THE UNFORGIVEN SIN

[Nathan]

I said this:
"Right. None will. That is eternal security. No one He gives eternal life to will perish.

So, once saved, always saved. Or,
Once eternal life, will never perish."

Why not? Jesus said, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." Jn 10:28

Therefore, whoever receives eternal life will never perish, because Jesus said so.


All of physical bodies will die. That has nothing to do with eternal life. Even unbelievers will exist for ever and ever, but it's not called "life", it's called the second death, which is being separated from God in the lake of fire.

Do you not believe Jesus truly, completely, died? Or do you only believe His physical body died?

The redemption of our souls only was accomplished because Christ died - completely cut off from life.

Since Christ who had eternal life was cut off from that life, then it should help you understand what eternal life is - and how sin can seperate you from it.

It should remind us not to think less than we should of Gods grace toward us.

 

[markathome]

Of course these verses don't matter?
Matthew 12:31–32
Mark 3:28—30
Luke 12:10
To bypass aka remove these verses the simple process is to say:
1 it only applied to the Jews from 1900+ years ago so it doesn't apply today
2 it only applies to those who reject the Gospel Message.
3 Numerous other junk theories whatever our itching ears like this month.

Revelation 13:18
To bypass aka remove these verses the simple process is to say:
1 We special so we will be Raptured & won't have to worry about the Mark?
2 Numerous other junk theories whatever our itching ears like this month.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the Words of the Book of this Prophecy,
God shall take away his part OUT of the Book of Life,
and out of the Holy City,
and from the things which are Written in this Book.

Is everybody's Name written in the Book of Life?
To have your Name Written in the Book of Life & then have it removed?

 

[Eugene]

.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Kidron]

That puts salvation into their hands - into how 'well' they believe or 'trust'. .

-
No, thats not correct theology.
To begin with, Salvation is not in your hands, ONCE it has been GIVEN TO YOU AS A FREE GIFT.
Then it becomes a DONE DEAL.
A FINISHED situation.
If it was in your hands, there would be no need for Christ on a Cross.
2nd, Salvation is all of God, none of you, and its kept by God on your behalf.
He keeps it, not you.
"GOD that began SALVATION in you, will be faithful to complete it". ...Philippians 1:6
THAT IS NOT YOU. !
Finally,
The apostle is not preaching in Hebrews 4-6-and 10 to born again believers.
One you understand this, once you get the revelation..... you'll no longer be tricked and fooled by the devil regarding those chapters.
But till then, you'll keep believing what you believe, as per His deception.

 

[markathome]

The apostle is not preaching in Hebrews 4-6-and 10 to born again believers.

To be Born Again is to be Part of a Family, like those at the foot of the cross, a "Type".

BornAgain:Saved? 100%
OSAS:Saved? Less then 100%?
OSNAS:Saved? Less then 100%?
NS::Not Saved? 0%

Is it not possible that the confusion over the BornAgain/OSAS/OSNAS/NS concepts is that all the verses are also talking are about the past, the present, & future?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"All of physical bodies will die. That has nothing to do with eternal life. Even unbelievers will exist for ever and ever, but it's not called "life", it's called the second death, which is being separated from God in the lake of fire."

Do you not believe Jesus truly, completely, died?

See what I said above. That should have cleared up any questions or concerns.

Or do you only believe His physical body died?

I believe the Bible uses the word "death" in several different ways. Are you familiar with more than 2 or not?

The redemption of our souls only was accomplished because Christ died - completely cut off from life.

Yes.

Since Christ who had eternal life was cut off from that life, then it should help you understand what eternal life is - and how sin can seperate you from it.

Nope. His spiritual death is NOT at all related to humans. I don't know why anyone would think that.

He died spiritually so that we don't have to. And He did say that those who receive eternal life will never perish. Jn 10:28

So, in fact, anyone who has been given eternal life by Jesus CANNOT perish. He said so.

It should remind us not to think less than we should of Gods grace toward us.

It seems to me that the view that one can lose salvation doesn't appreciate God's grace.

If salvation could be lost because of any kind of behavior, then either Christ didn't die for that specific behavior (which the Bible says He died for all sins of all people) or God "runs out of" grace because of certain behaviors.

