Bible Study SO YOU THINK YOU ARE SAVED.

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks, I understand. Hyper-grace is something that I'm not all that familiar with. Guess I'll have to do a little research.

It rears it's ugly head occasionally in this forum.
It says the 'believer' can literally live like the devil and they will still be saved on the Day of Wrath. The fundamental rationalization for that being works have no bearing on salvation because salvation is entirely by faith in Christ. But that belief is terribly ignorant of the fact that the scriptures speak of good works (i.e. the Commandments) being that which signifies that one does in deed have the faith in Christ that saves.

 

[Chopper]

I believe there are people who start out in faith, professing Christ from a real faith, but who then later don't have that faith. If that's what you mean. Hyper-grace doctrine says that person is still saved.

This helped me, perhaps someone else will like the info....Question: "What is hyper-grace?"

Answer: The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism....Compliments of "Got Questions.org

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm not interested in having my flesh which is contrary to and against the Spirit turn me into a liar quite frankly. I'd rather it abide where it belongs.

In sin? Really?

Why does anyone try to justify our flesh which is contrary to and against the Spirit? Because their flesh is MAKING them justify the flesh and they are in fact "walking in the flesh" justifying that which is contrary to the Spirit.

No, no, you got it backwards: It's the person who is sinning that is 'walking in the flesh', not the person who isn't walking in the flesh because Romans 8 is a factual reality in them.

Who in this thread has yet to step up and condemn their own contrary to against the Spirit flesh?

I don't know of a single Christian in 30 years as a Christian who hasn't acknowledged that they sin. They are quick to condemn what they hate about what they do wrong. I've never seen any believer rationalize the sins of the flesh.....until now. I see your doctrine rationalizing the sins of the flesh....the very thing your doctrine condemns other believers for supposedly doing in regard to their own sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This helped me, perhaps someone else will like the info....Question: "What is hyper-grace?"

Answer: The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism....Compliments of "Got Questions.org

WOW! Dead on!
And if that is not one of the scariest doctrines one can ever see, what is?

 

[smaller]

If this person were focused on Jesus the Son of God then they wouldn't spend so much time attributing things, or giving place to the devil. It is like always trying to find some "antichrist person" in the scripture so they will know him when they see him. Is that what we are called for?
If someone is looking for antichrist, then are they really following after Christ?

Luke 19:
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

 

[smaller]

In sin? Really?

I think it's quite entertaining to observe the flesh of any believer vainly trying to justify itself, when it is in fact contrary to and against the Spirit.

Why can't any believer just saddle up to the truth of the matter? They can not because they are over ruled by that which is contrary to and against the Spirit.

Y'all think good behavior dodges the flesh being against and contrary to the Spirit.

Here's news. It doesn't.

Paul showed us that when he did good, evil was present with him. Did Paul justify the evil present with him when he did good? Never! Did he deny he had evil present with him when he did good? Again, Never!

And all the good actors just don't want to hear of it, and prefer to see themselves and their contrary to and against the Spirit flesh as something other than what it is, denying to their dying flesh breath, that they do NOT have evil present with them. They are merely employing a common cover up over the obvious.

 

[reba]

and the TOS shows it self...
2.4: . Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.​

 

[ezrider]

As I said before EZ, your focus is only on one side of an issue. There are two sides. You ask, "If someone is looking for antichrist, then are they really following after Christ?" My answer is yes. We are told to be watchful....

Then why do people take a prophecy of the coming Christ and the new Covenant, fulfilled over two thousand years ago, and tell you it is some end times seven year covenant with the anthichrist? Is that the result of looking for Christ or antichrist?

 

[reba]

Then why do people take a prophecy of the coming Christ and the new Covenant, fulfilled over two thousand years ago, and tell you it is some end times seven year covenant with the anthichrist? Is that the result of looking for Christ or antichrist?

This is not the End Times forum

 

[ezrider]

This is not the End Times forum

Nor was it meant to be an end times discussion.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I'm torn. I was saved by old school Pentecostals, so they hammered into me that you can't live like Hell and inherit Heaven. True, that.

But sometimes I think they go a bit too far. If you commit suicide, its automatically Hell. Better stay prayed up and ready to go. And yet...they do discuss some important Biblical concepts, like seared conscience and being handed over to a reprobate mind. I don't recall either the PCUSA church I grew up in or the megachurch my dad sometimes goes to ever discussing those bits of Scripture.

