Some questions

[reba]

Why did Jesus say ?

Mar_15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Where is satan?

Do we believe the literal words of Jesus? ( kinda making a reference to His words within the scriptures)

 

[Deborah13]

Why did Jesus say ?

Mar_15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Where is satan?

Do we believe the literal words of Jesus? ( kinda making a reference to His words within the scriptures)

I believe at this point when Jesus spoke those words He was totally separated from the Father. It was the only way He could take the penalty for our sin, which really is separation from God.

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Where was satan? I think he was right there, but I don't have scripture to back that up.

 

[reba]

Growing up i always heard God forsake Jesus because God can not look on sin.... at the same time hearing satan is running around heaven some how the two thoughts dont jive...

 

[Eugene]

Why did Jesus say ?
Mar_15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

According to 2 Timothy 3:16 could Jesus have said it to become profitable scripture for instruction in righteousness?
I think the reason Jesus said what He did is that God could not look on sin with the least degree of allowance, and Jesus was outside the camp as it were having become sin for us as unclean exemplified by sacrifices in the tabernacle in which Jesus became the atonement for our sin.

Where is Satan?

He is in heaven accusing us until he will be cast down. Rev 12:10.

Do we believe the literal words of Jesus? ( kinda making a reference to His words within the scriptures)

Are you speaking of the literal Aramaic words Jesus spoke or interpreted ones? Without interpretation I would not be able to believe anything.

 

[reba]

Sheesh Eugene i have too much trouble getting english to try Aramaic

 

[reba]

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Why do most think this is future, then at the time of the Cross?

 

[Eugene]

Sheesh Eugene i have too much trouble getting english to try Aramaic

Well Aramaic is what literal is when Jesus spoke. To read other interpretations just sample different bibles and see if they come out the same.

 

[Eugene]

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Why do most think this is future then at the time of the Cross?

Because it is written subsequent to Revelation 4:1 which John is instructed that the things he sees will be hereafter from that point, and since this isn't the Preterist sub-forum we're not talking Parenthesis Insertions.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't think satan is in heaven accusing us before God.
I think he accuses us to us. he lies to us, trying to steal our faith and confidence in the faithfulness of Jesus for our salvation.

I don't see what good it would do him to accuse us before God. We are covered by the blood and sealed by the Holy Spirit. God looks at us in the righteousness of the Son.

 

[Deborah13]

Quote, Matthew Henry, (Calvanist, Presbyterian,1662-1714, historical view)
"It is generally agreed by the most learned expositors that the narrative we have in this and the two following chapters, from the sounding of the seventh trumpet to the opening of the vials, is not a prediction of things to come, but rather a recapitulation and representation of things past, which, as God would have the apostle to foresee while future, he would have him to review now that they were past, that he might have a more perfect idea of them in his mind, and might observe the agreement between the prophecy and that Providence that is always fulfilling the scriptures."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 12:9&version=KJV

 

[Eugene]

Quote, Matthew Henry, (Calvanist, Presbyterian,1662-1714, historical view)
"It is generally agreed by the most learned expositors that the narrative we have in this and the two following chapters, from the sounding of the seventh trumpet to the opening of the vials, is not a prediction of things to come, but rather a recapitulation and representation of things past, which, as God would have the apostle to foresee while future, he would have him to review now that they were past, that he might have a more perfect idea of them in his mind, and might observe the agreement between the prophecy and that Providence that is always fulfilling the scriptures."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 12:9&version=KJV

I'm of the opinion that you are saying that not all John saw hereafter was hereafter in Revelation 4:1? Do you have reason to believe that Satan waited at Mary's feet to persecute her for bearing Jesus, and then she was swept away and protected for three and one half years? Thanks.

 

[Eugene]

We are covered by the blood and sealed by the Holy Spirit. God looks at us in the righteousness of the Son.

I sure agree with this.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm of the opinion that you are saying that not all John saw hereafter was hereafter in Revelation 4:1? Do you have reason to believe that Satan waited at Mary's feet to persecute her for bearing Jesus, and then she was swept away and protected for three and one half years? Thanks.

Not so long ago, maybe three months I said something close to just that.
Now I thinking that maybe I was wrong and that the woman is the Church. This was the view of almost all of the reformed commentators like M. Henry.

