THE UNFORGIVEN SIN

[Nathan]

What does eternal life mean? I mean, the eternal life that Jesus gives.

Eternal life means having the life that is eternal. Since only God is eternal, that means having God's life. Since God cannot 'cut' off a chunk of His life and give it away, it means we must abide in Him to receive it.

The lie of satan from the beginning was that man could be like God and have eternal life like God has it.

Gen 3:4
But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die."

 

[Cygnus]

Eternal life means having the life that is eternal. Since only God is eternal, that means having God's life. Since God cannot 'cut' off a chunk of His life and give it away, it means we must abide in Him to receive it.

If a christian for this reason or that decides they no longer want to "abide" ....then it is happenstance that stole their election.

 

[Nathan]

If a christian for this reason or that decides they no longer want to "abide" ....then it is happenstance that stole their election.

No its not. Was it happenstance that you wrote the post just now? Or did you choose to do it? Did someone make you do it, steal the control you have over your fingers to type and make a post?

We cannot blame anyone or anything for our own choices.

 

[reba]

eternal is like a circle do we have eternal life.. life with out beginning or end.

 

[Cygnus]

No its not. Was it happenstance that you wrote the post just now? Or did you choose to do it? Did someone make you do it, steal the control you have over your fingers to type and make a post?

We cannot blame anyone or anything for our own choices.

Did someone MAKE you? For the most part I would say no. BUT....BUT....BUT...a christian can face enough "happenstance" then base a decision to walk away from Christ based upon the happenstance of life.
For example if a christian meets a slick atheist who has the ability to cast or create doubt about the existence of God and the need for a savior (happenstance)...and as a christian you accept what they say then according to you, they lose their salvation for rejecting God after being saved. Now, perhaps YU have enough faith to tell the atheist to goatee a hike, but, there are instances where a newer christian might not. In this instance the atheist or what ever means has come in and stolen that christian from Christ with their deception.

 

[Cygnus]

eternal is like a circle do we have eternal life.. life with out beginning or end.

Human life has a beginning. Eternity only goes forward.

 

[markathome]

In this instance the atheist or what ever means has come in and stolen that christian from Christ with their deception.

Luke 8:11–13
1 Timothy 4:1
Hebrews 3:12–14

 

[Cygnus]

Luke 8:11–13

Lest they should believe and become saved....they were never saved in this instance.

1 Timothy 4:1

No mention of a loss of salvation. Just giving heed.

Hebrews 3:12–14

We should exhort each of us daily so we don't develop an evil heart of unbelief, which can cause a departing from the living God. But does this departing refer to a loss of fellowship or salvation?

 

[Nathan]

Did someone MAKE you? For the most part I would say no. BUT....BUT....BUT...a christian can face enough "happenstance" then base a decision to walk away from Christ based upon the happenstance of life.
For example if a christian meets a slick atheist who has the ability to cast or create doubt about the existence of God and the need for a savior (happenstance)...and as a christian you accept what they say then according to you, they lose their salvation for rejecting God after being saved. Now, perhaps YU have enough faith to tell the atheist to goatee a hike, but, there are instances where a newer christian might not. In this instance the atheist or what ever means has come in and stolen that christian from Christ with their deception.

No, the atheist did not make the person believe. Did someone make you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God? Before God sets us free in Christ we are slaves of sin and only can follow that which is sin. Once set free in Christ, we are FREE. We have the choice, no one makes us do anything.

So if temptation comes along, and you decide to follow it, it is YOUR choice for following it. No one makes you do it. Did someone force you to eat or drink today? Its your choice what you take in to your body, and its your choice what you take into your mind.

When a person rejects Christ they know they are, just as the same way when a person believes in Christ they know they are. No one forces you to believe that Jesus is the Christ, and no one forces you to deny that He is the Christ - the one who set you free from sin.

The lie of satan is that Jesus has not set you free from sin and you can have sin and Christ.

1Co 10:21
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

 

[markathome]

Lest they should believe and become saved....they were never saved in this instance.

Now the parable is this:
The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

They Believe for a while but when temptation comes they fall away.
The are Believers for a while but when temptation comes they fall away aka Apostasy.

 

[Cygnus]

No, the atheist did not make the person believe. Did someone make you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God? Before God sets us free in Christ we are slaves of sin and only can follow that which is sin. Once set free in Christ, we are FREE. We have the choice, no one makes us do anything.

So if temptation comes along, and you decide to follow it, it is YOUR choice for following it. No one makes you do it. Did someone force you to eat or drink today? Its your choice what you take in to your body, and its your choice what you take into your mind.

When a person rejects Christ they know they are, just as the same way when a person believes in Christ they know they are. No one forces you to believe that Jesus is the Christ, and no one forces you to deny that He is the Christ - the one who set you free from sin.

The lie of satan is that Jesus has not set you free from sin and you can have sin and Christ.

1Co 10:21
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

Did someone force you to choose against Christ? Of course not. What that person does is collect all they know based upon the input from life...and from that information you make a decision. If that information is false then we make our decision based upon false inputs and then willl choose wrong. Happenstance of life may deliver a christian a lot of false information against God.

 

[Eugene]

eternal is like a circle do we have eternal life.. life with out beginning or end.

reba, my understanding is that the word “Eternal” designates God’s life without beginning or end.

The very same word in Greek is everlasting in that we are given God’s own life “eternal” from the moment we believe “Everlasting,” or from that moment on.

