The CURSE OF THE LAW

[Jethro Bodine]

Right he did not change it , He fulfilled every jot and tittle!

And that's why we're free to violate the parts that remain literally required.

New Covenant--don't have to seek to be obedient, and no more curse for disobedience.

But those who are under the law are required to keep it all!
I have posted this scripture over and over, look it up!

'Under the law'. You don't even know what that means. You keep proving it over and over and over again.

 

[francisdesales]

Sorry francis, i do not make the rules.

You should also consider your ability to interpret them correctly...

Those who go about to establish their own righteousness, by the law, have no submitted to Gods righteousness.

That has NEVER been an issue, as much as you WANT to make it one. Please understand, every conversation is not about "self-righteousness" when we are talking about the Mosaic Law and justification.

The Lord uses this same example that if ones eye or hand causes them to sin, they should get rid of it, for God will destroy the souls of them who reject His righteouness and go about to establish their own.

I hardly think that Jesus had this in mind when He makes this remark. It is about SIN, not about the Law.

That's something you need to consider - everything is not about "returning to the written code" and "making oneself just". Your one pony show is not fitting to be called "The Gospel". It is more extensive and complex, especially considering Judaism ITSELF is not entirely about legalism and self-justification.

The Jews were not monolithic, so there is no way that Paul's discussion about "self-justification" addresses every Jew or the total situation on the ground. His anthropology of man is line with the Essenes, who were one of several groups of Jews. There were other Jews who were of the same thinking as James, Peter and Jesus. You will note that "being just" is seen from a different point of view with THAT part of Scriptures.

Note Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. Who went home justified and why?

According to your understanding of Paul, no one did... Amazingly, you speak of the Gospel and ignore Jesus Christ...???

Once you come to understand that the Bible is more than just Paul and his viewpoints, you will come to understand more fully God's revelation regarding justification.

 

[Mitspa]

Well there are some who are spiritual and some who are carnal.
The spiritual know very well they are complete in Christ. The carnal are yet those who are subject to the flesh.

I think I'll take my chances with the carnal...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Yes it seems you have made that choice? But those who are "carnal" in the flesh, cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

Apparently Paul won't be there, he said he was still carnal but the Law was spiritual. Perhaps you could show him the way.

Yes he was making a point of how the law cannot be fufilled through the flesh. He goes on to say many things about the flesh and the Spirit. And that THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHIRST HAS SET HIM FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
and that those who are led of the Spirit are the sons of God.

To try to take this part of a scripture and say that The Apostle Paul is not "spiritual" shows how far from truth some are!

Are people really supposed to take your veiws and opinions on scripture serious, when you try to make such nonbiblical points??
There is no fear of God, with those who pretend to keep the law of moses.

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS.

 

[Mitspa]

Sorry francis, i do not make the rules.

You should also consider your ability to interpret them correctly...

Those who go about to establish their own righteousness, by the law, have no submitted to Gods righteousness.

That has NEVER been an issue, as much as you WANT to make it one. Please understand, every conversation is not about "self-righteousness" when we are talking about the Mosaic Law and justification.

The Lord uses this same example that if ones eye or hand causes them to sin, they should get rid of it, for God will destroy the souls of them who reject His righteouness and go about to establish their own.

I hardly think that Jesus had this in mind when He makes this remark. It is about SIN, not about the Law.

That's something you need to consider - everything is not about "returning to the written code" and "making oneself just". Your one pony show is not fitting to be called "The Gospel". It is more extensive and complex, especially considering Judaism ITSELF is not entirely about legalism and self-justification.

The Jews were not monolithic, so there is no way that Paul's discussion about "self-justification" addresses every Jew or the total situation on the ground. His anthropology of man is line with the Essenes, who were one of several groups of Jews. There were other Jews who were of the same thinking as James, Peter and Jesus. You will note that "being just" is seen from a different point of view with THAT part of Scriptures.

Note Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. Who went home justified and why?

According to your understanding of Paul, no one did... Amazingly, you speak of the Gospel and ignore Jesus Christ...???

Once you come to understand that the Bible is more than just Paul and his viewpoints, you will come to understand more fully God's revelation regarding justification.