Eugene, I was taught the futurist view, rapture, tribulation, mill..
Over the last 6 mths or so, I have learned a lot, that I did not see before. So I just keep slowly putting things together.

What got me started was that I was NOT aware animal blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin, supposedly being reinstated during the mill. But there it is in scripture, plain as day. I do not believe that will be something that God does in direct conflict with the atonement by the shed blood of our Savior. I just can't reconcile that.
Does that mean all those left after the tribulation will be doing these sacrifices?

Why would that be? Do you see my dilemma? How do you understand this?

 

[reba]

Because it is written subsequent to Revelation 4:1 which John is instructed that the things he sees will be hereafter from that point, and since this isn't the Preterist sub-forum we're not talking Parenthesis Insertions.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

 

[Eugene]

Not so long ago, maybe three months I said something close to just that.
Now I thinking that maybe I was wrong and that the woman is the Church. This was the view of almost all of the reformed commentators like M. Henry.

Eugene, I was taught the futurist view, rapture, tribulation, mill..
Over the last 6 mths or so, I have learned a lot, that I did not see before. So I just keep slowly putting things together.

What got me started was that I was NOT aware animal blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin, supposedly being reinstated during the mill. But there it is in scripture, plain as day. I do not believe that will be something that God does in direct conflict with the atonement by the shed blood of our Savior. I just can't reconcile that.
Does that mean all those left after the tribulation will be doing these sacrifices?

Why would that be? Do you see my dilemma? How do you understand this?

I think I'm following you. Daniel 9:26 I do not know if I can do justice to the following but the people of the prince (Not Jesus) destroy the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD

Dan 9:27 And he (What prince is this) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (What week): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (When is the abomination of Desolation set up?) Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand To explain this the Jews are in the worship using sacrifices again and it is taken away 1290 days before the middle of the tribulation. The antichrist then comes along and makes the covenant with many for seven years but ends it after 1260 days.

Back in Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place we must realize when this was said there was no holy place as such. What The Jewish people considered holy was not what God considered holy, and there was nothing about the temple ravaged by war in 70AD holy either.

My thoughts.

 

[Eugene]

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

From what time in context?

 

[reba]

I would think from the time it was written.......


Beings i am the OP on this thread i can say.... i doubt anyone can take it off topic as the topic is 'questions.'...

 

[Eugene]

I would think from the time it was written.......


Beings i am the OP on this thread i can say.... i doubt anyone can take it off topic as the topic is 'questions.'...

Oh now I see the problem. Okay, when does John say it was?

 

[Deborah13]

I think I'm following you. Daniel 9:26 I do not know if I can do justice to the following but the people of the prince (Not Jesus) destroy the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD

Dan 9:27 And he (What prince is this) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (What week): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (When is the abomination of Desolation set up?) Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand To explain this the Jews are in the worship using sacrifices again and it is taken away 1290 days before the middle of the tribulation. The antichrist then comes along and makes the covenant with many for seven years but ends it after 1260 days.

Back in Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place we must realize when this was said there was no holy place as such. What The Jewish people considered holy was not what God considered holy, and there was nothing about the temple ravaged by war in 70AD holy either.

My thoughts.

I wasn't clear, sorry. I wasn't referring to Daniel or Revelation directly.

In Ezekiel, which I used to believe was a description of the 1,000 yr reign, it says that there will be blood sacrifices for the atonement of sin in the future, during the millennium. If am to believe that Ezekiel is literal, as I was taught, then I have to also believe that there will be literal blood sacrifices for sin during the millennium while Jesus in on the earth, as well as those who lived through the tribulation and the saints.

I do not believe that will be something that God does, because it would be in direct conflict with the atonement by the shed blood of our Savior. I just can't reconcile that.
Does that mean all those left after the tribulation (Jew and Gentile alike) will be doing these sacrifices?
Why would that be? I thought Jesus' sacrifice at the cross was one time for all? And if one rejects Jesus there is no other sacrifice for sin, and yet Ezekiel says animal sacrifices will be reinstituted? Do you see my dilemma? How do you understand this?

 

[reba]

Oh now I see the problem. Okay, when does John say it was?

not sure what you are asking Eugene....

I would just think it was from when God John the words....via the angel
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.