I just don't know. I recently read some CS Lewis for a class and in this piece he said that its part of the Christian experience to come to realize that you can't do it, and then learn to lean upon The Lord out of sheer frustration, if nothing else. Makes sense...I think I'm getting there, lol. I think its only human nature to want to do it all in the flesh, part pride, part...well, I think especially in 21st century, modern cultures, its part of what's hammered into us....an emphasis on choices and personal success.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not interested in having my flesh which is contrary to and against the Spirit turn me into a liar quite frankly. I'd rather it abide where it belongs. In condemnation and me, truthful about it.

Why does anyone try to justify our flesh which is contrary to and against the Spirit? Because their flesh is MAKING them justify the flesh and they are in fact "walking in the flesh" justifying that which is contrary to the Spirit.

It's a big game of dodge ball that the flesh plays with all believers.

Who in this thread has yet to step up and condemn their own contrary to against the Spirit flesh?

Let me be the first AGAIN to say, I condemn and hate my own flesh, because the evil present, sin indwelling it is in fact OF THE DEVIL.

Who wants to go there? Uh, no flesh man can go there.

Yes, we are condemned in the flesh if we are surrendering to it as everyone knows the flesh is weak, corruptible and Satan's playhouse, but we who walk in the Spirit have crucified this flesh with the crucifixion of Christ and no longer seek those things of the flesh. Will the temptations always be present, yes, but Jesus taught us how to overcome the tempter for greater is HE (Jesus) that is in me than he (Satan) that is in the world. Look at what Jesus said in Matthew 4:10 and what did Satan do.............he left.

We as a child of God do not fixate on the flesh anymore as it is dead to us. Our focus is that of God and following His will and not our own.

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh, so you think "good acting" made the flesh NOT contrary to and against the Spirit?

Again, nice try. There really is no getting around it. Gal. 5:17 is a hard line fact for all of us. The lusts of the flesh can be contained and reigned OVER, but we do NOT reign by lying about it.

Colossians Chapter 3 gives us the answer how to overcome the evil one who tempts the flesh and I hope you read it and let it sink in.

 

[for_his_glory]

That which is contrary to and against the Spirit ain't gonna be saved.

No, our flesh isn't going to make it past the Pearly Gates. We all bear our respective crosses precisely because our own flesh is VILE.

That cross results in eventual death of our own flesh. We account it to be that way in the meantime. Not justifying our contrary to and against the Spirit flesh for any reason and certainly not lying about it, because in that we fail.

Why lie? That just proves slaveship to the flesh.

Spirit flesh????????????????
No one is disagreeing with you that this flesh is vile and enmity against the Spirit. You are so fixated on the flesh that you are blinded on how to overcome the flesh. You might want to study what grace is all about and what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm torn. I was saved by old school Pentecostals, so they hammered into me that you can't live like Hell and inherit Heaven. True, that.

But sometimes I think they go a bit too far. If you commit suicide, its automatically Hell. Better stay prayed up and ready to go. And yet...they do discuss some important Biblical concepts, like seared conscience and being handed over to a reprobate mind. I don't recall either the PCUSA church I grew up in or the megachurch my dad sometimes goes to ever discussing those bits of Scripture.

I just don't know. I recently read some CS Lewis for a class and in this piece he said that its part of the Christian experience to come to realize that you can't do it, and then learn to lean upon The Lord out of sheer frustration, if nothing else. Makes sense...I think I'm getting there, lol. I think its only human nature to want to do it all in the flesh, part pride, part...well, I think especially in 21st century, modern cultures, its part of what's hammered into us....an emphasis on choices and personal success.

Gods word is the same yesterday, today and forever and it never comes back to us void, but man will twist it to justify themselves. Walk in the righteousness of God as no one is righteous of them self.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[GodsGrace]

This helped me, perhaps someone else will like the info....Question: "What is hyper-grace?"

Answer: The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism....Compliments of "Got Questions.org

Hi Chopper
I'm no expert on hyper grace. I like to listen to Joseph Prince every now and then because he ties scriptures together really well. I'd say he's of the grace movement; not sure about hyper grace.

He repeatedly says that because we're under God's grace it doesn't mean that we could sin.
He does say that all sin, past, present and future has been forgiven. I'm not familiar enough to speak to the confession and repentance part of this, although this is correct. ALL sin is forgiven. Past, because also those who died before Jesus death and went to wait in Abraham's Bossom are now in heaven. Present and future are self-explanatory.

