Bible Study The Bible as final authority ????

[Kidron]

-
Recently i was speaking with someone here and they made a comment that i found a bit startling and also sad.
They told me that ..."of course the bible is full of contradictions".
So, if they believe that, then what can they possibly have in their life, in their Christian experience , as their final authority in matters of Christian Doctrine and Christian Discipleship. ??
It ither has to be their particular church teaching, or it has to be their opinion., as that is all that is left if a person does not have the Bible as their final authority, with the New Testament being the specific final authority for a born again Christian.

The fact is, Jesus left the planet long before any Letter(s) that created the New Testament were ever written or bundled together as a "Bible".
Another fact is, all the Apostles were dead long before any of their letters were recopied and eventually used to create a Bible that could be read by the masses.

So, as our Bible tells us that the true " Body of Christ", the "Church", which is comprised of each believer, ....as our bible tells us that the "Body" is built on Jesus and the Prophets and the Apostles (who were all long dead before any mass Bible was ever created)....then if all we have left to "build the church" is the Torah that is joined to the letters of the Apostles, then what else do we have that LITERALLY gives us the original idea of Christianity and Discipleship and Doctrine.??

So, based on how this member here sarcastically said that "of course the bible is full of contradictions", then i wanted to respond in this Thread, with something to think about.

We should all understand that without the Epistles left by dead Apostles, that we'd have no church or pastor or priest or communion, or any idea of Jesus even being born or crucified.
It is the BIBLE, and specially the New Testament which created the Catholic and Protestant Churches.
And without it, there is no Church of any kind, as the BIBLE produced everything that a Church believes and teaches.
As a matter of fact, the very idea of a local church or any church, is a Bible idea, its a design that is found in a letter that an apostle wrote.
So, this forum member, seemed to be implying that its their Church which generated the Bible, and its not the Bible (epistles) which created the Church.

So, my pov, is that the Bible (and not one of the 30 extant greek texts), but the BIBLE is the Final authority for a Christian in all subjects, regarding how to become a Christian, and containing the entirety of what you need to learn and know to be effective as a disciple and pleasing to God as a child of God.
Were it not for the Bible, a Christian would have no idea of Heaven, of Hell, and would not even know that the Lord is coming back., as these are not church inventions, but they are true facts that are only found in a Bible., within the scriptures.
Were it not for a bible, then not one Christian on this forum, would be a Christian.
The "church", as in that building that you go to to get your communion or hear your sermon, and see your friends, is secondary to the Bible..... and its very authority as given by the "5-fold ministry", comes from the Bible, and is to be controlled BY the Bible, and not the other way around.


K
<><

 

[th1b.taylor]

In the different Christian forums on the web I, like you, have been assaulted with this lie that the Bible is full of errors but if we search we can find the Word of God. As you and I know, we have our personal conflicts but we are not in conflict on this matter. I teach and I do my ¿feeble? best to live by the truth that the Bible is the Word of God and to live by that Word found in the scriptures.

I understand, after many sessions with various people how they arrive at this Satan driven conclusion and I know that what they do must never be done. They arrive at this point of Heresy by one of two methods;
...1. Because their ¿shepard? is a heretic as per the second reason.
...2. Because they have segmented the scriptures and, usually, refuse to even consider what I call the First Rule of Hermeneutics (The most important).

The one, absolutely incontrovertible, rule of Hermeneutics is, "No Scripture, selection of Scripture Verses nor collection of Scriptures can ever be fully understood without the light of all other Scripture shinning, and I´ll add, directly, on it/them.

With this comes a required understanding that the God inspired Bible is of one Author, God, penned by, more or less, forty penmen and is of one continuous context from beginning to end, from "In the beginning, through the very last Amen of Revelation 22.

When we parse the Holy Scriptures into divided parcels we have, as the Word of God puts it, "gone awhoring," chasing after other God's.

Until our Savior returns or until we transition into Heaven, the Bible, absolutely is the final Court of Arbitration.

Good post, important subject, brother.

 

[smaller]

Free mentioned something yesterday that I agree with and have known for a long time, as most do, I'm sure,

that the Bible says a LOT of things. A lot.

Really, what any of us make of it is more of a matter of our own "subjective" reflections in engagements. And, this reality is shown in Hebrews 4:12. That the Word reflects, more than anything, what really is in our own hearts. And no, we do NOT, no not one of us, have A PERFECT REFLECTION. Though I like to see every believer through that hope upon them, including myself. I figure if I look long enough and hard enough, that Jesus Himself, will someday show up IN THEM, Perfectly. This, in many ways, is how the Lord Returns. We are to treat each others as if the other believer is Jesus. We are all a part of His Body, after all.

