The reason you cant lose your salvation is?.....

[chessman]

So it is your opinion that Paul, in writing to the Church in Galatia, is only addressing Jews?

no. That would be silly logic wouldn't it. To think an entire church was either all Jewish or Gentile (Or 100% full of True Christians).

Chessman, it looks as you have misapplied Paul's word, not Jethro.

JLB

only if you think Jethro's acquaintances now desire to be circumcised is Gal 5 applicable to them.

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

Thus, if these "fallen from Grace", severed and circumcised God believers still loved God in their hearts, yet got circumcised anyway out of ignorance, I cannot imagine God would administer Wrath to them, but maybe??? That's His business.

That is why the Spirit had Paul write the words -

3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:3-4

So they wouldn't be ignorant any longer.

The bigger picture is why anyone would argue with what is written in the scriptures, and just seems to decide what God should or should not do, or if God is just in administering wrath or punishment to whom He chooses.

The issue here is why do we over rule what the bible says, because of the doctrine we have been taught by Pastors or teachers.

You have repeatedly challenged this message and repeatedly been proven wrong by the scriptures.

At what point are you going to believe what is written?

I love you anyway, Brother.


JLB

 

[chessman]

At what point are you going to believe what is written?

I do believe what is written in God's Word. Just as soon as you post an example of a Christian being said by God's Word to be saved, yet no longer saved later, I'll believe it.

For example, you just said Paul wrote to them so they wouldn't be ignorant. Okay, I buy that he wrote to them so they would not be ignorant about being a debtor to the law. So? You think only non-ignorant people about the law are saved? I doubt that. (Think the thief)

3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:3-4

Hmm??? Just ten verses later:

Galatians 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” ​

Technically, even if these Galatians went ahead and ignorantly or obstinately got circumcised anyway, accordingly to Paul, ten verses later they could love their neighbor as yourself and still be saved. Right? I mean, if you want to make a case from Scripture, make it. You've not!

As I said before, IDK what would happen to them at God's judgment. What does Paul say in his letter? I don't find him giving a definitive answer. He even sounds like he's perplexed about it himself. He just knows they have no requirement to be circumcised and is writing to tell them not to do it. It's stupid, don't do it (to paraphrase).

But he never says that if they do, they become unsaved. If he did, you would have posted it already and I would have long since believed it. These are some of the passages that it think imply Paul's a little perplexed himself:

Galatians 4:8-11, 20-21 Galatians 3:9 But at that time when you did not know God, you were enslaved to the things which by nature are not gods.
So then, the ones who have faith are blessed together with Abraham [uncircumcised Abraham] who believed. But now, because you have come to know God [Jesus ties #1 with "love your neighbor" being "like it"] or rather have come to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and miserable elemental spirits?

[Note: this would have been a perfect place for Paul to say "Do you want to become un-saved", but he doesn't. What does he say is the consequences? Read on.]

Do you want to be enslaved to them all over again? [which BTW, puts a damper on your idea that this is not a Jewish centered topic/letter]

You carefully observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest perhaps I have labored for you in vain! But I could wish to be present with you now, and to change my tone because I am perplexed about you. Tell me, you who are wanting to be under the law, do you not understand the law? ​

And then proceeds to tell them all about it [the law]. And indeed tells them not to be enslaved to it again. But what he never tells them is that Abraham's descendants were not saved nor will they become "un-saved". (Circumcised or not he says does not matter. Their heart's love for God does, though)

Anyway, as I said (because Paul does)
"Falling from Grace" means "attempting to be justified by the law" Not un-saved.

I love you anyway, Brother.

I love you too. I even like you.

Your posts are educational to me. Most I agree with. The one's I don't, I check out myself and sometimes find where you were right and I was wrong and never say a word about it. The one's I look into and still think you are wrong about, I push back a bit to see who's right. You might be in some cases. But not all.

On Gal 5's "fall from Grace" being a synonym for "fall from salvation", you guys are just wrong. [yes I know that's not evidence.] But the evidence has already been posted. Not to mention, it's right there in the very verse what "fall from grace" means.
It does NOT mean lose salvation.

And it certainly doesn't equate to being applicable to a professing christian who later professes atheism. With all due respect, that should be obvious.

you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace​

That was really my main point. It makes your case look very, very weak when you post "fall from Grace" within your arguments as if it's a Biblically based synonym for "fall from salvation". I don't buy it and posted against it.
Since your case for it is so very weak, usually that means name calling shortly follows!

But if you'd like to post the Scripture where Paul tells the Galatians that do go ahead and sever themselves with circumcision, etc. and thusly they become un-saved because of it, please do. That would be good evidence.

You've really done nothing but re-post the same Scriptures that we all read and name call to 'prove' otherwise.

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

I do believe what is written in God's Word.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

...of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past.

