Suicide & Hell

[Not_Now.Soon]

If life and death is in Gods hands, then who is doing the killing? Not you, not me.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

He sets it before us, not you, not me.

Reread the context of that verse. Chapter 30 should be enough. But here's the line that matters. "Therefore choose life."

 

[righteyealenna]

Reread the context of that verse. Chapter 30 should be enough. But here's the line that matters. "Therefore choose life."

And that's the only choice you have!

 

[th1b.taylor]

And that's the only choice you have!

Young lady, he's right.There is a rule, a principal or what ever your generation calls it that assures safe rendering of the scriptures and it looks like you are ignoring it here. It goes, "No scripture can be fully understood until the light of all other scripture shines upon it." From that you should be able to understand that the context and the contextual implications are continuous from "In the beginning..." through the very last Amen of Revelation 22.

 

[Michael74]

When we accepted Jesus as Lord, we agreed to submit to His rule. Jesus chooses how long we sojourn on earth, and when we go home. It is not our decision to make.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Well no one's trying to say suicide is okay to do...at least I'd hope not.

 

[righteyealenna]

Young lady, he's right.There is a rule, a principal or what ever your generation calls it that assures safe rendering of the scriptures and it looks like you are ignoring it here. It goes, "No scripture can be fully understood until the light of all other scripture shines upon it." From that you should be able to understand that the context and the contextual implications are continuous from "In the beginning..." through the very last Amen of Revelation 22.

True, that's why I always keep a bible handy at black outs.

 

[smaller]

I've had friends, very close friends, that committed suicide. I witness the Love of God in Christ to all, particularly my close friends. Yet, they killed themselves. Some had even accepted God in Christ, prayed with me, to receive Him.

Do I have HOPE for them? Yes, every last bit of HOPE I can possibly muster, in my own present darkness. I know that I will see them again, and they now know it as well. One of my closest friends had been demonically tormented for years, with deep and very dark depression. So dark that "they" immobilized him, where he could not get their veil off of his mind and heart. Yes, I had to witness the torment that this man carried within, for decades. We both knew it was not him, and, after we had, after many years, prayed together in faith for Christ for himself, which Love he resisted for so long, he had a few years of peace and stability. But one day, they returned, and overwhelmed him. And he gave up fighting them, and in fact took vengeance upon them, I believe, by taking his flesh body away from his tormentors in suicide.

Do I blame him? No. I knew his torments and his tormentors. They deserved to be made homeless.

 

[righteyealenna]

I've had friends, very close friends, that committed suicide. I witness the Love of God in Christ to all, particularly my close friends. Yet, they killed themselves. Some had even accepted God in Christ, prayed with me, to receive Him.

Do I have HOPE for them? Yes, every last bit of HOPE I can possibly muster, in my own present darkness. I know that I will see them again, and they now know it as well. One of my closest friends had been demonically tormented for years, with deep and very dark depression. So dark that "they" immobilized him, where he could not get their veil off of his mind and heart. Yes, I had to witness the torment that this man carried within, for decades. We both knew it was not him, and, after we had, after many years, prayed together in faith for Christ for himself, which Love he resisted for so long, he had a few years of peace and stability. But one day, they returned, and overwhelmed him. And he gave up fighting them, and in fact took vengeance upon them, I believe, by taking his flesh body away from his tormentors in suicide.

Do I blame him? No. I knew his torments and his tormentors. They deserved to be made homeless.

Spiritually head punching them now.

 

[Brother Mike]

I profess OSAS. When I was suicidal one of my reasons for not going through with it was that by abandoning my life I would be walking out on any plans God had and that even if I was in heaven I would regret my decision and God would not be happy with my decision either.

There can be a lot of causes for the illness type of depression. To my very rudimentary understanding, it's basically a hormone balance thing that leads to this--your mind can be sick just as your body can. It gets to be too much and you're not thinking clearly in that state of mind...you can't, it's like something is controlling you. Who wants to go through life feeling like that all the time? If you could change it, you definitely would. When by the grace of God I finally got out of it, I was terrified that it would happen again.