So, would you condemn a body part of Jesus? Would you say a less comely part is not a part?

Others that I respect describe it as, "when we study The Word, The Word is really studying us." Which is quite startling if you think about it.

I have, and will continue to "seek" His Perfect Reflection. I already KNOW for no uncertain fact that the Spirit of God in Christ is already "in my temple." But has not yet been "fully" revealed. He is, however, at the door. That can be flung open at any time.

And for no uncertain fact, none of us OR any of the writers claimed to have had that.

1 Corinthians 13:
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

To worship God, in truth, is to bow before Him with partial and imperfect sights and even 'evil' thoughts. This is called "honesty i.e. TRUTH" and God honors that honesty, as it is of Him and from Him. God's Word does provide an "honest" reflection, to His own.

I look and wait for His Perfect Reflection. As do we all. This is the basis of our mutual HOPE.

In the meantime, we all suffer with our mutual imperfections. And THAT is called "patience" and "long suffering." A couple of other Divine Qualities that accompany "honesty."

So, when any person, imperfect, even I, hold up the Word of God, that is one thing. I understand however that The Word does in fact "live" in me.

Every Word of God is meant for "our" life. Yes, even the bad ones.

Luke 4:4, Matt. 4:4

 

[smaller]

I've also learned, from the B I B L E, that most people do not like or care to hear, the more dire aspects of our reflections. This is also a certain spiritual principle. No one likes to have a "really honest" reflection. None of us "really" want "exposures" of our imperfections from God's Sights. All of us, for no uncertain fact RUN away like mad men, when this aspect comes into view.

Nevertheless, if we seek His Perfect Reflection, it is mandatory to look at why that is not so, presently. It is here, that God's Words provide our greatest challenges, and the finest of tools to deploy against our own imperfections.

A person who can not stand HONESTLY under His Glaring Infinitely Shining Light, is not apt to reflect as well.

Nevertheless, the quest is there, and that is where we are directed to observe:

Psalm 18:28
For thou wilt light my candle: the Lord my God will enlighten my darkness.

Every prophet of the Lord, encountered their own "woe is me." And that encounter is Rock Solid and from God in Christ.

 

[smaller]

Spiritual spelunkers are my favorite brothers and sisters. I have many such friends in the faith.

We are not afraid of the caverns. Our own caverns, that is. The Light of the Lord was always meant to shine, within.

He sits in there, in the Mercy Seat. With two wings of the covering cherub shadowing the seat. In a strange way, protecting us from God's Overwhelming Mercy. This Mercy of God is what will ultimately "destroy" or "change" our flesh body.

Yes, a very real Divine Power. Believers who find it will run out of the cave, shouting MERCY! They will go half mad for sheer joy.

Isaiah 16:5
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle-

 

[Kidron]

In the different Christian forums on the web I, like you, have been assaulted with this lie that the Bible is full of errors but if we search we can find the Word of God. As you and I know, we have our personal conflicts but we are not in conflict on this matter. I teach and I do my ¿feeble? best to live by the truth that the Bible is the Word of God and to live by that Word found in the scriptures.

I understand, after many sessions with various people how they arrive at this Satan driven conclusion and I know that what they do must never be done. They arrive at this point of Heresy by one of two methods;
...1. Because their ¿shepard? is a heretic as per the second reason.
...2. Because they have segmented the scriptures and, usually, refuse to even consider what I call the First Rule of Hermeneutics (The most important).

The one, absolutely incontrovertible, rule of Hermeneutics is, "No Scripture, selection of Scripture Verses nor collection of Scriptures can ever be fully understood without the light of all other Scripture shinning, and I´ll add, directly, on it/them.

With this comes a required understanding that the God inspired Bible is of one Author, God, penned by, more or less, forty penmen and is of one continuous context from beginning to end, from "In the beginning, through the very last Amen of Revelation 22.

When we parse the Holy Scriptures into divided parcels we have, as the Word of God puts it, "gone awhoring," chasing after other God's.

Until our Savior returns or until we transition into Heaven, the Bible, absolutely is the final Court of Arbitration.

Good post, important subject, brother.

I see that you had already thought deeply and long about this most important subject, and i certainly agree with you..

