Bible Study The Rapture

[Jim Parker]

I have prayed in tongues, but that was between me and the Lord, but it profits nothing if no one understands what you are saying, for it does not glorify the Body of Christ. (1 Cor. 14:5-7)

Right.
Those are two different circumstances.
Praying in tongues is for our personal edification. ( 1Co 14:4a He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,)
But Paul rebuked the Corinthian church for what, to me, seems like people showing off as to how well they could speak in tongues for the benefit of absolutely nobody.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Some folks will say anything just to be contrary .. So very sad...

Some folks don't need to comment on why they think others say what they say.

 

[Jim Parker]

The twenty-four elders in the heavenly sanctuary of God are responsible for worship, for the music of worship, and as such they stand as the gatekeepers of the house of God.

Twenty-four is the number of the Priestly Courses as given in 1. Chron. 24:1-19. When David distributed the Priests into "Courses" he found there were 24 Heads of the Priestly families, and these 24 Heads he made representative of the WHOLE PRIESTHOOD.

 

[ezra]

tongues is just like the subject of eternal security between man it will never be settled . there are folks on both sides that take it to the extreme . each person lives and believes the way the feel is right... there is no certain church doctrine that is %100 correct

 

[ezra]

actually how did tongues get in this ?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Love is also an action word that leads to the emotions of our heart.

The Love of God is not an emotional love like humans. God's love is a fortress. A place of refuge, hope, a rock to stand on, patient, is not easily angered, keeps no record of wrong, God's love always protects, is eternal, Always perseveres, Love is who God is and is a supernatural attribute of God. Yes man is emotional, even an evil man can love his own children. It is not the Love of God. Man does not have it, nor can he on this side. The closes man can come is to die to self and live unto Christ, but until this body is dissolved, God is our fortress. (1 Cor. 13:1-13)

 

[Eugene]

Rev 4:1-11
After the seven Churches received their messages John, who was in the Spirit, now sees twenty-four elders seated around the throne of God.

Hi Sister for_his_glory, there is so much to cover in your post I will attempt to reply to segments of its entirety.

When to you does John see Jesus in this scenario? Right or wrong, my notes in the KJV New Scofield says Revelation was written in 95 AD.

John says in Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Is this time point future to the Day of the Lord when Jesus receives His throne in Rev 4:2, or back there in 95 AD. To me, when Jesus takes the throne given Him things begin to happen, and there are two portions of the Church present with Him. How do they get there? They have crowns, and since we’re reading of the Church there are only two portions of the Church that are said to have crowns, and they are the Smyrna saints of Rev 2:10, and the Philadelphia saints of Rev 3:10. This to me seems to fit the pattern of 1 Thes 4:16-17 of the dead being raised first, and then those who are alive caught up together with them to meet the lord in the air. Has this already occurred to you?

Does this disagree with John 6:40 which you posteed in Reply #54? “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” When is this to you?

I stop here for the time being and await your reply.

 

[Eugene]

At Pentecost tongues were spoken in foreign languages so that the foreigners in Jerusalem would hear prophesying in their own language. (Acts 2:3-17)

I agree with your post, but because some cause confusion, and the pastor should control those out of order, should that have had an effect on Paul as he said in:
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

When me, my wife and kids began attending a Pentecostal service, there was a young woman after the meeting up in a corner of the altar and choir area praying quietly in tongues that my wife heard while also praying near her, and my wife being Spanish recognized the language as Spanish. Later my wife asked the young woman about it and she said she did not know Spanish at all. Why did this occur? I do not know, but for my wife's faith possibly.
A friend from Old USSR Russia came to Church and heard another saint speaking in her native Kazakh language of Kazahkstan, she asked them about it and they too said they didn't know that language. On things I truly do not fully understand, I hesitate to question unless it was causing undue confusion.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I agree with your post, but because some cause confusion, and the pastor should control those out of order, should that have had an effect on Paul as he said in:
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

When me, my wife and kids began attending a Pentecostal service, there was a young woman after the meeting up in a corner of the altar and choir area praying quietly in tongues that my wife heard while also praying near her, and my wife being Spanish recognized the language as Spanish. Later my wife asked the young woman about it and she said she did not know Spanish at all. Why did this occur? I do not know, but for my wife's faith possibly.
A friend from Old USSR Russia came to Church and heard another saint speaking in her native Kazakh language of Kazahkstan, she asked them about it and they too said they didn't know that language. On things I truly do not fully understand, I hesitate to question unless it was causing undue confusion.