I also would have to agree that when God looks at us, individually, He does see only the righteousness that we have by honoring His Son Jesus. This doesn't seem wrong to me. We even say that we are to Put On Christ. Romans 13:14 So God sees Christ instead of us.

I've never heard him say that we are not bound by Jesus' teachings. Maybe he's not hyper enough?!

I've said before, I just find it almost impossible to believe there are churches that teach what your post says - basically that we don't have to keep God's commandments.

Wondering

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And all the good actors just don't want to hear of it, and prefer to see themselves and their contrary to and against the Spirit flesh as something other than what it is, denying to their dying flesh breath, that they do NOT have evil present with them. They are merely employing a common cover up over the obvious.

Everyone who gets to Romans 8 in their relationship with God is a lying hypocritical actor? Or are you just perceiving them all to be that way?

 

[JLB]

Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it.

Bullseye!!!
JLB

 

[JLB]

I've never seen any believer rationalize the sins of the flesh.....until now.

JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm torn. I was saved by old school Pentecostals, so they hammered into me that you can't live like Hell and inherit Heaven. True, that.

But sometimes I think they go a bit too far. If you commit suicide, its automatically Hell. Better stay prayed up and ready to go. And yet...they do discuss some important Biblical concepts, like seared conscience and being handed over to a reprobate mind. I don't recall either the PCUSA church I grew up in or the megachurch my dad sometimes goes to ever discussing those bits of Scripture.

I just don't know. I recently read some CS Lewis for a class and in this piece he said that its part of the Christian experience to come to realize that you can't do it, and then learn to lean upon The Lord out of sheer frustration, if nothing else. Makes sense...I think I'm getting there, lol. I think its only human nature to want to do it all in the flesh, part pride, part...well, I think especially in 21st century, modern cultures, its part of what's hammered into us....an emphasis on choices and personal success.

I'm torn. I was saved by old school Pentecostals, so they hammered into me that you can't live like Hell and inherit Heaven. True, that.

But sometimes I think they go a bit too far. If you commit suicide, its automatically Hell. Better stay prayed up and ready to go. And yet...they do discuss some important Biblical concepts, like seared conscience and being handed over to a reprobate mind. I don't recall either the PCUSA church I grew up in or the megachurch my dad sometimes goes to ever discussing those bits of Scripture.

I just don't know. I recently read some CS Lewis for a class and in this piece he said that its part of the Christian experience to come to realize that you can't do it, and then learn to lean upon The Lord out of sheer frustration, if nothing else. Makes sense...I think I'm getting there, lol. I think its only human nature to want to do it all in the flesh, part pride, part...well, I think especially in 21st century, modern cultures, its part of what's hammered into us....an emphasis on choices and personal success.

Hi CE
You know, I was also raised in a church that told you all the things you must do to get to heaven. Of course, we can't possibly live the life they preached. It's impossible. This is what I would call legalism.
They just tell you what you're supposed to do, and you find you can't do it and become discouraged. Everything has to do with the conscience, everything has to do with feeling guilty or scared. Funny, though, I did always ask forgiveness and was sorry and I did trust Jesus in a way I can't explain. I'd have to analyze it one day.

So legalism is bad. It's what I would call "religion." Me trying to please God. Using some kind of formula or ritual, or prayers or whatever. It doesn't get to the heart of the matter...

Then you have what I call "Christianity." Christ. Christ is preached. His sacrifice is taught. How great it was and how necessary it was. How we have a nature that tends toward sinning. How it's ruled by some evil force that is difficult to fight. So God is reaching down to us. Traditional understanding - I take no credit - but I really get it. It's as CS Lewis says. It's God saying, I know YOU can't do it, but I'LL help you and then you'll be able to. This is the leaning on Him. The gratitude we have for what He's done is what makes us want to please Him.

So now we don't keep the commandments because we have to
but because we want to

I can't say this enough times. It's the difference between Law and Grace.

It's a journey Christ Empowered. That's why it's sanctification - it doesn't happen all at once. Jesus accompanies us there, to the final end. And as long as you follow Him and are trusting in Him, He'll always forgive any sins that cause you sorrow and He'll always help you to fight off the evil one.

You should read The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.
Also, Mere Christianity is the best explanation I've ever read of what Christianity is.
This book should be reread every 10 years or so.

Grace is better!

Wondering