...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


What part of this verse do you believe?

This same Paul, wrote to the Romans, about the flesh -

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

This same Paul wrote to the Corinthian Church -

8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10


We know that if a person is not saved they will not inherit the kingdom of God, so there is no use in trying to say these admonitions are for unbelievers.

Paul writes the same thing to people who are Gentile Christians in these Churches.

Paul warns them about these things which will cause them to lose their inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Sin disconnects us from God.

Sin separates us from God.

God has called us to walk with Him.

He has called us to walk in the Spirit, so that you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

If you are not walking with God, you are not walking in faith.

Faith comes from hearing God.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

we are called to continue in faith.

We are called to go from faith to faith.

If you live the life of walking in the flesh, there is only condemnation to look forward too.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Those who endure to the end will be saved.

The end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.

If we live the life of the flesh, then die of a heart attack... there is only condemnation to look forward too.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.


JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Sorry.

I would rather be on the other side of this thing, as it makes me uncomfortable, that is to say my flesh.

I don't think any of us want to think we can lose our salvation.

There is a balance to God's word.

I find that the admonition from the Spirit through the Apostles to us is walking in the Spirit.

Dwelling in the Spirit.

Obeying His Voice.

Being led by the Spirit.

That is where our effort is.

Not trying to "earn" or "keep" our Salvation by the ability of the flesh.

I believe at some point, the Spirit of Christ in us would express the same works that He did.

Why would we expect the Spirit of Christ in us to be different that He was in Jesus or Paul?

I myself really have no excuse, except to turn from this world and spend more and more time in His Presence and strive to hear His Voice and be led by His Spirit.

More and more I find myself hungering and thirsting for more of Him.

The more I repent of fleshly and carnal habits, the more I hunger and thirst for righteousness.

The more I desire to invest in the spirit within and the more I desire to be set apart and consecrated to Him.

Everything I write about this subject is directed to myself first...

I will be the first one not to inherit the kingdom if I don't walk in these things.

I can only strive for the crucified life...not looking back.

Personally, I don't think anyone has presented this message more eloquently than you.

I can't believe anyone would not see how well you have shown from the scriptures, over and over the truth about this very uncomfortable message.

Well done servant of the Most High God!


JLB

No disrespect Jethro or JLB. This is my point when debating with you. No Grace mentioned, no mercy, it is all what "You" can And will do.

You are " What Can I do for Jesus.".........DUNG

Not a word of ,"What Jesus has done for You.".....All your posts are like that. He fails If you start Glorifying Him, and Lose your salvation.

I do pray that one day you will see this. When we figure out that we can do NO good for Him, He will use us for His Good Purpose.

If you are not striving in your flesh then God is doing it and He fails if you lose your salvation.

If you are NOT striving in your flesh, then WHO fails if you lose your salvation?

 

[jeff77]

What I understand about OSAS is that everything one must do please God is somehow done automatically?

 

[gr8grace3]

What I understand about OSAS is that everything one must do please God is somehow done automatically?

I agree with you Jeff. OSAS is primarily a reformation Idea and debated from a reformation point of view.

Eternal security is debated from a grace Idea.. Eternally saved and then what the believer SHOULD do. Not WILL do.

Once we make the one time(freewill,common Grace) decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, He saves the believer.....done deal.

Then He Gives us the freedom to choose and follow Him out of thankfulness for what He did for us. He does not throw us to the curb if we are Idiots and throw Him to the Curb.......It is called Grace.

 

[Eugene]

There continues to be misunderstanding on what Jesus' death purchased for us which believe, and the purpose of a sanctified walk in Christ. The one is the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, and the second is reward of being led in the paths of righteousness while following after the Spirit instead of the flesh.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Personally, I don't think anyone has presented this message more eloquently than you.

I can't believe anyone would not see how well you have shown from the scriptures, over and over the truth about this very uncomfortable message.

Well done servant of the Most High God!


JLB

Aw shucks. Now you dun made me blush.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If it looks that way to you, that’s on you. Just because you missed the fact that I was addressing only the phrase "fall from Grace" not the whole letter is not a good reason to think I’ve misapplied Paul’s other words in the letter. I was merely pointing out that the phrase cannot logically be applied to his acquaintance's situation. Yet he does.

I don't understand your question. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the "OSAS doctrine" or its exceptions which is probably why I'm not sure what you mean. However, I do care that I use the phrase "fall from Grace" properly and in accordance to how Paul used it. When debating reasons someone might lose their salvation I don't see how Gal 5 is applicable. However, if you ever run across a Christian that desires to circumcise himself, then bring up Gal 5 to him. Maybe it will help him not sever himself.

It still looks to me as if your examples have no desire whatsoever to be circumcised. Right? Which is why I asked you if they did first. Like dominos falling, if the reason your examples have become un-saved in your view is that they got circumcised and started killing bulls, etc. then you might be able to apply “feel from Grace” to their situation. Otherwise, it's n/a.