You can't help being in mental pain anymore than you can help being in physical pain, even if better choices beforehand might have prevented either. (And the brain processes both types of pain in the same place.) Someone can be in so much physical pain that they feel like they can't bear it and might temporarily wish to die to get out of it, right? Mental pain can be like that, too, except it's over a longer period of time usually.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(2Co 10:5)

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(Rom 12:2)

Jas_1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

So, Hormone imbalance causes the Word of God to be powerless. That is what your saying. You say it's like something else has control. Who might that be? We tend to forget we have a whole lot of voice in this world, they all have a sound. A good chunk of them are the devil and his kingdom.

People don't wake up one day and say, "I might as well kill myself, nobody cares, I can't take it any more."

Something has to lead them down that path, and build thought upon thought. It's like the guy who grabbed the child and raped and murdered them. It started looking at some porn two years back, then soon the flesh can not be satisfied, so it progressed to worse things. It builds, until the child is taken two years later. That is not a hormone issue, if it was, they would not have to go to jail.

Cancer the same way, the same Word that says be transformed by the Renewing of your Mind, also says by His striped ye are healed. We don't accept the diagnoses of cancer, any more than we accept one thought that is contrary to What God said about you.

 

[evenifigoalone]

So, Hormone imbalance causes the Word of God to be powerless. That is what your saying. You say it's like something else has control. Who might that be? We tend to forget we have a whole lot of voice in this world, they all have a sound. A good chunk of them are the devil and his kingdom.

People don't wake up one day and say, "I might as well kill myself, nobody cares, I can't take it any more."

Something has to lead them down that path, and build thought upon thought. It's like the guy who grabbed the child and raped and murdered them. It started looking at some porn two years back, then soon the flesh can not be satisfied, so it progressed to worse things. It builds, until the child is taken two years later. That is not a hormone issue, if it was, they would not have to go to jail.

You really don't know what it's like unless you've been there. This* is the most accurate description of what it's like to live with clinical depression I've seen--at least, based on my own experience with it. *(Trigger warning: descriptions of self harm.) But it's still hard to really grasp unless you've experienced it.

I used to think the dark things came from demons encouraging the dark thoughts, but...IDK, that seems like saying "the devil broke my leg", or "the devil caused my heart attack". Bodily injuries and illnesses happen, mental illnesses happen, and it's not always about demons. Not to say they can't influence things, but eh.

People don't wake up one day and say, "I might as well kill myself, nobody cares, I can't take it any more."

Correct, they don't. You don't start out just wanting to die. The depression wears you down, all of your reserves of strength, until you begin thinking about dying, considering the pros and cons. As time goes on, you begin to long for it. Eventually, you're pushed so far you will go through with it.
Of course there are more issues than just depression, but that's the one I'm most familiar with...and I'm sure there are similarities, anyway. I would think you would have to be in great mental anguish to die, if that weren't so, there'd be no reason to want to escape so badly.
Also, suicidal and mental issues doesn't always mean committing crimes...though there are individuals there, too. Not that I'm an expert, because I'm not, but I would say that functional issues are also at play there--simply because no one in their right mind is going to kill themselves.

I'm not saying that the Word of God has no power over this, no. That'd be like saying God can't heal a cancer patient...of course He can. But I'm not for telling individuals in this state of mind that they're there because they don't have enough faith. An individual isn't any more at fault for having mental illness than they would be for having cancer.

 

[Blake]

I used to think very hard-lined on this issue with a resounding yes. Now I don't know, and I am fine with that answer. I have no idea what happens.

I like to think I will meet Robin Williams in heaven. I know he didn't have it all together (do any of us really), but his movies got me through a lot of the dark days of my childhood. The announcement of his suicide last year broke my heart.

 

[Brother Mike]

You really don't know what it's like unless you've been there. This* is the most accurate description of what it's like to live with clinical depression I've seen--at least, based on my own experience with it. *(Trigger warning: descriptions of self harm.) But it's still hard to really grasp unless you've experienced it.

I used to think the dark things came from demons encouraging the dark thoughts, but...IDK, that seems like saying "the devil broke my leg", or "the devil caused my heart attack". Bodily injuries and illnesses happen, mental illnesses happen, and it's not always about demons. Not to say they can't influence things, but eh.