Jn 3:16 everlasting G166 life. G2222
Act 13:48 eternal G166 life G2222
Rom 6:23 eternal G166 life G2222
1Jn 5:11 eternal G166 life G2222

The KJV translates Strong's G166 in the following manner: eternal (42x), everlasting (25x), the world began (with G5550) (2x), since the world began (with G5550) (1x), for ever (1x).

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2. without beginning

3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

 

[Cygnus]

Now the parable is this:
The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

They Believe for a while but when temptation comes they fall away.
The are Believers for a while but when temptation comes they fall away aka Apostasy.

I was responding to the original verse presented that was used to show a person could lose their salvation when that verse told us they were not yet believers. You seemed to step it up a notch.
In your verse their belief has no root. (I closed it red above). Their belief was only superficial. Like many in the church today they profess a belief....but really don't have one.

Let me ask you this, in a time of temptation...have you ever fallen away by choosing sin over the Lords way? This is yet another reason I say if you can lose your salvation you already have. We have all given into temptation and sinned....fell away.

 

[markathome]

In your verse their belief has no root. (I closed it red above). Their belief was only superficial. Like many in the church today they profess a belief....but really don't have one.

The root is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being Born Again into the Family of God.
The conclusion of the parable Jesus explained those that are Family.
Luke 8:21 My mother and my brethren are these which Hear the Word of God, and Do IT!

Let me ask you this, in a time of temptation...have you ever fallen away by choosing sin over the Lords way? This is yet another reason I say if you can lose your salvation you already have. We have all given into temptation and sinned....fell away.

I'm ~50 so Life has been like a Roller Coaster! But never to the point of Apostasy,
temptation is around us everyday, we are probably sinning stuff we don't even know about ,
but temptation can also be a much more serious issue, to fall away, become faithless and/or to Worship Nero.

God Bless

 

[Cygnus]

The root is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being Born Again into the Family of God.
The conclusion of the parable Jesus explained those that are Family.
Luke 8:21 My mother and my brethren are these which Hear the Word of God, and Do IT!

Considering they had no root as the verse mentions....then you would agree they were not ever saved. That is as you put it..."he root is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being Born Again into the Family of God."

I'm ~50 so Life has been like a Roller Coaster! But never to the point of Apostasy,
temptation is around us everyday, we are probably sinning stuff we don't even know about ,
but temptation can also be a much more serious issue, to fall away, become faithless and/or to Worship Nero.

The OSNAS sect seems to draw a line....Never explaining just where that line is...and often disagreeing as to where that line is. The interesting thing is, while the OSNAS sect claim they're biblical...the Bible never presents a line.

 

[markathome]

Considering they had no root as the verse mentions....
then you would agree they were not ever saved.
That is as you put it..."he root is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being Born Again into the Family of God."

They would be saved if they died before they committed the Apostasy.
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

The OSNAS sect seems to draw a line....Never explaining just where that line is...and often disagreeing as to where that line is. The interesting thing is, while the OSNAS sect claim they're biblical...the Bible never presents a line.

The Red Line is there in B/W starting from the Parables to the actual Mark. The Mark is the proof!

 

[Cygnus]

They would be saved if they died before they committed the Apostasy.

Really?
But if they re-repented...before they died, they're saved again?

 

[Nathan]

The OSNAS sect seems to draw a line....Never explaining just where that line is...and often disagreeing as to where that line is. The interesting thing is, while the OSNAS sect claim they're biblical...the Bible never presents a line.

The line is faith in Christ. It absolutely does not become any clearer than the following verse.

1Jo 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

 

[markathome]

Really?
But if they re-repented...before they died, they're saved again?

John Doe was born in Yacksville Virginia and at the age of 10 while attending a Vacation Bible School he hears the Word but doesn't believe it because he is an Atheist like all of his friends.
*Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

John Doe at the age of 18 while attending his Dad's Funeral hears the Gospel again and believes with joy but then he is drafted into the service. At the age of 23 Joe gets stationed over seas & he converts to Islam because of his new Muslim Wife.
*They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Matthew 18:21-22
John Doe at the age of 55 while attending his Wife's Funeral hears the Gospel again and believes, He is Baptized with Water & the Holy Spirit. From this point forward Joe has a problem if he repeats his past mistakes per Hebrews 6:4 <-

If poor Joe died while in the service before he committed the Apostasy would he not be saved?
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

After the Apostasy
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

 

[Cygnus]

John Doe was born in Yacksville Virginia and at the age of 10 while attending a Vacation Bible School he hears the Word but doesn't believe it because he is an Atheist like all of his friends.
*Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Never saved. Got it.

John Doe at the age of 18 while attending his Dad's Funeral hears the Gospel again and believes with joy but then he is drafted into the service. At the age of 23 Joe gets stationed over seas & he converts to Islam because of his new Muslim Wife.
*They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Once again never saved....no root = no salvation.

Matthew 18:21-22
John Doe at the age of 55 while attending his Wife's Funeral hears the Gospel again and believes, He is Baptized with Water & the Holy Spirit. From this point forward Joe has a problem if he repeats his past mistakes per Hebrews 6:4 <-

Finally saved!!! Your interpretation says If Joe was saved at 23 as per your post above.....then lost it. He's done.

If poor Joe died while in the service before he committed the Apostasy would he not be saved?
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Can you tell us what the Apostasy for this person would be?

After the Apostasy
Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

I think the verse above is talking about people who claim to be Christ followers...but followed a gospel of works to get saved in the first place... or once saved follow a gospel that calls for us to impress God to stay saved.

Just for the record, the verse you posted and the portion you bolded...I never knew you...indicates they were never ever saved, or, God would have known them.