So I asked if that was the case, first. Then since you answered no, it started the dominos on their way to the logical conclusion that, that passage really doesn’t apply to them then. See how this works? I doubt it.
It doesn't say they lost their salvation or were about to. Simply that they were about to sever themselves, umm cut themselves. Frankly, I don't know what God will do to those that "fell from Grace" there, if any did. The reason I posted the 1 Cor 4 passage is I think Paul is saying that sins (recognized ones or unrecognized ones that even Paul might have) are Jesus' business to deal with as He chooses when He judges people's hearts. Thus, if these "fallen from Grace", severed and circumcised God believers still loved God in their hearts, yet got circumcised anyway out of ignorance, I cannot imagine God would administer Wrath to them, but maybe??? That's His business.
No, I don't agree with that. So thanks for asking if it was correct. I would agree if Paul would have said they were going to or did lose their salvation if they got circumcised, etc. He doesn't say it though. I thought your argument for OSAS was based on people that rejected God outright, not people that still loved God.
But I do know that Gal 5 has little to nothing to do with people that hate God (after their salvation) as these people loved God (and Christ, BTW). They were merely confused about circumcision as they had people telling them a bunch of bull.

If these God lovers attempted circumcision (severe themselves from Christ, pardon the pun), I don't know what God would do with them in the end.
okay, I'm glad you mentioned that. Maybe you can see all the more how the Gal 5 "falling from Grace" by circumcision phrase is NOT applicable to them, then. The Galatians were being taught to do precisely the opposite thing. They were being taught by some to continue to obey God's laws of circumcision, not hate God's laws. It’s 180 off from your example. That’s my point!
That’s not staying on topic, that’s simply stating your opinion. You are the one that brings Rev 3's vomit you out, up in these OSAS threads very, very often. For the same reason "fall from Grace" is not applicable to your examples, that phrase is not either. Their message in which we find the phrase "vomit you out of my mouth" is about Christians that still loved Christ only that they thought their wealth was self-derived. And Jesus gives them a rebuke for it by issuing advice to them:

advise, nakedness, blindness ,love, reprove, discipline and repentance. are all in context​

You bring in anti-salvation into Rev 3's context just like you do God rejecters into Gal 5's context. I agree the phrase “vomit you out of my mouth” is off topic to the discussion of losing one’s salvation. So If you don’t bring it up again, I will not.

The rest of your logic is about as good as this statement.
Brother, when you post something on a public Forum, it’s no secret.

You said a lot of words to make the simple words of the Bible not mean what they plainly say:

"...you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace" (Galatians 5:4 NASB)

When believers reject the Christ through whom they were justified they lose the grace of that justification. Whether it be through law keeping, or no keeping, if a believer walks away from the justification they have received in Jesus Christ there is no other legal justification in heaven or earth by which they can stand righteous before God. They will now have no choice but to stand in their own righteousness.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The point is, Galatians shows us that it is indeed possible for believers to lose the justification they have. They did it--or were in danger of doing that--through reliance on another way to be justified. Regardless of the way you turn from the forgiveness of sins you have in Jesus Christ, the point is when you do that you lose that forgiveness of sins you had.

 

[Eugene]

Aw shucks. Now you dun made me blush.

Pride cometh before a fall.

 

[JLB]

No disrespect Jethro or JLB. This is my point when debating with you. No Grace mentioned, no mercy, it is all what "You" can And will do.

You are " What Can I do for Jesus.".........DUNG

Not a word of ,"What Jesus has done for You.".....All your posts are like that. He fails If you start Glorifying Him, and Lose your salvation.

I do pray that one day you will see this. When we figure out that we can do NO good for Him, He will use us for His Good Purpose.

If you are not striving in your flesh then God is doing it and He fails if you lose your salvation.

If you are NOT striving in your flesh, then WHO fails if you lose your salvation?

We are discussing losing the Salvation that was purchased by the Blood of Jesus, by His Grace through faith.

Now that we have been granted His Spirit and the right to BECOME children of God.

I have been given the right to Become a child of God!

What are you doing with the right to BECOME a child of God!

How many scriptures have been presented to this thread about our responsibility in our Salvation.

It is His Grace, and our faith.

I believe what the scripture says.

Please present your scripture and let's discuss.

It seems you have been taught that you can live anyway you want because you have been saved.

The scripture contains more than that.

The end of your faith is the Salvation of soul.

My message to you and this thread, walk with God.

Seek Him, to live a life to be led by the Spirit.

Show us scriptures that validate what you believe.

Thanks


JLB

 

[JLB]

Pride cometh before a fall.

Why do you say he has pride?

