical profession and the psychological profession are now agreed that homosexuality is a given and not a choice. That is the way it is. That is how the Creator made us.

Life by its very nature has a limited life span. It has absolutely nothing to do with some mythical characters in ancient stories. Man was not created to live forever. That is the way it is.

Shalom
Ted

 

[biblecatholic]

Ted,


My statements are correct! And if you are for evolution you cant be for homosexuality, that would be devolution, that would not be survival of the fittest. It just brings death, no life can come from 2 men or 2 women... You do not understand the meaning of marriage or the meaning or sexual intimacy. What other sexual practices do you see as God-given.girl who likes women and men, born that way? Beastiality, maybe that guy was just born liking horses, since that is his sexual attraction, what about a child molester, do you say he was born that way?...... you see, if you say people are born other than normal male- female attraction then you have to at least be consistent and say all these others "sexual attractions" were given by God. So since they are born that way I guess is it ok to you... In the bad-old-days I use to date lots of women and didn't like to settle down ,maybe God made me to have a harem..... and since i like blonds and brunettes maybe he wants me to have one of each?.....no these are not the way God made us.


here is a site that would be good for you

http://www.christianhealingmin.org/news ... icle01.htm

 

[Ted]

biblecatholic

There is no correlation between being a supporter of homosexuality and being an evolutionist. Evolution has also resulted in the extinction of some creatures in the past since they were unsuited to the environment that developed.

Homosexuality is a perfectly natural act. I did not say the norm but natural. All varieties of animals engage in such activity among 10% of the population.

Nice try.

Shalom
Ted

 

[Guest]

biblecatholic

There is no correlation between being a supporter of homosexuality and being an evolutionist. Evolution has also resulted in the extinction of some creatures in the past since they were unsuited to the environment that developed.

Homosexuality is a perfectly natural act. I did not say the norm but natural. All varieties of animals engage in such activity among 10% of the population.

Nice try.

Shalom
Ted

Please be advised that promotion of homosexuality is forbidden at 123Christian Forums.

 

[Ted]

Excuse me but I do not promote homosexuality. Whether or not one is of whatever sexual orientation is no one's business and is between that individual and God. That is utter nonsense. This is a serious issue that must be addressed in light of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth who told us that the love of God self and neighbour was the foundation of all the law.

To heap abuse on homosexual people is in itself a sin.

Shalom
Ted

 

[Free]

There is no correlation between being a supporter of homosexuality and being an evolutionist.

Sure there is. It would be inconsistent to be against homosexuality and believe in evolution.

Homosexuality is a perfectly natural act. I did not say the norm but natural. All varieties of animals engage in such activity among 10% of the population.

By "all varieties of animals" do you mean "all animals" or "all sorts of different animals? Regardless, just because homosexuality occurs in nature does not mean it is natural. The world was created in a perfect state but has since fallen, resulting in rebellion, brokenness and perversion. Homosexuality is a perversion (in the true sense of the word) of what was meant to be between a man and his wife.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

You will notice that both maleness and femaleness are the image of God. To say that homosexuality is natural and created by God is to slap God in the face and I would even argue that it is a complete denial of being made in God's image.

How would the command to "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth" work with homosexuals?

How do you feel about incest? Is it morally wrong? Have you done any research into how common this is among animals?

 

[Free]

This is a serious issue that must be addressed in light of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth who told us that the love of God self and neighbour was the foundation of all the law.

But do not confuse Christ's command to love one's neighbour with accepting their homosexuality as morally okay.

To heap abuse on homosexual people is in itself a sin.

I agree.

 

[Guest]

Excuse me but I do not promote homosexuality. Whether or not one is of whatever sexual orientation is no one's business and is between that individual and God. That is utter nonsense. This is a serious issue that must be addressed in light of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth who told us that the love of God self and neighbour was the foundation of all the law.

To heap abuse on homosexual people is in itself a sin.

Shalom
Ted

You have suggested that it is a natural act and that it acceptable. It is a serious issue - as is all sin issues. We should not be promoting, condoning, or allowing sinful behavior. Our responsibility is a ministry of reconcillation to God - not acceptance of sinful behavior. Lest we be quilty of enabling sin.

I have not heaped any abuse onto homosexuals.

Homosexual attraction is not a sin, homosexual behavior is.