However, Paul speaks of God's grace being "glorious" in Eph 1:6 - to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

iow, we CANNOT sin enough to use up His grace. Once He saves, seals, justifies, forgives us, it is permanent. Because He said so.

 

[eddif]

How is force spelled ?

Agape love

Rednecks spells funny
eddif

 

[Nathan]

I said this:
"All of physical bodies will die. That has nothing to do with eternal life. Even unbelievers will exist for ever and ever, but it's not called "life", it's called the second death, which is being separated from God in the lake of fire."

See what I said above. That should have cleared up any questions or concerns.


I believe the Bible uses the word "death" in several different ways. Are you familiar with more than 2 or not?


Yes.


Nope. His spiritual death is NOT at all related to humans. I don't know why anyone would think that.

He died spiritually so that we don't have to. And He did say that those who receive eternal life will never perish. Jn 10:28

So, in fact, anyone who has been given eternal life by Jesus CANNOT perish. He said so.


It seems to me that the view that one can lose salvation doesn't appreciate God's grace.

If salvation could be lost because of any kind of behavior, then either Christ didn't die for that specific behavior (which the Bible says He died for all sins of all people) or God "runs out of" grace because of certain behaviors.

However, Paul speaks of God's grace being "glorious" in Eph 1:6 - to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

iow, we CANNOT sin enough to use up His grace. Once He saves, seals, justifies, forgives us, it is permanent. Because He said so.

I looked and could not see from your post the answer to my question. If you wouldn't mind answering straight out that would be great.

Do you believe Jesus completely died and was separated from eternal life, or do you think it was just His physical/flesh body that died?

 

[Eugene]

Do you believe Jesus completely died and was separated from eternal life, or do you think it was just His physical/flesh body that died?

Nathan, you ask a question above I would like to attempt to address.
Before Jesus died, was eternal life given as the gift of God to any? Please show me scripture if it was.

I even see after Jesus’ death that He did not ascend into heaven, but descended into the lower parts of the earth (Eph 4:9) to preach to those kept there (1 Pet 3:18-19). When Jesus was facing the cross and the one thief was promised to be in paradise with Jesus that day, where was paradise until Jesus died?

The closest scripture I know of hinting at something better for those believers before Jesus paid the price for their sin is in Dan 12:2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Where is paradise today as the result of Jesus’ sacrifice? 2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise.
So based on the following scripture I submit to you that eternal life was not available to any without shed blood as payment for sin. Heb 9:22 . . . without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

[eddif]

I Corinthians15:51 KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

If we answer the questions of the last several posts, there will be several books written about Jesus and his work.

Redneck
eddif

 

[FreeGrace]

I looked and could not see from your post the answer to my question. If you wouldn't mind answering straight out that would be great.

Do you believe Jesus completely died and was separated from eternal life, or do you think it was just His physical/flesh body that died?

He died both physically and spiritually on the cross.

Now, what's your point?

 

[Nathan]

Nathan, you ask a question above I would like to attempt to address.
Before Jesus died, was eternal life given as the gift of God to any? Please show me scripture if it was.

I even see after Jesus’ death that He did not ascend into heaven, but descended into the lower parts of the earth (Eph 4:9) to preach to those kept there (1 Pet 3:18-19). When Jesus was facing the cross and the one thief was promised to be in paradise with Jesus that day, where was paradise until Jesus died?

The closest scripture I know of hinting at something better for those believers before Jesus paid the price for their sin is in Dan 12:2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Where is paradise today as the result of Jesus’ sacrifice? 2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise.
So based on the following scripture I submit to you that eternal life was not available to any without shed blood as payment for sin. Heb 9:22 . . . without shedding of blood is no remission.

Jesus was fully God. He wasn't given eternal life, He is life - He is eternal.

John 8:58 (ESV)
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

Jesus was not made, He was manifested to us in a human body.

Do you believe that Jesus is a created being?

 

[Nathan]

He died both physically and spiritually on the cross.

Now, what's your point?

There are two lessons to be learned.

Eternal life does not mean you cannot perish.

Only God has eternal life, sin seperates us from that, God has to give life - we cannot posses it.