He has spent years and countless hours of prayer and study to bring a clear and difficult message that is clearly unpopular to you and others who may have been taught error about eternal life.

If he has brought you the truth, has he now become your enemy?

Please Brother, share some scripture so we can learn what you believe.

Let's discover the balance of truth in this message.

Bless you Brother.

JLB

 

[JLB]

There continues to be misunderstanding on what Jesus' death purchased for us which believe, and the purpose of a sanctified walk in Christ. The one is the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, and the second is reward of being led in the paths of righteousness while following after the Spirit instead of the flesh.

Yes Brother there is misunderstanding.

The sanctified walk needs to be explained.

Please share with us what you have come to learn by His Spirit and His word, about our sanctified walk.

That's a great topic for discussion.

Bless you as you share.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

You've really done nothing but re-post the same Scriptures that we all read and name call to 'prove' otherwise.

Sorry for being redundant.

I post a lot of scriptures that point out our responsibility to work out our Salvation with fear and trembling.

I try to just say what the scripture says and use the language of scripture to share.

I know this is a subject that tends to be heated.

I have not seen any scripture that shows us that No one can lose their Salvation.

If anyone has a scripture then post it here and now and then the thread will close.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5

Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

I would rather be on the other side of this thing, as it makes me uncomfortable, that is to say my flesh.

I don't think any of us want to think we can lose our salvation.

There is a balance to God's word.

I find that the admonition from the Spirit through the Apostles to us is walking in the Spirit.

Dwelling in the Spirit.

Obeying His Voice.

Being led by the Spirit.

That is where our effort is.

Not trying to "earn" or "keep" our Salvation by the ability of the flesh.

I believe at some point, the Spirit of Christ in us would express the same works that He did.

Why would we expect the Spirit of Christ in us to be different that He was in Jesus or Paul?

I myself really have no excuse, except to turn from this world and spend more and more time in His Presence and strive to hear His Voice and be led by His Spirit.

More and more I find myself hungering and thirsting for more of Him.

The more I repent of fleshly and carnal habits, the more I hunger and thirst for righteousness.

The more I desire to invest in the spirit within and the more I desire to be set apart and consecrated to Him.

Everything I write about this subject is directed to myself first...

I will be the first one not to inherit the kingdom if I don't walk in these things.

I can only strive for the crucified life...not looking back.




JLB

 

[Eugene]

Please Brother, share some scripture so we can learn what you believe. Let's discover the balance of truth in this message.

I believe I am born of God by grace through the measure of faith given to me, and my believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Are you born of God, and I would ask why? If keeping any of the commandments are a part of the salvation you possess, please tell me which ones. It seems a rich young man came to Jesus confessing he kept them all, and yet lacked.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life. I believe eternal is exactly that.

If you would know what I believe I wrote the following pamphlet.
Salvation with Security – 1, 2, 3
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell...ds/salvation-with-security-parts-1-2-3.52236/

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[JLB]

I agree with you Jeff. OSAS is primarily a reformation Idea and debated from a reformation point of view.

Eternal security is debated from a grace Idea.. Eternally saved and then what the believer SHOULD do. Not WILL do.

Once we make the one time(freewill,common Grace) decision to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, He saves the believer.....done deal.

Then He Gives us the freedom to choose and follow Him out of thankfulness for what He did for us. He does not throw us to the curb if we are Idiots and throw Him to the Curb.......It is called Grace.

Please share the chapter and verse that proves your opinion to be true.

receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. John 1:12

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

You will receive the crown of life when approved.

You will not receive the crown of life if not approved.

The Lord has promised to those who love Him.

JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe I am born of God by grace through the measure of faith given to me, and my believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Are you born of God, and I would ask why? If keeping any of the commandments are a part of the salvation you possess, please tell me which ones. It seems a rich young man came to Jesus confessing he kept them all, and yet lacked.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life. I believe eternal is exactly that.

If you would know what I believe I wrote the following pamphlet.
Salvation with Security – 1, 2, 3
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell...ds/salvation-with-security-parts-1-2-3.52236/

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

I believe that believing on the Name of the Son of God is the beginning of your Salvation...

Not the end.

I believe Jesus is the only Way, the only Truth and the Only Life.

No one comes to the Father except through Him.

Between that moment and the end of my life is where the testing and temptation and approval comes in.

The end of my faith is the Salvation of my soul.

Have I ever been tested by a threat of death to my Family if I don't renounce Jesus as Lord.

Have I been threatened with death if I don't convert to Islam.

Have I been threatened by beheading if I don't take the mark of the beast.


Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Have I finished my course?

Have I kept the faith to the end.

He who endures to the end, will be saved.

The end of my faith is the Salvation of my soul.

The Lord Bless you and keep you.
The Lord make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you.
The Lord lift up His Countenance upon you and give you peace.


JLB