Of course no one admits that off the bat that they are ultimately responsible for their salvation or, working the Gospel like a Divine AmWay program, but it's inherent in the non-Calvinist position.
No, it's not. There is no one who does not receive understanding from the Lord.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light
which gives light to every man coming into the world1.
(Joh 1:6-9 NKJ)
Every person get some form of understanding from God.
What causes one to differ? Grace. The person who holds to the idea of total libertarian free will has to concede it was their choice that brought them into a relationship with God. It was due to their ability to see the offer of the Gospel that seprates them from others who do not. This runs runs contrary to Gospel principles, "A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." How is one able to even comprihend and believe if, "the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
But, as I've shown every person does receive some understanding from Heaven. You asked how is one able to comprehend and believe? The've been given understanding. The question is what will they do with that understanding?
You quoted the passage that says the carnal mind is enmity with God. Can you exegete that passage in context?
Exactly. Just like Lydia in Acts whose heart was opened before she could believe, "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."
You said, "Just like Lydia in Acts whose heart was opened before she could believe". Aren't you assuming that her heart
had to be opened before she could believe? I don't see anything in the text that says that. I don't see any reason she couldn't have opened her own heart. It seems to me that that conclusion is drawn from a presupposition.
You are begging the question by inserting into the passages cited total libertarian free will. The passage from Romans 1 reads "to every one that believeth." You are assuming that "every one that believeth" means everyone has the ability to believe. This is the Divine AmWay program where God sets up a program for salvation and all you have to do is work it. Again, what causes one to differ? The ability to hear the Gospel or the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration? Who is Christ speaking to in John 16 and how would His listeners of understood Him? Christ is talking about general conviction and not conviction that leads to godly repentance and sorrow.
Aren't you inserting a lack of free will?
Romans 10 reads, " whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." This begs the question. You are assuming total liberation free will but not proving it with this verse. Who are the "whosoever?" Verse 17 of the same chapter is followed by "I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." Let's stop here for just a second and examine the passage. The idea of "world" in John 16 was assumed by the poster to mean everybody, everywhere, all the time. World = every single person, ever. Without exception. Is that consistent with what Paul is saying here in Romans? Did everybody, everywhere and at all times hear the Gospel? If we accept this understanding of the word "world" yes, everyone has heard the Gospel. But we know not everyone has heard the Gospel. The Greek word "world" has seven meanings. I will not go into them here but please look them up.
Haven't you assumed a lack of free will without proving it?
Also, if you're looking at Romans 10, why define world by what Jesus said in John 16?
Let's look at Paul's words here. Did Paul say everyone has heard the Gospel? you quoted, "I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." In this passage Paul is quote Psalm 19.
NKJ Psalm 19:1 <To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.>
The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 T
here is no speech nor language Where
their voice is not heard.
4
Their line1 has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, And rejoices like a strong man to run its race.
6 Its rising is from one end of heaven, And its circuit to the other end; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, Yea, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned, And in keeping them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins; Let them not have dominion over me. Then I shall be blameless, And I shall be innocent of great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, my strength and my Redeemer. (Psa 19:1-14 NKJ)
Paul says the heavens have declared the glory of the Lord and the firmament His handiwork. Has this occurred in all of the world? Sure it has all of creation declares the glory of God. He says there is no speech or language where they are not heard. Are there people who have no communication at all? It's doubtful.
1 Peter 1.23 was used above. The same chapter also reads, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father." Does God learn the future or is God omnipotent (all knowing)? We know God is all knowing and therefore does not learn of some future decision a creature makes in time. God's knowledge is not based on what He learns by looking through the corridor of time.
You quoted, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father." Firstly, 1 Peter is written to Jewish believers. The Jews were God's elect. However, the the word order in that passage has been changed from the original. It's my opinion that this was done to favor Reformed doctrine. The word "elect" is actually in verse one not verse two. Here is a Literal translation of the Greek text.
YLT 1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the
choice sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied! (1Pe 1:1-2 YLT)
To the elect sojourners of the dispersion. That's the way the Greek text reads.
Before we get to verse 23 we find, "foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God..." There we have it. We believe because we were foreordained before the foundation of the world to do so and "by him do believe in God..." or "through him are believers." We are not believers on our own but by the Fathers ordination and in Christ Jesus. Amen.
That's not what the passage says,
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. (1Pe 1:19-21 KJV)
That passage says that it was Christ who was foreordained, not one's belief. Verse 21 says, "who by him", the word by is the Greek word dia which means through in the genitive case. We believe through Him
Can't argue with James who wrote, "Of (not my will but) his own will begat he us with the word of truth"
But, James didn't say, "(not my will but)". That's an assumption imposed on the text. If it's my will to get on the bus, yet it is not the bus drivers will that I get on, he won't open the door and I can't get on. Likewise, it's his will that I get on the bus, yet not my will I don't get on the bus. However, it is the will of both of us that I get on the bus, then I get on the bus.
Kind of but I'd like to clarify. God uses means, or God deals with mankind often through intermediaries. (Assyrians/Babylonians to punish Israel, etc.) The preaching of the Gospel is how God chooses to call His people. To use, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" as a proof text display a misunderstanding of how God works in the world.
Those were just a few misunderstands that jumped out at me and I wanted to clarify the Reformed position.
Thank you.
jBird
I don't believe they were misunderstandings of the Scriptures.[/quote][/QUOTE]
if i goof we can try again..