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the audiance it was meant for died in 70 ad, as stormcrows position is.
General observation coming...

It's apparent - by the quote above - that people aren't bothering to read what's written closely at all. It's equally apparent - given the quote above - that people are staking out doctrinal positions on the book of Revelation without ever having read it!

Because if people were either reading my posts OR the book of Revelation, they would know better than to write something like the quote, cited above!

Now, with that out of the way, the original audience of the book of Revelation is the seven churches in Asia! The letters were a warning to them but the subject of much of the book revolves around Christ coming in judgment against Jerusalem and Judea and "the tribes of the land": those who pierced Him!

But please, don't take my word for it: read it yourselves!

{4} John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, Revelation 1:4 (NASB)

{10} I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, {11} saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea." Revelation 1:10-11 (NASB)

See? It really does help to read this stuff! :thumbsup
 
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When He returns and gathers all up into Him, those who sleep and those who do not in Him, then it is done. It did not happen in 70 A.D, there was no beast and no false prophet, no armies, no mark, no image, no slaughtering of the saints, no return of Christ and no resurrection.

And - apparently - no understanding what those things would've meant to people living under intense persecution: the original audience a.k.a the seven churches in Asia.
 
General observation coming...

It's apparent - by the quote above - that people aren't bothering to read what's written closely at all. It's equally apparent - given the quote above - that people are staking out doctrinal positions on the book of Revelation without ever having read it!

Because if people were either reading my posts OR the book of Revelation, they would know better than to write something like the quote, cited above!

Now, with that out of the way, the original audience of the book of Revelation is the seven churches in Asia! They letters were a warning to them but the subject of much of the book revolves around Christ coming in judgment against Jerusalem and Judea and "the tribes of the land": those who pierced Him!

But please, don't take my word for it: read it yourselves!

{4} John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, Revelation 1:4 (NASB)

{10} I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, {11} saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea." Revelation 1:10-11 (NASB)

See? It really does help to read this stuff! :thumbsup

Greetings,

Who are His servants?

That is who Revelations was written for, His servants, being His servant Revelations was written for me, as it was for all of His servants until it is fullfilled.

Does John write to the lampstands or the angels?

Also.

"Come up here and I will show you things that must take place after this"

We are then shown the Lamb recieving the scroll and Revelations continues from there.

Revelations will not be over, ever, it cannot be fullfilled because the end of Revelations, the end of the prophecy is everlasting.

The saints will be with God and the Lamb forever and ever.
When Christ gathers His into Him on his return, all of His shall be with Him and at the appropriate time, after Death has been cast into the lake of fire, the second death, all of His with Him will dwell with God Almighty and the Lamb on a new earth and new heaven, with New Jerusalem and God himself will dwell with us and we shall be God, the Lord Jesus Christ and the saints, forever and ever. Amen.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Greetings,

Who are His servants?

That is who Revelations was written for, His servants, being His servant Revelations was written for me, as it was for all of His servants until it is fullfilled.

Does John write to the lampstands or the angels?

Also.

"Come up here and I will show you things that must take place after this"

We are then shown the Lamb recieving the scroll and Revelations continues from there.

Revelations will not be over, ever, it cannot be fullfilled because the end of Revelations, the end of the prophecy is everlasting.

The saints will be with God and the Lamb forever and ever.
When Christ gathers His into Him on his return, all of His shall be with Him and at the appropriate time, after Death has been cast into the lake of fire, the second death, all of His with Him will dwell with God Almighty and the Lamb on a new earth and new heaven, with New Jerusalem and God himself will dwell with us and we shall be God, the Lord Jesus Christ and the saints, forever and ever. Amen.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Why wait?