 

[Sinthesis]

It seems quite vain to assume one has identified a contradiction in the bible, as an alternate explanation is that one is simply reading it wrong.

 

[smaller]

It seems quite vain to assume one has identified a contradiction in the bible, as an alternate explanation is that one is simply reading it wrong.

Indeed. Scripture is an odd meal, as noted by a couple of writers.

It tastes good in our mouth, but is bitter in the belly. (within)

 

[Douglas Summers]

-
what else do we have that LITERALLY gives us the original idea of Christianity and Discipleship and Doctrine.??

In the beginning God spoke directly to man and walked with him until disobedience. The interference between God and man's direct fellowship was and is Satan. Having disobeyed God by the guile of Satan, man acquired the knowledge of good and evil. What that means is that now man felt the results of disobedience upon the soul and the flesh, which is bitter, to good, which is obedience to God, that brings peace and joy of life.

If men, who walked directly with God in the beginning did not believe Him, then faith would be the test of man for fellowship,.so He spoke and speaks to man through His appointed scribes and prophets, and in these last days through the Son, who is the exact representation of the Father.
So do not be surprised when Satan still calls God a liar and tries to still beguile men by putting doubt in to God's word as He did from the beginning. To really understand how Satan beguiled Eve, study the instructions God gave man about the Garden, and Satan's interpretation of what God said to Eve.

It is still that way to this very day, and Satan is still the same from the beginning ( a liar and a murderer.) He will use the unstable, liars and the self willed to cause people to build upon the sand (not trusting Jesus). Of course the Bible is true to every word, and the only discrepancies that occur are to those who are carnal.

 

[Edward]

Free mentioned something yesterday that I agree with and have known for a long time, as most do, I'm sure,

that the Bible says a LOT of things. A lot.

Really, what any of us make of it is more of a matter of our own "subjective" reflections in engagements. And, this reality is shown in Hebrews 4:12. That the Word reflects, more than anything, what really is in our own hearts. And no, we do NOT, no not one of us, have A PERFECT REFLECTION. Though I like to see every believer through that hope upon them, including myself. I figure if I look long enough and hard enough, that Jesus Himself, will someday show up IN THEM, Perfectly. This, in many ways, is how the Lord Returns. We are to treat each others as if the other believer is Jesus. We are all a part of His Body, after all.

So, would you condemn a body part of Jesus? Would you say a less comely part is not a part?

Others that I respect describe it as, "when we study The Word, The Word is really studying us." Which is quite startling if you think about it.

I have, and will continue to "seek" His Perfect Reflection. I already KNOW for no uncertain fact that the Spirit of God in Christ is already "in my temple." But has not yet been "fully" revealed. He is, however, at the door. That can be flung open at any time.

And for no uncertain fact, none of us OR any of the writers claimed to have had that.

1 Corinthians 13:
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

To worship God, in truth, is to bow before Him with partial and imperfect sights and even 'evil' thoughts. This is called "honesty i.e. TRUTH" and God honors that honesty, as it is of Him and from Him. God's Word does provide an "honest" reflection, to His own.

I look and wait for His Perfect Reflection. As do we all. This is the basis of our mutual HOPE.

In the meantime, we all suffer with our mutual imperfections. And THAT is called "patience" and "long suffering." A couple of other Divine Qualities that accompany "honesty."

So, when any person, imperfect, even I, hold up the Word of God, that is one thing. I understand however that The Word does in fact "live" in me.

Every Word of God is meant for "our" life. Yes, even the bad ones.

Luke 4:4, Matt. 4:4

Good post. As for the Lord being in us and yet not fully revealed...in John 14:21 it is said that if we love Him, He will manifest Himself to them...

You discussed worshipping Him in truth, (!!), but to love Him, takes what? (If you love me, you will keep my commandments...), so obedience is required, but anything else?

If you had a beloved family member missing or otherwise not there, what would you do??

Seek them. There's a plethora of scriptures telling us to seek God and seek Him First.
With promises that, he who seeks will find (PTL!)

 

[realchild]

-
Recently i was speaking with someone here and they made a comment that i found a bit startling and also sad.
They told me that ..."of course the bible is full of contradictions".
So, if they believe that, then what can they possibly have in their life, in their Christian experience , as their final authority in matters of Christian Doctrine and Christian Discipleship. ??
It ither has to be their particular church teaching, or it has to be their opinion., as that is all that is left if a person does not have the Bible as their final authority, with the New Testament being the specific final authority for a born again Christian.