I don't know Eugene, I'm Just a little skeptical. I know there are people that if you do not speak in tongues say you are not saved. I always go by the leading of the Spirit. If it gives me pride or magnifies my flesh giving me status in the Church.....I reject it. The Spirit has always given me the joy of sharing or receiving testimony and the victories centered in Christ, true Spiritual fellowship and worship when we meet, taking care of the needy and missionaries to spread the gospel. The Church is much more than just about me, how much more joy there is when someone receives the light of God in Jesus Christ than that I could speak tongues.

 

[Eugene]

I know there are people that if you do not speak in tongues say you are not saved.

I disagree with this also. Let me ask it using this following scenario.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth (the Holy Spirit); whom the world (unbelievers) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him (you are saved); for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (When?)

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. Noting the fact in Jn 14:17 that unbelievers cannot receive the Holy Spirit, does this say that those receiving the Holy Spirit had to already be saved?

 

[Douglas Summers]

I disagree with this also. Let me ask it using this following scenario.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth (the Holy Spirit); whom the world (unbelievers) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him (you are saved); for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (When?)

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. Noting the fact in Jn 14:17 that unbelievers cannot receive the Holy Spirit, does this say that those receiving the Holy Spirit had to already be saved?

Hi Eugene, I did not agree with it, I was just saying, I have been told by those who claim to speak tongues that that proves they were saved and had the Holy Spirit. It was when I answered The Lords calling that I received the Holy Spirit, and it was an action wholly separate of anything I could imagine. It was just like the Lord described it (John 3:7-8). And there is plenty of times I wish I could speak in different tongues to witness to foreigners. But all I could do was to smile and treat them in the Spirit of Christ to witness. It is funny how we try to do the work of the Lord by the will of the flesh. A Baptist Church I went to would have a day to go witness in the neighborhood and they would have a day to train those how to witness. There were many different techniques that were suggested (works of the flesh). But the more I grew in God's grace and the more intimate I became with the Lord, the more the Spirit witnessed through me. Witnessing should never be a carnal action. Saul never witnessed for God....But Paul did. Saul of Tarsus was a devout Jew (a Pharissee) (Philippians 3:4-6), But Paul of Christ (Acts Chapter 9) (Acts 13:13) was Christ in him (Gal. 2:20).

 

[reba]

Growing up in a Pentecostal home tongues was no big deal.. Growing up 'knowing' tongues is a sign of salvation hit a wall when i found that not to be true.. Tongues can be a sign of salvation . big difference. ... Tongues is easy to fake .. hear a lot of it.... .. When those who insist tongues is a must for baptism in the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:4 i will ask them about the evidence of Act 2:3

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The reply to Acts 2:3 has always been to dance around it..

To me the Scriptures below are of equal value as being the Word of God ...


1Co_13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

 

[Cygnus]

The greeks have 3 words for love.....the Bible uses 2 of the 3. Agape and brotherly...eros is not used.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Sister for_his_glory, there is so much to cover in your post I will attempt to reply to segments of its entirety.

When to you does John see Jesus in this scenario? Right or wrong, my notes in the KJV New Scofield says Revelation was written in 95 AD.

John says in Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Is this time point future to the Day of the Lord when Jesus receives His throne in Rev 4:2, or back there in 95 AD. To me, when Jesus takes the throne given Him things begin to happen, and there are two portions of the Church present with Him. How do they get there? They have crowns, and since we’re reading of the Church there are only two portions of the Church that are said to have crowns, and they are the Smyrna saints of Rev 2:10, and the Philadelphia saints of Rev 3:10. This to me seems to fit the pattern of 1 Thes 4:16-17 of the dead being raised first, and then those who are alive caught up together with them to meet the lord in the air. Has this already occurred to you?

Does this disagree with John 6:40 which you posteed in Reply #54? “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” When is this to you?

I stop here for the time being and await your reply.

Sorry this is long, but there is so much and this is as short as I can make it to answer your questions.

John did write all these revelations (visions) around 95 A.D. while he was exiled to the isle of Patmos for the witness and testimony of Christ. John was in the Spirit on the day the angel of the Lord came to Him (on the Lord's day) and only heard the voice that spoke to him as it was described as a trumpet. John never actually saw Jesus or literally taken up to the third heaven, but was only in the Spirit on the isle of Patmos when the angel gave him all the visions he saw and wrote down for the seven churches who also represent all of us that make up the body of Christ. Matthew 23:39; John 3:13.