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL Rom 2:16

IF ANY MAN PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL OTHER THAN THAT WHICH PAUL PREACHED THEY ARE ACCURSED!
Gal 1:6-12

Sorry if you dont know Pauls gospel, you do not have a clue about the rest of the bible.
You may not like that? but God will judge you by Pauls gospel.

here is a part of it Gal 3:10
FOR AS MANY ARE OF THE WORKS OF THE LAW ARE UNDER ITS CURSE: for it is written, cursed is EVERY ONE who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM.

 

[Mitspa]

Right he did not change it , He fulfilled every jot and tittle!

And that's why we're free to violate the parts that remain literally required.

New Covenant--don't have to seek to be obedient, and no more curse for disobedience.

But those who are under the law are required to keep it all!
I have posted this scripture over and over, look it up!

'Under the law'. You don't even know what that means. You keep proving it over and over and over again.

well it appears "you" dont know what I mean! lol
Php 3:3
Php 3:9-10
The Kingdom of God, is not in words but power.
I have power, you have words.

 

[John 8:32]

I just keep thinking this...

Pro 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

 

[francisdesales]

You should also consider your ability to interpret them correctly...



That has NEVER been an issue, as much as you WANT to make it one. Please understand, every conversation is not about "self-righteousness" when we are talking about the Mosaic Law and justification.

The Lord uses this same example that if ones eye or hand causes them to sin, they should get rid of it, for God will destroy the souls of them who reject His righteouness and go about to establish their own.

I hardly think that Jesus had this in mind when He makes this remark. It is about SIN, not about the Law.

That's something you need to consider - everything is not about "returning to the written code" and "making oneself just". Your one pony show is not fitting to be called "The Gospel". It is more extensive and complex, especially considering Judaism ITSELF is not entirely about legalism and self-justification.

The Jews were not monolithic, so there is no way that Paul's discussion about "self-justification" addresses every Jew or the total situation on the ground. His anthropology of man is line with the Essenes, who were one of several groups of Jews. There were other Jews who were of the same thinking as James, Peter and Jesus. You will note that "being just" is seen from a different point of view with THAT part of Scriptures.

Note Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. Who went home justified and why?

According to your understanding of Paul, no one did... Amazingly, you speak of the Gospel and ignore Jesus Christ...???

Once you come to understand that the Bible is more than just Paul and his viewpoints, you will come to understand more fully God's revelation regarding justification.

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL Rom 2:16

IF ANY MAN PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL OTHER THAN THAT WHICH PAUL PREACHED THEY ARE ACCURSED!
Gal 1:6-12

This CANNOT stand as is...

It sounds amazingly like blasphemy.

Mitspa, I will give you an opportunity to explain this before I blast you. Christians do not believe, as far as I know, that anyone will be judged by Paul, but rather, by Jesus Christ. Why are you trying to set Paul above Christ? Is Paul God? Or is Jesus God?

Please answer...

I would also like you to clear up something that you seem to be preaching:

Is the Bible as we Christian have it, the Jewish Old Testament and the Gospels included, the Word of God? Are all books of the Bible equally inspired and inerrant?

On these two questions, you are dangerously treading the grounds of a heretic even among the vast majority of non-Catholic Christians...

 

[francisdesales]

I have power, you have words.

Maybe you need to read more words and stop preaching. You are not winning any souls for Christ with your methods.

 

[John 8:32]

You should also consider your ability to interpret them correctly...



That has NEVER been an issue, as much as you WANT to make it one. Please understand, every conversation is not about "self-righteousness" when we are talking about the Mosaic Law and justification.

The Lord uses this same example that if ones eye or hand causes them to sin, they should get rid of it, for God will destroy the souls of them who reject His righteouness and go about to establish their own.

I hardly think that Jesus had this in mind when He makes this remark. It is about SIN, not about the Law.

That's something you need to consider - everything is not about "returning to the written code" and "making oneself just". Your one pony show is not fitting to be called "The Gospel". It is more extensive and complex, especially considering Judaism ITSELF is not entirely about legalism and self-justification.

The Jews were not monolithic, so there is no way that Paul's discussion about "self-justification" addresses every Jew or the total situation on the ground. His anthropology of man is line with the Essenes, who were one of several groups of Jews. There were other Jews who were of the same thinking as James, Peter and Jesus. You will note that "being just" is seen from a different point of view with THAT part of Scriptures.

