The lake of fire - Punishment ie torture or destruction

[Papyrus_dust]

There is an interesting variation to the scripture that describes weeping and gnashing of teeth in Hell fire. Found in Matthew 8:11-12

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Jewish thought, using a term we can grasp to give an idea of something .ie
The Name of God.how exactly does a Being of inifitive measurement be defined and have a finite name? It's a title that describes how He acts.

Agreed. I.E. "God" is a verb.

 

[for_his_glory]

The duration of punishment for the one cast into the lake of fire is everlasting. Isaiah speaks of the everlasting burning of the fire that shall never be quenched and of the worm which shall never die (Isaiah 33:14; 66:24). David said that some would awake unto eternal life and others unto shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2). John the Baptist and Jesus spoke of the unquenchable fire (Matthew 3:12; Mark 9:43). Paul the Apostle speaks of how the lost will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord (II Thessalonians 1:9).

Our imaginations can run wild as we try to picture it and many opinions will be formed, but no one will ever know what it will be except those who are cast into it.

 

[godsquadgeek]

1. I have always thought that it would be an empty dark place because every one of them will be at the Great White Throne and I tend to locate it in Heaven. Can you imagine the fiery rage, gnashing of teeth Eternity with out God will go on. I consider the Lake of Fire a metaphor and it not being a Salvic Matter, it does not affect our Salvation and God can jerk that knot out of our tails when we wrrive and straighten the whole lot of us up... finally.

Not a literal hell fire
is coming close to heresy imo, but I could be wrong.

 

[godsquadgeek]

The duration of punishment for the one cast into the lake of fire is everlasting. Isaiah speaks of the everlasting burning of the fire that shall never be quenched and of the worm which shall never die (Isaiah 33:14; 66:24). David said that some would awake unto eternal life and others unto shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2). John the Baptist and Jesus spoke of the unquenchable fire (Matthew 3:12; Mark 9:43). Paul the Apostle speaks of how the lost will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord (II Thessalonians 1:9).

Our imaginations can run wild as we try to picture it and many opinions will be formed, but no one will ever know what it will be except those who are cast into it.

The word fire is the same Greek word for literal fire.

 

[for_his_glory]

The word fire is the same Greek word for literal fire.

So, are you saying those cast into the lake of fire will literally be inflamed with fire for eternity?

 

[Papyrus_dust]

This covers the various views on Hell and it is really short.

 

[jasonc]

The word fire is the same Greek word for literal fire.

So a fire ,kills satan or tortures him.fire is hot ,but the surface of the son has heat and no flanes from oxidation

 

[Butch5]

The Dragon, The Beast and The False Prophet are three visionaries within John’s visions recorded in Revelation. It’s likely they represent what John told us they represent.

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false-prophet. For they are spirits of demons doing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world to gather them together for the battle of the great day of God Almighty.​

Revelation 16:13-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Revelation 16:13-14&version=DLNT

They represent Satan and his demons in reality. And I’m not just making this up, John says it to be the case.

Agreed. However, the Scriptures also call them men. Paul calls him the man of sin. That's why I think the demon possessed man example fits what we find in Scripture.

 

[chessman]

However, the Scriptures also call them men.

Not The Dragon, The Beast or The False Prophet it doesn’t.

Scripture is PERFECT!

 

[Butch5]

I said this:
"Dan 12:2 - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
A reference to believers and unbelievers. If one ceases to exist, there is no way they can experience anything, much less everlasting contempt. One has to exist in order to experience contempt. The verse is meaningless if souls cease to exist."

Butch5 said: ↑

Let me start out by saying that the passages don't stated what you're claiming. You're trying to reason your position from these passages. There are passages of Scripture that state plainly that the dead, have no thoughts, cannot praise God, know nothing, etc.

The Bible refutes your thoughts about the dead having no thoughts.

Jesus gave us an account of 2 men who died, went to where all souls went after death and even told us what one of them SAID. Luke 16

And don't forget Saul's seance and conversation with Samuel. They were TALKING.

Did you read what I wrote? I wasn't giving my thoughts. The Bible states plainly that the dead have no thoughts. So, either there's a contradiction in Scripture or you're understanding of these passages is flawed. Luke 16 is a judgment against Israel. If you do a serious, in depth study of the passage you'll see that there's a lot more going on here than you think. Regarding Samuel, The Scriptures tell us that Saul sought a demon.

In fact, that's what "everlasting contempt" means: expereince contempt forever. Simply denying a meaning doesn't make it so.

Read what the passage says. Some will rise to aionion contempt. It's not eternal. Also the passage doesn't they will live eternally experiencing contempt. I subject that you're projecting onto the Scriptures.

Doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter? The passage says "their" worm doesn't die and somehow you construe that as meaning that a person will never die? Not only is that a non sequitur, it does matter. The passage is speaking of worms, not people.

Keep in mind that it's THEIR worm. Not just some or a worm. If it's THEIRS, and it is, then it's part of them. Your reasoning is unreasonable.

What's unreasonable is that you think this passage that speaks of a worm is the person. You don't know the worm is but you know it's part of them? Really. Did you read the passage? What is in the fire burning with the worms are corpses. Corpses, not ghosts. Corpses are dead people, not ghosts.