Correct, they don't. You don't start out just wanting to die. The depression wears you down, all of your reserves of strength, until you begin thinking about dying, considering the pros and cons. As time goes on, you begin to long for it. Eventually, you're pushed so far you will go through with it.
Of course there are more issues than just depression, but that's the one I'm most familiar with...and I'm sure there are similarities, anyway. I would think you would have to be in great mental anguish to die, if that weren't so, there'd be no reason to want to escape so badly.
Also, suicidal and mental issues doesn't always mean committing crimes...though there are individuals there, too. Not that I'm an expert, because I'm not, but I would say that functional issues are also at play there--simply because no one in their right mind is going to kill themselves.

I'm not saying that the Word of God has no power over this, no. That'd be like saying God can't heal a cancer patient...of course He can. But I'm not for telling individuals in this state of mind that they're there because they don't have enough faith. An individual isn't any more at fault for having mental illness than they would be for having cancer.

As a believer, we can learn to be aware of Mental illness trying to grab us. Jesus did not tell someone they needed meds, He spoke to the spirit behind the mental issues. Some issues so server that you actually have to cast the devil out of someone.

Scripture says that Jesus went about healing all that were sick and oppressed of the devil. There were none who where just sick, or oppressed that devils had no involvement.

The women bound crippled for 18 years, Jesus said it was Satan that had her bound.
Peter who thought He was standing up for the Lord, Jesus rebuked Satan who was behind the thoughts Peter was having.

Satan is the Father of Lies, and mental illness takes hold and believes Lies (John 8:44)

Cancer, Mental Illness, car accident, There are many spirits in this world looking to set us up, and take us out. How they get it done does not really matter.

The big one is to guard against bitterness, and being offended. Many serious mental illness start by not casting these thoughts down, and refusing to think on them.

Mental Illness has to come on someone slowly. Nobody wakes up stark raving mad, and believers should be Word focused and be casting things out that don't line up with the Word.

Scripture says cast down every thought and imagination that comes against the knowledge of the Word. Now that means everyone can do that, or it would not be in scriptures. Scripture did not say for those who can't, or those who think they have chemical imbalances. The fact is, wrong thinking, fears, cause changes in the body and chemical imbalances in the first place.

Does that make a believer responsible and send them to hell for Killing themselves? I am not the judge.

I used to think very hard-lined on this issue with a resounding yes. Now I don't know, and I am fine with that answer. I have no idea what happens.

I like to think I will meet Robin Williams in heaven. I know he didn't have it all together (do any of us really), but his movies got me through a lot of the dark days of my childhood. The announcement of his suicide last year broke my heart.

http://mrconservative.com/2014/08/47516-did-robin-williams-die-of-autoerotic-asphyxiation/
While the mainstream media continues to report that Robin Williams committed suicide, the truth is a very different story. New evidence shows that the beloved actor may have died in an autoerotic asphyxiation accident.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Have to admit I am somewhat more scientific minded when it comes to these matters, I look for an observable explanation based on study and research. I'm not trying to say demon possession and the like isn't possible. I'm not qualified to say what was and was not mental illness in the people Jesus healed, so I won't try. To what degree beings of the spiritual realm play in mental illness I couldn't say, but I'm inclined to look at science first since we do have data on different mental illnesses and causes, even if there's still a lot we don't know. Illness is when something with our bodies goes wrong, our minds have things that can go wrong just as our physical bodies do. The Bible does seem to suggest cases that were entirely fixed once the demons were cast out, but I don't think that's how all mental illness is. It doesn't seem to resonate with all cases of mental illness.

Aside, I think you're oversimplifying this, I really really do. I eventually recovered from my depression without meds and with a lot of prayer and by forcing a fast on the (completely innocent) thing I had formed a mental addiction to--but it took time. Weeks of agony (that's once I successfully began the fast--in the months before I had tried and failed countless times) and months of fearing to get back into that state of mind, freaking out and thinking it was back when I experienced an aftershock or two, until about one year later when I finally felt like I was beginning to leave it behind me and God said to me that it took time to heal from such a deep wound.
Not everyone's case is going to be the same, we don't entirely know what causes depression sometimes, or the reasons may be far more deepseated and complex than mine were. I know what the cause of mine was and yeah I pin the blame on myself--especially when I was still suffering from it. (Depressed people blame themselves for everything, actually. That's why the "here's what you did wrong and here's how to fix it, just do it, come on it isn't hard" approach doesn't work so well.)