The fact is, Jesus left the planet long before any Letter(s) that created the New Testament were ever written or bundled together as a "Bible".
Another fact is, all the Apostles were dead long before any of their letters were recopied and eventually used to create a Bible that could be read by the masses.

So, as our Bible tells us that the true " Body of Christ", the "Church", which is comprised of each believer, ....as our bible tells us that the "Body" is built on Jesus and the Prophets and the Apostles (who were all long dead before any mass Bible was ever created)....then if all we have left to "build the church" is the Torah that is joined to the letters of the Apostles, then what else do we have that LITERALLY gives us the original idea of Christianity and Discipleship and Doctrine.??

So, based on how this member here sarcastically said that "of course the bible is full of contradictions", then i wanted to respond in this Thread, with something to think about.

We should all understand that without the Epistles left by dead Apostles, that we'd have no church or pastor or priest or communion, or any idea of Jesus even being born or crucified.
It is the BIBLE, and specially the New Testament which created the Catholic and Protestant Churches.
And without it, there is no Church of any kind, as the BIBLE produced everything that a Church believes and teaches.
As a matter of fact, the very idea of a local church or any church, is a Bible idea, its a design that is found in a letter that an apostle wrote.
So, this forum member, seemed to be implying that its their Church which generated the Bible, and its not the Bible (epistles) which created the Church.

So, my pov, is that the Bible (and not one of the 30 extant greek texts), but the BIBLE is the Final authority for a Christian in all subjects, regarding how to become a Christian, and containing the entirety of what you need to learn and know to be effective as a disciple and pleasing to God as a child of God.
Were it not for the Bible, a Christian would have no idea of Heaven, of Hell, and would not even know that the Lord is coming back., as these are not church inventions, but they are true facts that are only found in a Bible., within the scriptures.
Were it not for a bible, then not one Christian on this forum, would be a Christian.
The "church", as in that building that you go to to get your communion or hear your sermon, and see your friends, is secondary to the Bible..... and its very authority as given by the "5-fold ministry", comes from the Bible, and is to be controlled BY the Bible, and not the other way around.


K
<><

"So, if they believe that, then what can they possibly have in their life, in their Christian experience , as their final authority in matters of Christian Doctrine and Christian Discipleship. ??"

The spirit.

 

[Corn Pop]

Theres no contradictions. Its just human nature to be negative and critic and scrutinise everything as false.

Problem i see as i once was that problem, is everything is written for its own meaning.

Like an example, if God was to say its not ok, then says it is ok, it looks like Gods a contradicting hypocrite.

But what some people fail to see is they may be different situations and given to different people and so on. Also, especially in the NT there just seperate accounts. One Gospel seen 1 angel in the tomb, and another Gospel seen 2 angels at the tomb. They dont conradict, just seperate accounts that fill in a harmonic story. One witness seen 1 angel and another witness seen 2 angels. Thats what gives credibility. If they said the exact same thing i would know they just copies and give less credibility.

 

[realchild]

Theres no contradictions. Its just human nature to be negative and critic and scrutinise everything as false.

Problem i see as i once was that problem, is everything is written for its own meaning.

Like an example, if God was to say its not ok, then says it is ok, it looks like Gods a contradicting hypocrite.

But what some people fail to see is they may be different situations and given to different people and so on. Also, especially in the NT there just seperate accounts. One Gospel seen 1 angel in the tomb, and another Gospel seen 2 angels at the tomb. They dont conradict, just seperate accounts that fill in a harmonic story. One witness seen 1 angel and another witness seen 2 angels. Thats what gives credibility. If they said the exact same thing i would know they just copies and give less credibility.

Yeah you're right there are no contradictions in the bible, it's the people who are the contradiction.

 

[th1b.taylor]

"So, if they believe that, then what can they possibly have in their life, in their Christian experience , as their final authority in matters of Christian Doctrine and Christian Discipleship. ??"

The spirit.

Yes, that is possible but not likely. We must fall on our faces (do not tale that literally) and call on God in the manner He calls for and then we are taught by His Word to check every spirit and what it tells you against the Bible because god will not contradict Himself. And, in like manner to the OP I have gotten unscriptural messages from folks on these forums and on others that people say is a new revelation from God and it supersedes what God has said before. They feel certain they are speaking with the Spirit of God and I know for a fact they are not because, just, as Mal. 3:6a promises, God does not change.

If we have not the Bible to test the spirits with we are, indeed, hopeless.