24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:24 KJV)

Seriously Freegrace, if you would stop arguing and listen and consider the points that are being presented to you we might actually make some progress. Wouldn't you rather have a proper understanding of God's word than win an argument?

 

[Butch5]

Not The Dragon, The Beast or The False Prophet it doesn’t.

Scripture is PERFECT!

According to Scripture the Beast has a body.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. (Dan. 7:7-11 KJV)

 

[godsquadgeek]

So a fire ,kills satan or tortures him.fire is hot ,but the surface of the son has heat and no flanes from oxidation

It's a literal fire that also can kill and torment immaterial things such as angels or souls.

 

[chessman]

According to Scripture the Beast has a body.

Of course. Their bodies looked like a lion and eagle and bear and leopard (only with multiple heads and iron teeth. You’d have more Biblical support calling them lions and leopards than humans.

The first was like a lion and had the wings of an eagle. I was watching until its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the earth and it was raised on its feet like a human, and a human heart was given to it. And look, another beast, a second one, looking like a bear. And it was raised up on one side and three tusks were in its mouth between its teeth, and so it was told, “Arise, eat much flesh!” After this I was watching and look, another beast like a leopard; it had four wings of a bird on its back, and the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it. After this in the visions of the night I was looking and there was a fourth beast, terrifying and frightful and exceedingly strong, and it had great iron teeth, and it was devouring and crushing, and it stamped the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the other beasts that preceded it and it had ten horns . I was considering the horns, and look, another little horn came up among them, and three of the earlier horns were rooted out from before it, and there were eyes like the eyes of a human in this horn and also a mouth that was speaking boastfully.​

Daniel 7:4-8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Daniel 7:4-8&version=LEB

 

[for_his_glory]

Not The Dragon, The Beast or The False Prophet it doesn’t.

Scripture is PERFECT!

The dragon is Satan as described in Rev 12:7-12 as he will be cast out of heaven down to the ground. It is Satan that works through the beast out of the sea, which is a Luciferian military, economic and religious system (Combination of men) who gives power to the beast out of the earth who is the son of perdition (false prophet and a man) being the last antichrist that will deceive the world with a false peace treaty, a twisted false gospel and showing signs and wonders in the sky that could even deceive the very elect of God if possible and will cause all to take its mark and bow down to him. Rev Chapter 13; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

They will all be cast into the lake of fire including those who have taken the mark of the beast and bow down and worship him.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's a literal fire that also can kill and torment immaterial things such as angels or souls.

can you give scripture for this please, thank you

 

[jasonc]

It's a literal fire that also can kill and torment immaterial things such as angels or souls.

That's not a literal fire,that isn't the greek usage ,you said it's the same word.the greek idea of hades as Tartarus which is also the word related to tartaroo meaning torture.in Tartarus fire exists and heat and its uncomfortable and dark and cave like, sheol is silimiar to that.

These are anthropic words that use our language ,ideas to express the concept of things.these dont mean they are a literal flame or what not.

Ie a food in heaven,it's a kin to Jewish festivities at a wedding .we will communicate with God but heavenly bowel movements? Sewer in heaven? While I believe in the concept of torture in gehenna,I don't see a literal flame as that is anot her realm of reality .the spirit world is nothing like our reality.of course a body to suffer will be given to the damned.

Like the jews,Greeks ,the church often teaches hell is in the earth.yet literal in our plane it's not .it's a concept ,I need to look at again .both hades,sheol have levels in teachings. The concept of greek hades is also having like sheol the idea of a paradise in the midst of it depending on the rabbi you ask.most say no.paradise Is not part of sheol.

Let's not assume that one who says fire is a metaphor ,doesn't mean that he or she doesn't believe in eternal torment.I have spent time arguing,studying both sides of it and I was an annilationist originally.it helped that I did the kaddish which goes into Jewish thought on sheol and the after life.i learned what their views are on it and what the bible does say.

It's simple to read but complicated to fathom.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Of course, the Bible uses figurative language and metaphors.
What do you think Jesus meant when He compared S&G to contemporary cities in Israel and said "it would be more bearable for S&G than" for the cities named?

This is one of those questions that needs a thread of its own. I wouldn't want to answer this off the top of my head. I've looked at it before but it's been a while. You have to look at the sins of S&G, and the the offenses of those other cities. What exactly were they doing that was so bad it warranted a comparison to S&G?

There's a lot of symbolic language going on through out this talk of Hell. Weeping and gnashing of teeth. What exactly does that mean? What's the significance? And more importantly, what would the original audience understand by this? (no our understanding, theirs - we often put our cultural bent on statements as if they were written to us yesterday - a huge mistake).

 

[FreeGrace]

Mark 9:43 proves you wrong where it calls the lake of fire, hell. Please respond for the third time.

No, it doesn''t. The Greek word is gehenna. The word 'hell' is also a translation for hades. They aren't the same.

 

[FreeGrace]

Butch5 said: ↑
However, the Scriptures also call them men.

Not The Dragon, The Beast or The False Prophet it doesn’t.

Scripture is PERFECT!

2 Thess 2:3 - Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.