This is precisely why we must continue in Christ for our life. While we are in Him, we have eternal life. Separated from Him by sin, we have no life - regardless if we had it before - just like Christ had it and was separated from it.

Only God is eternal.

 

[FreeGrace]

There are two lessons to be learned.

Eternal life does not mean you cannot perish.

Jesus' statement in John 10:28 directly disagrees with your statement.

Only God has eternal life, sin seperates us from that, God has to give life - we cannot posses it.

This statement also directly disagrees with Jesus' statement in John 5:24 where Jesus said that those who believe HAVE eternal life.

 

[gr8grace3]

Wow, what an interesting way to look at that.

It really is not. FreeGrace has been pushing this TRUTH on this forum (thank God) for a few years now.

Eugene, dirt farmer, Kidron..........have said the same thing.....just different words.

We are saved forever the moment we believe ,Acts 16:31...........our rank and reign(inheritance) in the eternal state is determined by our works(deeds).

ALL believers are going to ENTER the eternal state. Not all believers will INHERIT the kingdom.

 

[gr8grace3]

Do you not believe Jesus truly, completely, died? Or do you only believe His physical body died?

The redemption of our souls only was accomplished because Christ died - completely cut off from life.

Since Christ who had eternal life was cut off from that life, then it should help you understand what eternal life is - and how sin can seperate you from it.

It should remind us not to think less than we should of Gods grace toward us.

Christ was NOT cut off from eternal life. He is God. Do you believe God died?

His(Jesus) humanity died, both spiritually (which was WAY worse than anything physical)and physically.

Christ is deity...............he never lost eternal life.

Jesus, in His humanity died. The deity of Christ cannot die. Eternal life is Him..........What we get the moment we believe.

 

[Cygnus]

our rank and reign(inheritance) in the eternal state is determined by our works(deeds).

ALL believers are going to ENTER the eternal state. Not all believers will INHERIT the kingdom.

Do you have a referece chapter and verse for the above statements?

 

[Nathan]

Jesus' statement in John 10:28 directly disagrees with your statement.


This statement also directly disagrees with Jesus' statement in John 5:24 where Jesus said that those who believe HAVE eternal life.

No, Jesus statement does not disagree with mine, it actually states it clearly. God is the only eternal God, only He has eternal life - He gives it to us and we receive it from Him. If we do not receive it from Him, we will perish.

The lie of satan from the beginning was that man could be like God and not die.

 

[Nathan]

Christ was NOT cut off from eternal life. He is God. Do you believe God died?

His(Jesus) humanity died, both spiritually (which was WAY worse than anything physical)and physically.

Christ is deity...............he never lost eternal life.

Jesus, in His humanity died. The deity of Christ cannot die. Eternal life is Him..........What we get the moment we believe.

Christ was cut off. If He did not die - completely - then we are not redeemed completely. We know we are, because we know He did.

When Jesus took on the sin of the world, it separated Him from God the Father. ONLY God the Father is eternal and has eternal life. When Jesus took the sin on Himself, He was cut off from God - that is why He cried out that God had forsaken Him.

To answer your question, God did not die - Jesus the Christ did. He was fully God, but He was not God the Father. God the Father can not dwell where sin is - so He had to separate Himself from Jesus when sin was placed on Him.

God the Father gave Jesus life again - bringing His soul back from Sheol, and not letting His body see corruption.

Psa 16:10
For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol,
or let your holy one see corruption.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Jesus' statement in John 10:28 directly disagrees with your statement.

This statement also directly disagrees with Jesus' statement in John 5:24 where Jesus said that those who believe HAVE eternal life."

No, Jesus statement does not disagree with mine, it actually states it clearly.

Then there is agreement that no recipient of eternal life can perish? Good. Because that's what Jesus said.

God is the only eternal God, only He has eternal life - He gives it to us and we receive it from Him. If we do not receive it from Him, we will perish.

And Jesus SAID eternal life is possessed WHEN one believes. Not "continually receives" it as long as one believes. He never said that.

The lie of satan from the beginning was that man could be like God and not die.

What does eternal life mean? I mean, the eternal life that Jesus gives.