Note Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. Who went home justified and why?

According to your understanding of Paul, no one did... Amazingly, you speak of the Gospel and ignore Jesus Christ...???

Once you come to understand that the Bible is more than just Paul and his viewpoints, you will come to understand more fully God's revelation regarding justification.

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL Rom 2:16

IF ANY MAN PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL OTHER THAN THAT WHICH PAUL PREACHED THEY ARE ACCURSED!
Gal 1:6-12

Sorry if you dont know Pauls gospel, you do not have a clue about the rest of the bible.
You may not like that? but God will judge you by Pauls gospel.

here is a part of it Gal 3:10
FOR AS MANY ARE OF THE WORKS OF THE LAW ARE UNDER ITS CURSE: for it is written, cursed is EVERY ONE who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM.

1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

Seems to me that Paul, Apollos and the all the other Apostles preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God...

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Which Christ delivered, but received from the Father...

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Unless, of course, the gospel you are referring to is...

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[francisdesales]

You should also consider your ability to interpret them correctly...



That has NEVER been an issue, as much as you WANT to make it one. Please understand, every conversation is not about "self-righteousness" when we are talking about the Mosaic Law and justification.

The Lord uses this same example that if ones eye or hand causes them to sin, they should get rid of it, for God will destroy the souls of them who reject His righteouness and go about to establish their own.

I hardly think that Jesus had this in mind when He makes this remark. It is about SIN, not about the Law.

That's something you need to consider - everything is not about "returning to the written code" and "making oneself just". Your one pony show is not fitting to be called "The Gospel". It is more extensive and complex, especially considering Judaism ITSELF is not entirely about legalism and self-justification.

The Jews were not monolithic, so there is no way that Paul's discussion about "self-justification" addresses every Jew or the total situation on the ground. His anthropology of man is line with the Essenes, who were one of several groups of Jews. There were other Jews who were of the same thinking as James, Peter and Jesus. You will note that "being just" is seen from a different point of view with THAT part of Scriptures.

Note Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. Who went home justified and why?

According to your understanding of Paul, no one did... Amazingly, you speak of the Gospel and ignore Jesus Christ...???

Once you come to understand that the Bible is more than just Paul and his viewpoints, you will come to understand more fully God's revelation regarding justification.

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL Rom 2:16

IF ANY MAN PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL OTHER THAN THAT WHICH PAUL PREACHED THEY ARE ACCURSED!
Gal 1:6-12

Sorry if you dont know Pauls gospel, you do not have a clue about the rest of the bible.
You may not like that? but God will judge you by Pauls gospel.

here is a part of it Gal 3:10
FOR AS MANY ARE OF THE WORKS OF THE LAW ARE UNDER ITS CURSE: for it is written, cursed is EVERY ONE who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM.

1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

Seems to me that Paul, Apollos and the all the other Apostles preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God...

I had this Scripture in mind, but I wanted to be more succinct. But since it is from Paul himself, perhaps I should have included it, since he believes (apparently) that only Paul's writings are inspired by God and the rest are just "Chicken Soup for the Soul" or something like that...

Unless, of course, the gospel you are referring to is...

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Well, the citations from the Gospels would have been ignored, but this one, I forgot about it. Thanks!

Regards

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I just keep thinking this...

Pro 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Interesting that you would say that, because I've been thinking this...

"overweening pride"

I couldn't remember the reference but finally found it:

'The proud and arrogant person, named “Mocker,â€
acts with excessive pride.' (Proverbs 21:24 HCSB)

See these other translations: http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2021:24

Nails it pretty good, IMO.

 

[John 8:32]

I just keep thinking this...

Pro 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Interesting that you would say that, because I've been thinking this...

"overweening pride"

I couldn't remember the reference but finally found it:

'The proud and arrogant person, named “Mocker,”
acts with excessive pride.' (Proverbs 21:24 HCSB)

See these other translations: http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2021:24

Nails it pretty good, IMO.

