I have Net Zero so it is not limited and we rent and live on a private lane. The phone lines are to old for DSL and the phone company will not put in new ones unless the line breaks. We barely have cell service, but do get a signal.
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Bible Study The Rapture
- Thread starter Douglas Summers
- Start date
ezra
Member
you do live out in the buck brush i survived in dial up for years and got by pretty good. i use to run spade card game tournaments did mostly what i do know..only i dont run tournies any more
Hi Sister for_his_glory, I believe from your following portion of your answer that you’re aware Jesus had not yet died as we read of in Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. Although being God in the flesh, Jesus also remained heavenly.
What of all paradise now in heaven delivered from the lower parts of the earth where Jesus went when He died prior to going to our Father? Eph 4:9. In 2 Cor 12:4 we read where Paul was caught up into Paradise.
We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad, 2 Corinthians 5:1-10.
Do you realize that the church is to be judged first. In 1 Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God. Do we have record of such division of the body of Christ as to its obedience? We do, and it’s ongoing now as we read of the different qualities of our walk in Christ in Revelation Chapters Two & Three. The only thing we face later when we see Jesus is Him with our reward according to our work. Rev 22:12.;
Thanks.
There will be certain ones: the twenty-four elders, and the four beasts of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6 present with Jesus prior to the temptation to come upon all the world, which is the first three and one-half years versus Jacob's trouble which is the second three and one-half years of tribulation.
In Rev 6:1, Rev 6:3, Rev 6:5, and Rev 6:7 we see the four beasts even involved in directing the judgments; they are not being judged as the seals are opened.
I thought you would already be prepared.
ezra
Member
did i say i wasn't or did i miss something ?
ezra
Member
i dont know if it will be pre trib mid trib or after the tribulation . personally i do not see us going through the great tribulation . where God pours out his wrath...i i read God has not appointed us to wrath but to salvation.. granted that could be took many different ways...
i do not see him punish those Born again with the ones whoa re not. i lean toward mid trib but it really doesn't matter it will happen the way God wants it.. seems i read this early on but i sorta lean toward the pan theory ..live your life for Christ and it will all pan out.. he took care of the Children of Israel when Pharaoh refused to let the Children of Israel Go..
Sorry ezra, I took your 'being' as not yet, but still needing to be.
ezra
Member
not sure how you come to that conclusion
Apousía
Member
" self-willed teachers " ?
Well, I certainly wish you luck on your trip, but I certainly do not share your views, Doug
A quick look at the Concordance shows that you have perhaps chosen to overlook the meanings of the word " dead " in Greek:
νεκρος nekros {nek-ros'} from an apparently primary nekus (a corpse); TDNT - 4:892,627; adj AV - dead 132; 132 1) properly 1a) one that has breathed his last, lifeless 1b) deceased, departed, one whose soul is in Hades 1c) destitute of life, without life, inanimate 2) metaph. 2a) spiritually dead 2a1) destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins 2a2) inactive as respects doing right 2b) destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative
Well, I certainly wish you luck on your trip, but I certainly do not share your views, Doug
A quick look at the Concordance shows that you have perhaps chosen to overlook the meanings of the word " dead " in Greek:
νεκρος nekros {nek-ros'} from an apparently primary nekus (a corpse); TDNT - 4:892,627; adj AV - dead 132; 132 1) properly 1a) one that has breathed his last, lifeless 1b) deceased, departed, one whose soul is in Hades 1c) destitute of life, without life, inanimate 2) metaph. 2a) spiritually dead 2a1) destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins 2a2) inactive as respects doing right 2b) destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative
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Cygnus
Member
I thought the bible spoke of tribulation saints....if you disagree I might have to go and look it up for you.
Hi Sister for_his_glory, I believe from your following portion of your answer that you’re aware Jesus had not yet died as we read of in Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. Although being God in the flesh, Jesus also remained heavenly.
What of all paradise now in heaven delivered from the lower parts of the earth where Jesus went when He died prior to going to our Father? Eph 4:9. In 2 Cor 12:4 we read where Paul was caught up into Paradise.
We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad, 2 Corinthians 5:1-10.
Do you realize that the church is to be judged first. In 1 Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God. Do we have record of such division of the body of Christ as to its obedience? We do, and it’s ongoing now as we read of the different qualities of our walk in Christ in Revelation Chapters Two & Three. The only thing we face later when we see Jesus is Him with our reward according to our work. Rev 22:12.;
Thanks.
I know Jesus had not died yet when He said that in John 3:13, but the point is that Jesus is the life of God as the word of God was made flesh (Christ) to descend from Heaven then to finish His work and ascend back to Heaven, John 1:1-14. No one else ever has ascended to heaven other than Jesus.
Ephesians 4: 9, 10 Jesus had to descend to the lower parts of the earth after He died meaning the grave (tomb) he was laid in and then ascended back up to Heaven where He still sits at the right hand of the Father.
2 Corinthians 12:1-4 I don't know if you were ever completely overtaken by the Holy Spirit, some call it being slain in the Spirit, but when you are your legs feel like jelly and you just can not stand, John 18:6. This is what happened to Paul when that light surrounded him, which is so brilliant as I know for a fact that you feel like you are in paradise, that you really can not tell if you are or are not in your body. The voice of Jesus came from the third heaven being that Paul was caught up to that voice like being caught up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:1-10 is our motivation to be ready to be with Christ when He returns for His Bride as then we should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints, Rev 19:7-9.