In vs. 12, 13 while John is in the Spirit he turns to see the voice that spoke to him and saw seven candle sticks and in the midst of the candle sticks one like unto the Son of God. The key word in vs.13 is "like" the Son of God, but not Jesus himself as this is the angel Jesus sends to him, vs 1, as Jesus instructed this angel what to speak to John. John continues to describe this angel, vs. 13-17, and then given the meaning of the seven stars and seven candlesticks.

I do not see where Jesus is given a throne in Rev 4:2. John was in the Spirit and sees the vision of a throne and one sat on the throne. I believe this is the throne room of God by that of the description given it in the rest of this chapter.

In Rev 11:15 we read that all the Kingdoms of the world have now become the Kingdoms of the Lord. At this time of the seventh trumpet, which includes the vial judgements, the mystery of God will be finished as he declared this to the prophets, Revelation 10:7. At the end of the seventh trumpet God will make an end to all sinful abominations here on earth against His people as His mighty power will reign as now the blood of the martyred saints will be avenged. The seventh trumpet is sounded in Rev 11:15 and continues with all the events from Rev 11:15 through Rev 19 and then we will be with the Lord forever

I already explained the 24 Elders in post # 68 and how the earthly Elders are patterned after them. I believe the last day mentioned in John 6:40 is the very last day here on earth after mystery Babylon is destroyed, Rev 18 and then we are caught up to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air as He returns to destroy the beast and false prophet throwing them into the lake of fire. All the Kingdoms on earth will have now become the Kingdoms of the Lord as Satan will also be cast into the lake of fire as he has no more authority on earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

Twenty-four is the number of the Priestly Courses as given in 1. Chron. 24:1-19. When David distributed the Priests into "Courses" he found there were 24 Heads of the Priestly families, and these 24 Heads he made representative of the WHOLE PRIESTHOOD.

There are heavenly things from above that are patterns for the things of God here on earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Love of God is not an emotional love like humans. God's love is a fortress. A place of refuge, hope, a rock to stand on, patient, is not easily angered, keeps no record of wrong, God's love always protects, is eternal, Always perseveres, Love is who God is and is a supernatural attribute of God. Yes man is emotional, even an evil man can love his own children. It is not the Love of God. Man does not have it, nor can he on this side. The closes man can come is to die to self and live unto Christ, but until this body is dissolved, God is our fortress. (1 Cor. 13:1-13)

Would not love be action and emotion of our heart when we realize the love God has for us as we have that same compassion for others and help them in their time of need, or are we just to pat people on the back like a Pastor did to me one time and tell them everything will be alright.

 

[Jim Parker]

or are we just to pat people on the back like a Pastor did to me one time and tell them everything will be alright.

Did you punch him?
Just kidding.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Would not love be action and emotion of our heart when we realize the love God has for us as we have that same compassion for others and help them in their time of need, or are we just to pat people on the back like a Pastor did to me one time and tell them everything will be alright.

It is much more than that glory, as Christ makes clear, even an evil man can have compassion and emotion (Matt. 7:11)

 

[Eugene]

John was in the Spirit on the day the angel of the Lord came to Him (on the Lord's day)

One of my favorite questions is to address what the Lord's Day, or the Day of the Lord is. From that point in time there are three viewpoints addressed in Rev 1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter.

John never actually saw Jesus or literally taken up to the third heaven, but was only in the Spirit on the isle of Patmos when the angel gave him all the visions he saw and wrote down for the seven churches who also represent all of us that make up the body of Christ.

Really? In Rev 4:1 we read: Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Was John actually caught up in spirit to heaven to observe things to occur hereafter from that point in time of the Lord's Day? You mention an angel; do you know who Jesus' angel of Rev 1:1 is, and where it was? Again it gets too long to keep up with in one post, so I'll only address portions of your post, and attempt to reply to the other parts on separate replies. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

 

[Eugene]

I do not see where Jesus is given a throne in Rev 4:2. John was in the Spirit and sees the vision of a throne and one sat on the throne. I believe this is the throne room of God by that of the description given it in the rest of this chapter.

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. Wasn't our Father's throne always in heaven?
Who was sitting on this new throne?
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. Is not this book of Revelation the revelation of God's Son Jesus? Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass. Who else would this throne being set be for?
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Dear sister, this is Jesus.
Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever.

Has Jesus taken that "all power & authority" we read of in Mt 28:18? If so, why are nations still in power? That will not be the case in the Lord's Day.