Nice Reference there JB, thanks very much for pointing me to that one. I have use this one in the past and found it helpful also (hoping to return the favor)...

http://www.bible.cc/proverbs/21-24.htm

 

[Deborah13]

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL Rom 2:16

Not by Paul! by Paul's gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ, taught to Paul by Jesus Himself.

Who taught Apollos, Timothy, etc. Paul, what gospel did they preach? The gospel of Jesus Christ that all will be judged by.

 

[francisdesales]

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL Rom 2:16

Not by Paul! by Paul's gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ, taught to Paul by Jesus Himself.

Who taught Apollos, Timothy, etc. Paul, what gospel did they preach? The gospel of Jesus Christ that all will be judged by.

Look at post 507. You see how the response from Mitspa has drawn the ire of others? He is setting up Paul's Gospel AGAINST the words of Jesus Christ. He has not yet explained himself. It is cause for great concern, especially since he fancies himself a preacher/teacher.

Nor has he answered my concern about the contents of what is Sacred Scriptures. I have asked this question of him before. I am not sure why he has not answered yet.

Regards

 

[Deborah13]

He is setting up Paul's Gospel AGAINST the words of Jesus Christ.

In #507 - I just don't see what you are saying above.

I do know that none of the apostles taught different gospels, it was the gospel of Christ on the cross, His death for our sin, and His resurrection as the firstfruit,
He sits at the right hand of the Father. This to me is the Gospel of Christ, everything else is because of this.

All the apostles taught the same thing but because they were addressing different audiences they used different examples and different Biblical scriptures to make their points. It's like we would know Hebrews was addressed to a Jewish audience because a gentile one would not have understood all the references, such as to a tabernacle that had been gone for 1000 yrs.

James taught in Jerusalem, of coarse he would teach differently but it was the same gospel and they didn't disagree with the gospel Paul taught.

I've been reading and reading this thread and I'm so confused now about what all of you are saying, wow.

I just hate it when threads get closed. I wish we could all just study the scriptures decently with each other. I not accusing anyone, I have gotten out of line myself at times.

Blessings

 

[francisdesales]

He is setting up Paul's Gospel AGAINST the words of Jesus Christ.

In #507 - I just don't see what you are saying above.

I wrote:

Note Jesus' parable of the Pharisee and the Tax collector. Who went home justified and why?

According to your understanding of Paul, no one did... Amazingly, you speak of the Gospel and ignore Jesus Christ...???

He responded with these two verses:

ALL MEN WILL BE JUDGED BY PAULS GOSPEL Rom 2:16

IF ANY MAN PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL OTHER THAN THAT WHICH PAUL PREACHED THEY ARE ACCURSED!
Gal 1:6-12


Now, based on how my conversations have been going with Mitspa, I have come to find out that he considers Paul's gospel (or more properly, his interpretation of it) supersecedes what Christ says. He cites these verses to place Paul above Jesus, RATHER than providing how the two are the SAME gospel. He has not once, in our long discussions, brought up ANYTHING that Christ said or taught on the subject. Every citation is from Paul - and usually the same 4 verses is supposed to counteract or overrule any other verses in Scriptures.

That is why I have been asking him about the contents of Scriptures. About whether he believes that the REST of the Bible is inspired. It doesn't appear that he believes that the Psalms are the inspired word of God. Rather than explain why Romans 3 and the Psalms that I cite appear to have a surface contradiction - and explain the deeper meaning of what Paul MEANS, he brushes the Psalms aside and cuts and pastes his usual "the Law is not of Faith" nonsense - which explains NOTHING about what I bring up.

If someone believes that the Bible is ENTIRELY inspired by God, how can one part "contradict" another? So when we have "no one seeks out God" in Romans 3, and then the VERY PSALMS that Paul cites states that they "seek out God", an explanation is in order, don't you think? Rather than ignore the Psalms, or consider that Paul was a dolt, we have to try to figure out what Paul meant by citing a PART of a particular Psalm while NOT citing another part of the same Psalm. Clearly, he knew the context.

Since his 'defense' is that 'everyone will be judged by Paul's gospel', this means that the Psalms that appear to contradict Paul are to be tossed aside. What Jesus says? Toss that out, too. The "Gospel" is ONLY what Paul says, and so when the taxcollector went home JUSTIFIED, one must wonder if Jesus was unaware of Paul's "gospel" - AS MITSPA EXPLAINS it.