2But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
 
I have a simple question? for those who believe that the bible was fulfilled in 70AD "Preterms" If revelation was fulfilled where is the proof. We know without doubt Adam and Eve existed, because here we are. We know Noah's flood happened you can evidence for it all over the world. We know Jesus came as a child, preached, was crucified and was raised again. History has documented this probably better than any other part of the bible. Now if all these life changing event took place and they did. Then why would the next step the second coming be in such question.. We should see in history this happening. Christians should not be divided over this. Sure we have debate over the find tuning of prophecies. But not an all out deny of something that you say happened at 70 AD. Where's the proof.. there where on two wittiness that preached in the street for 1260 days, no 144,000 seal against the judgments, all the island of the world where not removed, the oceans turning to blood, the physical bodily return of Jesus, where ever eye shall see him. And surly not the end of the world.. again where is your proof...:biggrin
answer me that, without giving me the same scriptures that I can use that point to a future 7 yr tribulation...
Come Lord Jesus..
 
I believe pre-trib......mid trib... pre wrath.. post trib has no bearing on salvation. The scriptures are plain.. we who interpret them, get them wrong.. without pointing a finger here.. just my view..:biggrin
 
when the bible talks about the ac its mentions a man not just a spirit.
Actually, according to John's epistle, there were many antichrists because the spirit was already at work in the world. Not just a man: many men.

John writes of "the beast" in Revelation 13, and while this was a man, he is considered by some scholars to be Nero Caesar, who not only began the persecution against Christians simply because of Christ's name, but also ordered Cestius Gallus and Vespasian to put down the Judean revolt in 67 AD.

Here's a snippet from Tertullian on Nero:
Consult your Annals: there ye will find that Nero was the first to wreck the fury of the sword of the Caesars upon this sect [Christians], now springing up especially at Rome.
And this from Tacitus:
But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.
Clearly, Nero was an antichrist, but he was also the beast of Revelation 13, who was given power to wage war with the saints for 42 months. Nero began his persecution of Christians and war against the Jews in late 64/early 65 AD. He died by his own hand - having an assistant help him shove a short sword through his throat - on June 9, 68 AD: 3.5 years after his persecution against Christians began.

You can learn more about him here:

in order for the jerusalem to say baruchba be shem adonai, the isrealites must be in jersusalem to proclaim that as a nation. so what drives them to repent?
Jason, even you should know this one:

In Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse, what does he write:

{20} "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Luke 21:20 (NASB)
This was fulfilled in 70 AD: Jerusalem's house is still desolate. So, if Revelation and the Olivet Discourse all point to Jerusalem's desolation, where do we see her restoration???

Ezekiel 37.

And what causes them to repent after being restored?

Ezekiel 38 & 39.

When she is surrounded by the combined armies of Put (Libya), Cush (Sudan and Ethiopia), Persia (Iran), Turkey, they call on Him and He responds by saving them.

{18} "It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel," declares the Lord GOD, "that My fury will mount up in My anger. {19} "In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. {20} "The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground. {21} "I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains," declares the Lord GOD. "Every man's sword will be against his brother. {22} "With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone. {23} "I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the LORD."' Ezekiel 38:18-23 (NASB)

The futurist view believes Israel has yet to be destroyed, and believes a single antichrist will come to pitch the world into chaos by his actions against Israel.

The point of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation is that the generation that crucified Christ in "Mystery Babylon" has already paid for their sin. God is now at work to restore Israel because He cannot break His word to them.

This time when Israel is surrounded by hostile armies, the outcome will be significantly different in Israel's favor.

Hope this helps.
 
Why wait?


2But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Why wait for what Hitch?

What we wait for is the same thing Paul spoke of waiting for, and that is the blessed Day in which we are gathered up into Him, which by scripture we know happens at His coming.
I'm not waiting for salvation, i have salvation through the Saviour, i am waiting for the Day in which i am gathered up into Him with the rest of the body, the saints.
We have scripture that shows what will happen before that Day and it has and will happen and we have scripture of what will happen after that Day and it will happen and finally we have scripture of the end of all things, when He gives back to Him all that He has given Him, and it will happen and from that Day we shall forever be with the Lord.
From the time He gives back to Him all that He has given Him we shall forever be with God and Christ. Amen.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Some of the arguments against a 70 AD fulfillment now have simply "jumped the shark." My time is important and I'm tired of wasting it responding to the kind of nonsense people could answer for themselves if they bothered to read the Bible instead of "Left Behind."