I don't know, it seems like going off on a cancer patient for eating junk food--yeah, maybe that was the cause of their cancer (or maybe not), but that doesn't change the fact that they have cancer and need support and treatment.

 

[Brother Mike]

Have to admit I am somewhat more scientific minded when it comes to these matters, I look for an observable explanation based on study and research. I'm not trying to say demon possession and the like isn't possible. I'm not qualified to say what was and was not mental illness in the people Jesus healed, so I won't try. To what degree beings of the spiritual realm play in mental illness I couldn't say, but I'm inclined to look at science first since we do have data on different mental illnesses and causes, even if there's still a lot we don't know. Illness is when something with our bodies goes wrong, our minds have things that can go wrong just as our physical bodies do. The Bible does seem to suggest cases that were entirely fixed once the demons were cast out, but I don't think that's how all mental illness is. It doesn't seem to resonate with all cases of mental illness.

Aside, I think you're oversimplifying this, I really really do. I eventually recovered from my depression without meds and with a lot of prayer and by forcing a fast on the (completely innocent) thing I had formed a mental addiction to--but it took time. Weeks of agony (that's once I successfully began the fast--in the months before I had tried and failed countless times) and months of fearing to get back into that state of mind, freaking out and thinking it was back when I experienced an aftershock or two, until about one year later when I finally felt like I was beginning to leave it behind me and God said to me that it took time to heal from such a deep wound.
Not everyone's case is going to be the same, we don't entirely know what causes depression sometimes, or the reasons may be far more deepseated and complex than mine were. I know what the cause of mine was and yeah I pin the blame on myself--especially when I was still suffering from it. (Depressed people blame themselves for everything, actually. That's why the "here's what you did wrong and here's how to fix it, just do it, come on it isn't hard" approach doesn't work so well.)

I don't know, it seems like going off on a cancer patient for eating junk food--yeah, maybe that was the cause of their cancer (or maybe not), but that doesn't change the fact that they have cancer and need support and treatment.

How the Heck can I be over simplifying when you did not take meds, and through prayer, and the fact the Lord loves you, and is an extremely awesome God who is just amazing heals you. How is that scientific? I think your feeding me a line between what you actually believe, and what you think you believe.

The bible calls faith a substance we can't see....... (Heb 11:1) Has to be science behind that with no physical tools that are able to measure it, but I it is measured none the less, as God said He gave every man a "MEASURE" of that Faith that can't be seen.

The Unseen, controls the seen, so the Real science is in the thing where the physical started. I know you understood that.

Me, Me, and Me, I was mentally sick. I was convinced at one point in my life my food was poisoned. It started back in the 80's with the Tylenol thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders

Always stuck in the back of my mind, but in the 90's I kept thinking on it more and more. What if those grapes had cyanide injected into them. It can happen you know. It got to the point, I could not eat unless someone else tasted it, like my kids or wife. Now how sick is that?
I was depressed, and in fear every single day. Some nights after I ate, I thought my heart was stopping, and that caused more panic, which made the heart race and made me think it must be true, I had finally been poisoned, they got me.

None of that is science, something back in the 80's I did not know better to cast down stayed with me and grew inside me. When I got saved in 96 it was not until 97 I ran across this.

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Mar 16:18)

So, Now I had a choice of what to believe. Tylenol, or Jesus. Not a very hard choice. To make it more effective that the scripture is true, they put bleach and window cleaner in my coffee in the Kitchen I worked as a inmate in prison. I took a big gulp before I realized what had happened. Guess what scripture came to mind? I told this story enough though.

A guy just nuts walking into the Homeless shelter I was at. Screaming all the time Satan is Lord, Jesus is Lord, he don't know, but we knew to avoid his crazy butt. Nobody could talk to him, He made no sense, and would carry on until He fell asleep and left for where ever he left for.

You know all it took was throwing that evil spirit out of him, and He is perfectly sane? Freaked out all the Homeless guys I was with, but it was a strange day. Then I have a guy screaming at me that I can't cast him out. He runs out the door before I tired to figure out how to respond to that. All on the same day.