Yes, we will all appear at the judgement seat of Christ as our rewards are Spiritual laid up in heaven until we come to be with the Lord forever, but there are also rewards for those that are not of God, but of a Pharisee spirit and their reward will be eternal separation from God and their reward of damnation when Jesus returns and separates the wheat from the tares or the sheep from the goats.
Our rewards are of five crowns: life, Glory, Rejoicing, Righteousness, Incorruptible.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
There will be certain ones: the twenty-four elders, and the four beasts of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6 present with Jesus prior to the temptation to come upon all the world, which is the first three and one-half years versus Jacob's trouble which is the second three and one-half years of tribulation.
In Rev 6:1, Rev 6:3, Rev 6:5, and Rev 6:7 we see the four beasts even involved in directing the judgments; they are not being judged as the seals are opened.
What does this have to do with what I asked in post # 40?
Gods wrath has nothing to do with those who are already His, but does have to do with us being faithful and trusting God as all these things fall around us. It will be those who are still alive at that time that will continue in the witness and testimony of Christ as even during Gods wrath He is longsuffering that none should perish and there will be those who will finally have ears to hear the Gospel being preached to them.
Two scriptures that stand out to me are:
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Yes it does, but so I do not assume anything can you give me the scripture you are speaking of and then I will discuss it. Thank you.
There will be certain ones: the twenty-four elders, and the four beasts of Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6 present with Jesus prior to the temptation to come upon all the world, which is the first three and one-half years versus Jacob's trouble which is the second three and one-half years of tribulation.
In Rev 6:1, Rev 6:3, Rev 6:5, and Rev 6:7 we see the four beasts even involved in directing the judgments; they are not being judged as the seals are opened.
To me it answers your question as to whether there are certain ones of the Church caught up to Jesus prior to the tribulation. If you're not with Jesus here, the next rapture are those of the Church that come out of great tribulation told us in Rev 7:14-15. Right in these separate scriptures we see two different categories of reward bestowed on us as to our walk in Christ.
Hi Sister, do you think it strange that God had Paul use the verbiage he used to explain his experience of being caught up due to being slain in the Spirit?
Would that mean that the thief on the cross remains in the lower parts of the earth (Abraham’s bosom; the abode of the Old Testament righteous) where Jesus went with him the day He was crucified? According to scripture, were those cognizant of their surroundings?
Quoting Rev 4:1, and using the expression being caught up do you think John also was only slain in the Spirit? John said in
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day (This is not Sunday), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
dirtfarmer
Member
Hi Sister, do you think it strange that God had Paul use the verbiage he used to explain his experience of being caught up due to being slain in the Spirit?
Would that mean that the thief on the cross remains in the lower parts of the earth (Abraham’s bosom; the abode of the Old Testament righteous) where Jesus went with him the day He was crucified? According to scripture, were those cognizant of their surroundings?
Quoting Rev 4:1, and using the expression being caught up do you think John also was only slain in the Spirit? John said in
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day (This is not Sunday), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
hello Eugene, dirtfarmer here
I have one request, You mentioned "slain in the Spirit" could you explain being "slain in the Spirit" and give the verse or verses that that is based on? You can PM me if you want to.
Thanks dirtfarmer
Hi Brother dirtfarmer, and good question. I just used the term in response to Sister for_his_glory where she referred to it in her post #52 as being "your legs feel like jelly and you just can not stand, John 18:6"
The term "Slain in the Spirit" seems to have been brought forth from the recent Charismatic movement of the Church as describing manifestations occurring when the Spirit comes upon a person.
I have studied it a bit and have accumulated the following written thoughts on it.
Slain in the Spirit
Many experience what they refer to as being "Slain in the Spirit" after receiving great revelations much like Daniel below just fainted as it were.
Dan 10:7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
Dan 10:8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.
Dan 10:9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
Dan 10:15 And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb.
Dan 10:16 And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.
Dan 10:17 For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
An article I read on it from this URL goes a bit into it, and there is also much unverifiable that could be fake, but it does happen.
http://carm.org/questions/about-church/what-does-it-mean-be-slain-spirit
The term "slain in the Spirit" is used in the Charismatic circles of Christian Churches to designate a supposed movement of the Holy Spirit upon a person. The claim is that the Holy Spirit moves with such power on a person, that the person is "slain." This does not mean the person dies, but that he/she is so overcome by the presence of the Spirit that he/she falls down to the ground being completely overcome.
Many evangelists have televised meetings where Christians gather. Some of these meetings have special times of healing or "receiving the Spirit." This is where the "evangelist," who is supposedly anointed to be able to do this, goes around putting his hand on peoples' foreheads causing them to fall down -- to be slain in the Spirit -- as they are overcome by the presence of the Holy Spirit. This display is unfortunate since it is unverifiable, ostentatious, and could very well be nothing more than the overcoming power of emotions of a person.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.
civilwarbuff
Member
I can't speak to anyone elses experience but when I got saved and the Holy Spirit came to me my knees buckled and had it not been for the pew in front of me I would have been flat on the floor. Testimony to the power of the HS........