 

[realchild]

Yes, that is possible but not likely. We must fall on our faces (do not tale that literally) and call on God in the manner He calls for and then we are taught by His Word to check every spirit and what it tells you against the Bible because god will not contradict Himself. And, in like manner to the OP I have gotten unscriptural messages from folks on these forums and on others that people say is a new revelation from God and it supersedes what God has said before. They feel certain they are speaking with the Spirit of God and I know for a fact they are not because, just, as Mal. 3:6a promises, God does not change.

If we have not the Bible to test the spirits with we are, indeed, hopeless.

snark edited reba

 

[ezrider]

Bible as final authority?

NO

The final authority is the Lord Himself and it is He that judges and none other.

You say the Bible is the word that he has left unto us, and it is the final authority:
Imagine that had you had written and authored a novel of your own, an autobiography that you have past on to others.
And should a dispute arise over what the author meant in this chapter or in another, each claiming the book as its authority:
To whom or what would you turn to as the final authority as to the meaning of the author? Would you go to the book?
Or would you not rather turn to the author of the book, so he might explain just what he meant?
If you were the author of that book; to whom would you judge to have the final authority?

 

[ezrider]

If we have not the Bible to test the spirits with we are, indeed, hopeless.

I find that to be a rather sad statement, and one I might encourage you to think upon. Paraphrasing you, If we do not have the Bible we are hopeless indeed. Is that how you really feel? That your hope lies within a Book, and without it you are hopeless? Should you not rather hope for the Spirit of Christ instead? For is our Hope indeed!

You think by the Bible that you can test the spirits? How can any of us judge of such things? Know you not that there are many Spirits of God; Seven Spirits standing before the throne of God? When you sit in the seat of Moses judging the words of God, which Spirit fills you: The one that evokes anger or wrath? Or one that evokes peace and understanding? For both are Spirits of God.

His Spirits are like a flaming sword which turn every way, to keep the way of the tree of Life. The Bible will not take you past them, and they will continue to turn you aside, for there has been given only ONE way back to the tree of life, and that is by trusting to the Spirit of Christ. To listen to the Spirit of Christ above all other Spirits, to hear HIS WORD, not by a book, but by His Spirit: to walk in Faith.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I find that to be a rather sad statement, and one I might encourage you to think upon. Paraphrasing you, If we do not have the Bible we are hopeless indeed. Is that how you really feel? That your hope lies within a Book, and without it you are hopeless? Should you not rather hope for the Spirit of Christ instead? For is our Hope indeed!

You think by the Bible that you can test the spirits? How can any of us judge of such things? Know you not that there are many Spirits of God; Seven Spirits standing before the throne of God? When you sit in the seat of Moses judging the words of God, which Spirit fills you: The one that evokes anger or wrath? Or one that evokes peace and understanding? For both are Spirits of God.

His Spirits are like a flaming sword which turn every way, to keep the way of the tree of Life. The Bible will not take you past them, and they will continue to turn you aside, for there has been given only ONE way back to the tree of life, and that is by trusting to the Spirit of Christ. To listen to the Spirit of Christ above all other Spirits, to hear HIS WORD, not by a book, but by His Spirit: to walk in Faith.

Unless you have a Bible and read it and study it, how can you know the Word of God?
The Bible is called "The Living Word of God" and "The Holy Word of God".

I would not put a Bible on the floor and stand on it to change a light bulb.
Why?
Because it is Holy.
I would not put a bag of potato chips on top of it while watching television.
Why?
Because it is the Holy, Sacred, Living Word of God.

1 Peter 1:23;
"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring Word of God.

 

[Kidron]

It seems quite vain to assume one has identified a contradiction in the bible, as an alternate explanation is that one is simply reading it wrong.

Typically a person thinks they find a contradiction in the New Testament because they have an idea of a doctrine that is actually a wrong understanding, but they believe it and perhaps their church teaches it which reinforces it in them,.....so, they then read what contradicts all this, and so this becomes to them a "bible contradiction".

 

[Kidron]

"So, if they believe that, then what can they possibly have in their life, in their Christian experience , as their final authority in matters of Christian Doctrine and Christian Discipleship. ??"

The spirit.

Thats true, however, the Spirit of God will always agree with the word of God (Bible), so, you have to be careful of "inner voices", as not all them are the Holy Spirit, and if you think the HS is telling you something that is counter to the clear teaching of the word of God (Bible) then you are listening to an unclean spirit., as these will also talk to you, inside.