I don't think I am making it to simple. It takes one of use to seek God for someone else and get the answer, I am convinced the Lord always has the answer for someone who is depressed to the point they can't see up any more.

Long enough.

 

[evenifigoalone]

How the Heck can I be over simplifying when you did not take meds, and through prayer, and the fact the Lord loves you, and is an extremely awesome God who is just amazing heals you. How is that scientific? I think your feeding me a line between what you actually believe, and what you think you believe.

No, there is a scientific explanation for what happened to me. I don't have the knowledge to explain it adequately, but a few months back we had a member on this forum explaining how the brain forms addictions. And the way I got out of it works according to scientific principles as well--take away the thing my mind had formed a dependence on, and it was forced to rewire itself correctly.

As for how I was healed, I don't assume everyone was like me or their path needs to or is going to be the same as mine. There are different kinds of mental illness, different causes, different needs. At this point I lack the knowledge to explain myself adequately since it's going away from my familiar territory, but there is more out there than depression or addiction and it's simply not that easy.

If we're going to take this stance on mental illness that all it takes is faith, why not be consistent and reject any and all scientific understanding of and treatment for physical illness as well? Just take everyone to the church to be prayed over and healed, no more hospitals.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You really don't know what it's like unless you've been there. This* is the most accurate description of what it's like to live with clinical depression I've seen--at least, based on my own experience with it. *(Trigger warning: descriptions of self harm.) But it's still hard to really grasp unless you've experienced it.

I used to think the dark things came from demons encouraging the dark thoughts, but...IDK, that seems like saying "the devil broke my leg", or "the devil caused my heart attack". Bodily injuries and illnesses happen, mental illnesses happen, and it's not always about demons. Not to say they can't influence things, but eh.


Correct, they don't. You don't start out just wanting to die. The depression wears you down, all of your reserves of strength, until you begin thinking about dying, considering the pros and cons. As time goes on, you begin to long for it. Eventually, you're pushed so far you will go through with it.
Of course there are more issues than just depression, but that's the one I'm most familiar with...and I'm sure there are similarities, anyway. I would think you would have to be in great mental anguish to die, if that weren't so, there'd be no reason to want to escape so badly.
Also, suicidal and mental issues doesn't always mean committing crimes...though there are individuals there, too. Not that I'm an expert, because I'm not, but I would say that functional issues are also at play there--simply because no one in their right mind is going to kill themselves.

I'm not saying that the Word of God has no power over this, no. That'd be like saying God can't heal a cancer patient...of course He can. But I'm not for telling individuals in this state of mind that they're there because they don't have enough faith. An individual isn't any more at fault for having mental illness than they would be for having cancer.

And again you have answered as well as anyone I have ever read. I was not a saved man when I wanted to die but I was called and fighting the call because I determined myself unfit and un deserving of God's mercy and grace. I know from experience that if you have not been in the shoes of one that is suicidal, you cannot know. My dad had, during WW II fought his way through Indochina (Vietnam) and he knew why I was revolunteering to go to Vietnam. He, being a small man, was trained and served as a Combat Field Medic and, certainly, dealt with PTSD, then know as Shell Shock, and when I departed the second time he was three weeks drunk grieving for me.

Folks, please read and then reread, a time or two, the book of Job. Then remember, the only person, or thing if you, really, must, more powerful than an Angel/Demon/Satan is God. And like it or not God gives Satan the power over individuals to test them in powerful ways. I will not stand, flat footed, and proclaim that Lucifer/Satan can cause the Chemical Imbalance found in the Suicidal but I will say that this what I believe to be true. (conditional: He/it must has the, not blessing, permission of the Father to perform such a thing.)

 

[smaller]

No, there is a scientific explanation for what happened to me. I don't have the knowledge to explain it adequately, but a few months back we had a member on this forum explaining how the brain forms addictions. And the way I got out of it works according to scientific principles as well--take away the thing my mind had formed a dependence on, and it was forced to rewire itself correctly.

As for how I was healed, I don't assume everyone was like me or their path needs to or is going to be the same as mine. There are different kinds of mental illness, different causes, different needs. At this point I lack the knowledge to explain myself adequately since it's going away from my familiar territory, but there is more out there than depression or addiction and it's simply not that easy.