Clearly, there is a major disconnect between how Mitspa presents Paul and how Paul presents Paul. I would say that Paul's Gospel was NOT different than Jesus' Gospel, and that when there is an apparent contradiction, we don't brush it aside, but attempt to explain it - ESPECIALLY our interpretation of that Gospel. It is clear to ME that Romans 3 is attacking Jews who think they are justified by possession of the Law by citing the Psalms of David, whose CONTEXT is attacking Jews 1000 years before Christ - WICKED Jews who were pursuing David. Thus, not every Jew who followed the Law was just in God's eyes - and Paul cites David to that effect. No, God is not granting the Jews a special place in heaven JUST BECAUSE they are Jews and have the Law. Having the Law did not = doing the Law, that is clear from David. But David ALSO speaks of just Jews pursuing and seeking out God, begging for mercy, etc. Anyone who has read the Psalms would know this, and it would be a grand red herring or misinformation for Paul to say, literally, that no Jew seeked out God...

Thus, my question to Mitspa (who has been mysteriously absent for the last couple days) remains. Does he consider the Synoptic Gospels as inspired by God, at the same level of belief as Paul's letters? Does he think that Paul's Gospel supercedes what Christ says - or is there some explanation that shows how they teach the same thing from different points of views or focuses? I have not been able to get any kind of traction from him on this in numerous posts - he seems unwilling to actually go beyond his usual 'cut and paste' responses.

As to his response to Jethro about his so-called 'power', well, I don't need to comment, you can figure out the 'math'.

I do know that none of the apostles taught different gospels, it was the gospel of Christ on the cross, His death for our sin, and His resurrection as the firstfruit, He sits at the right hand of the Father. This to me is the Gospel of Christ, everything else is because of this.

Of course. They do focus on different aspects - James and Paul are teaching different focuses on the same gospel. The Gospel is not "faith v the written code", which is all I get from Mitspa. Even Romans and Galatians are not primarily about that. They are about the 'catholic' calling of the Gospel - it is available to ALL men, not just Jews. The Mosaic Law was getting in the way of that. WHY be circumcised? TEAR DOWN THAT WALL! That didn't lead to righteousness for the JEWS - based on their level of obedience to God. Paul esp. focuses on what you have said and how we participate in His "career".

We are still waiting to hear something like what you said. And waiting...

All the apostles taught the same thing but because they were addressing different audiences they used different examples and different Biblical scriptures to make their points. It's like we would know Hebrews was addressed to a Jewish audience because a gentile one would not have understood all the references, such as to a tabernacle that had been gone for 1000 yrs.

Remember, Judaism was not monolithic. The different sects of Judaism also had different focuses. While Paul appears to have the Essene background belief that men COULD NOT obey the law, there were other sects that taught that men COULD obey the Law (and agreed with Moses comments in Deuteronomy that it was not "too difficult").

The difference is easily explained. Paul is saying "by human effort ALONE". James (and his background) is saying "with God's Spirit, it is not too difficult". I take it you have read the Psalms. Do you see the constant REQUEST for God's Spirit, His help, His grace - to follow the Law? "SHOW ME HOW TO FOLLOW THE LAW! And so, no, they do not contradict.

I've been reading and reading this thread and I'm so confused now about what all of you are saying, wow.

I just hate it when threads get closed. I wish we could all just study the scriptures decently with each other. I not accusing anyone, I have gotten out of line myself at times.

Blessings

Yes, frustration. I know the feeling...

Regards

 

[John 8:32]

Now, based on how my conversations have been going with Mitspa, I have come to find out that he considers Paul's gospel (or more properly, his interpretation of it) supersecedes what Christ says. He cites these verses to place Paul above Jesus, RATHER than providing how the two are the SAME gospel. He has not once, in our long discussions, brought up ANYTHING that Christ said or taught on the subject. Every citation is from Paul - and usually the same 4 verses is supposed to counteract or overrule any other verses in Scriptures.