I'm out. This thread has just gotten way too far off the rails for my taste. :nono2
 
Some of the arguments against a 70 AD fulfillment now have simply "jumped the shark." My time is important and I'm tired of wasting it responding to the kind of nonsense people could answer for themselves if they bothered to read the Bible instead of "Left Behind."

I'm out. This thread has just gotten way too far off the rails for my taste. :nono2

May the glory of the Lord be upon you, may you bring glory to Him in all things.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
what people dont read with a bias stormcrow? surely as a former catholic turned prostestant you are aware of that?

for the record i was raised a jw,didnt accept the trinity nor any possible return of isreal as a nation , nor did i believe in heaven for all saints.

is this for you.

Moving Towards a Third Temple

why are they doing this?and for the record, i never watched left behind totally. i was saved earlier then that and was asking questions on end times. the sad thing is most churches dont teach revalation so i have to read it for myself.i can count how many churches i have been to that teach from revalations. two.
 
what people dont read with a bias stormcrow? surely as a former catholic turned prostestant you are aware of that?

for the record i was raised a jw,didnt accept the trinity nor any possible return of isreal as a nation. the problem is while i could see that.

is this for you.

Moving Towards a Third Temple

why are they doing this?

They dont know Him, thats why they are trying to do this.
They reject Him, so they reject He who sent Him and so they are trying to do this.


Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
They dont know Him, thats why they are trying to do this.
They reject Him, so they reject He who sent Him and so they are trying to do this.


Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
that was directed towards stormcrow. how does reconcile that they are looking for another messiah. i am of hebrew descent my grandfather has been to the wailing wall and has told me that the jews are weeping for the restoration of the land to them and the messiah to bring peace.

sounds like they are being sincere but will be used by the devil.
 
I have a simple question? for those who believe that the bible was fulfilled in 70AD "Preterms" If revelation was fulfilled where is the proof. We know without doubt Adam and Eve existed, because here we are. We know Noah's flood happened you can evidence for it all over the world. We know Jesus came as a child, preached, was crucified and was raised again. History has documented this probably better than any other part of the bible. Now if all these life changing event took place and they did. Then why would the next step the second coming be in such question..
I didnt know that it was
We should see in history this happening. Christians should not be divided over this. Sure we have debate over the find tuning of prophecies. But not an all out deny of something that you say happened at 70 AD. Where's the proof.. there where on two wittiness that preached in the street for 1260 days, no 144,000 seal against the judgments, all the island of the world where not removed, the oceans turning to blood, the physical bodily return of Jesus, where ever eye shall see him. And surly not the end of the world.. again where is your proof...:biggrin
answer me that, without giving me the same scriptures that I can use that point to a future 7 yr tribulation...
Come Lord Jesus..
Do you mean the two witnesses the two olive trees or the two candle sticks,,,literally?
 
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that was directed towards stormcrow. how does reconcile that they are looking for another messiah. i am of hebrew descent my grandfather has been to the wailing wall and has told me that the jews are weeping for the restoration of the land to them and the messiah to bring peace.

sounds like they are being sincere but will be used by the devil.

My apologies, i saw the question so i answered in truth.
Any who rejects Him can be used by the devil until they not longer reject Him who was sent for them, Jew or Gentile.

They could build another temple, i dont see how it matters, they already reject Him so they reject Him whom sent Him,( i dont mean every Jew rejects Him when i say that, clearly many of the early church were Jewish and many Jews shall be called by His name) so a temple building and sacrifices doesnt make them reject Him more, they already reject Him currently.


"Even so come Lord Jesus!"

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

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