If we're going to take this stance on mental illness that all it takes is faith, why not be consistent and reject any and all scientific understanding of and treatment for physical illness as well? Just take everyone to the church to be prayed over and healed, no more hospitals.

It's a horrible thing to deal with. There is a "stream of thoughts" that continually runs through the minds of everyone, even if we're not always aware of it. And that is at the core of depression. And yes, there are definitely things that people can do to both their body and their mind that can trigger the adverse thought streams that bring depression.

Let's face the facts also, that we all have, essentially, a body that is doomed to fail, over time. It is MEANT to perish. No amount of hoo haa christian charismatic religious fervency is going to cure a person with Alzheimers, barring of course, a miracle, but miracles are in very short supply. I get sick of charismaniacs who try to cure every ill by their supposed POWER POWER POWER. There are other POWERS that are also running in this world that are also meant to run their courses. I can appreciate, a very small degree, of such charismatic optimism, but seldom is there really any substance behind it. It's more of an exercise of personal ego in Christ(?).

The brain simply wears out and wears down and eventually fails.

I watched this a couple days ago, and it was quite interesting. It's about how the brain fails, yet what is therein really is still there, but it reduces down, to a lower section of the brain, and a lot of memories are still stored therein, and these people were vivified a bit more, even with Alzheimers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kTJa7duW-Q&list=FLoUfKb-Dh0YSzbe2ovRFceg

 

[smaller]

And again you have answered as well as anyone I have ever read. I was not a saved man when I wanted to die but I was called and fighting the call because I determined myself unfit and un deserving of God's mercy and grace. I know from experience that if you have not been in the shoes of one that is suicidal, you cannot know. My dad had, during WW II fought his way through Indochina (Vietnam) and he knew why I was revolunteering to go to Vietnam. He, being a small man, was trained and served as a Combat Field Medic and, certainly, dealt with PTSD, then know as Shell Shock, and when I departed the second time he was three weeks drunk grieving for me.

Folks, please read and then reread, a time or two, the book of Job. Then remember, the only person, or thing if you, really, must, more powerful than an Angel/Demon/Satan is God. And like it or not God gives Satan the power over individuals to test them in powerful ways. I will not stand, flat footed, and proclaim that Lucifer/Satan can cause the Chemical Imbalance found in the Suicidal but I will say that this what I believe to be true. (conditional: He/it must has the, not blessing, permission of the Father to perform such a thing.)

A friend of mine's son returned a few years ago from Afghanistan. He pulled two stints, 2 1/2 years in Iraq and then 2 1/2 in Afghanistan. Mostly frontline stuff. Facing that death tension everyday. Witnessing death up front and personal. Killing others. What a horrible thing to experience. I can not imagine the torture this brings to a person's mind/soul. Beyond imaginations. He was reluctant to return to the U.S. and seriously considered just staying in the field, as he did not think he could ever return to "normal life." There is a kind of mental Stockholm syndrome that comes from these experiences. And of course he will never ditch those memories either. Over time, his wounds were salved, and he grew some mental scabs and scars over them, so he could relocate his life in civilian clothes.

 

[stovebolts]

I know two people who committed suicide. Seems to me they were trying to escape hell... and for their now 17 year old son who is left with the state to raise him, he finds comfort knowing that his parents are now at rest, no longer to be tormented by their fears.
Life isn't fair, and for some, it becomes unbearable. Fears, hopelessness, and trauma can engulf a person where it doesn't matter where they look, all they see is their life and the things they care about falling apart around them. For them, they are escaping hell in search of relief from the pain that binds them to this earth.
I'm not to judge where his parents are (heaven or hell), but I have enough compassion to let their son think well of his parents, and that their suffering has ceased. Their son understood their suffering and he now he believes they are resting in a place without suffering, and that satisfies him, and that gives me rest. To tell him otherwise would be cruel, and mean hearted and would torment him.

I don't like it when a single act is reasoned down to a line in the sand... heaven or hell. It's like drawing a line in the sand about baptism... We don't "earn" our way into heaven, and if this is true, we certainly don't loose it through what we "do" either. It's not about what we do, it's about what HE did.

 

[smaller]

Suicide of friends and relatives have left deep holes and scars in my soul, that I will never fill, til I see them again.