Regards

I am absolute in the belief that everything written from Acts to Rev and the OT also, must harmonize with the teachings of Christ. When Christ plainly states something, then James, Peter, John, Jude and Paul (and even George and Ringo) have to agree. What is sometimes overlooked, is that the letters the Apostles wrote were to churches with their own unique problems. Christ (the Logos, Word, Spokesman) is able to inspire these writings in such a way that they are applicable to all men at all times even though they were written to specific churches at a specific time. The crux of the matter is that they must all be in agreement and Christ is the Final Authority.

When Paul said...

Rom 2:16 In the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

He was not referring to his personal gospel, he was referring to the gospel he taught relative to many different gospels bandied about by false teachers. He plainly shows where his gospel came from and to whom it really belongs...

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And the Final Authority shows us where it ultimately comes from...

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

And all the Apostles received this word from the Father through Christ including Paul...

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul was directly taught by Christ, just as the other Apostles were. The gospel in not Paul's gospel, in actuality, it is the gospel of the Father and He gave it to Christ, Who in turn gave it to the Apostles.

 

[francisdesales]

Now, based on how my conversations have been going with Mitspa, I have come to find out that he considers Paul's gospel (or more properly, his interpretation of it) supersecedes what Christ says. He cites these verses to place Paul above Jesus, RATHER than providing how the two are the SAME gospel. He has not once, in our long discussions, brought up ANYTHING that Christ said or taught on the subject. Every citation is from Paul - and usually the same 4 verses is supposed to counteract or overrule any other verses in Scriptures.

Regards

I am absolute in the belief that everything written from Acts to Rev and the OT also, must harmonize with the teachings of Christ. When Christ plainly states something, then James, Peter, John, Jude and Paul (and even George and Ringo) have to agree. What is sometimes overlooked, is that the letters the Apostles wrote were to churches with their own unique problems. Christ (the Logos, Word, Spokesman) is able to inspire these writings in such a way that they are applicable to all men at all times even though they were written to specific churches at a specific time. The crux of the matter is that they must all be in agreement and Christ is the Final Authority.

When Paul said...

Rom 2:16 In the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

He was not referring to his personal gospel, he was referring to the gospel he taught relative to many different gospels bandied about by false teachers. He plainly shows where his gospel came from and to whom it really belongs...

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And the Final Authority shows us where it ultimately comes from...

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

And all the Apostles received this word from the Father through Christ including Paul...

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul was directly taught by Christ, just as the other Apostles were. The gospel in not Paul's gospel, in actuality, it is the gospel of the Father and He gave it to Christ, Who in turn gave it to the Apostles.

I agree, the entire Gospel, whichever apostle taught it, is the same Gospel. We have to be alert to literary genre, background and the audience, not just the simple words... The "gospel" is not just one view that supersedes what others have to say on subjects, like justification. We need to consider what the Bible says as a whole.

Thus, when the taxcollector went home justified or when I cite Luke 1:5-6, or if I cite Psalms that speak of men seeking out God, it would seem that Paul has something else in mind in Romans 3 rather than stating that "all men do not seek out God" in the literal sense. I feel confident that Paul was aware of the Psalms and what they stated. He was making a polemic argument v Jews who thought that having the Law was good enough. God judges based upon our good deeds, not on the gift of having the Law - for is God a God of only the Jews? No, the Gentiles, too (who did not have the supposed "self-justifying Mosaic Law")

Ignoring one section at the expense of another section of Scriptures is not how to do proper exegesis.

Regards

 

[josefnospam]

Thank God we are not under the law but under Grace. Romans 6:14

 

[Douvie]

I agree, the entire Gospel, whichever apostle taught it, is the same Gospel. We have to be alert to literary genre, background and the audience, not just the simple words... The "gospel" is not just one view that supersedes what others have to say on subjects, like justification. We need to consider what the Bible says as a whole.

Sorry for butting in, but I agree. The problem we seem to be having is that we have a tendency to split the Bible into OT and NT, or The LAW and the Gospel. Should we be considering that the Word of God, the Bible, is a "Two-edged Sword" or Double-edged Sword? Doesn't the Law and the Gospel fit together like a jigsaw puzzle?

Is not the reference to the Law made by Christ, Paul, & etc., a reference to the ceremonial Law only (circumcision) and not specifically to the ten commandments? Only Christ was able to fulfil the Law (Ceremonial and the Ten Commandments). No one else ever has or ever will.