Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Butch5
Member
Thats funny? we have millions of believers that operate daily in these things! If you have scripture that makes the term "believers" mean "apostles" maybe you have a bible that none of us have?ed!
No, it's the same Bible, but you've got to read it in context.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
(Mar 16:15-1 KJV)16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Marks says the Lord went with "them."
Last edited by a moderator:
M
Mitspa
Guest
SO? according to your logic verse 16 should read he that is an "apostle" and is
baptized will be saved and he that is not an "apostle" shall be damned?
Do you have any idea of how ignorant that sounds?
please! if you have a "real biblical point" for me to respond to ? i will be glad to have a dialog with you! but you embarass yourself with such points as you are trying to make
M
Mitspa
Guest
do you have a say in my ability to post on this forum?
M
Mitspa
Guest
1Co 4:3
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1Co 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1Co 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Not sure how to answer this . I am guessing your referring to the mod statis.. You have done nothing in violation of the ToS. You have a right to your opiniion just as much as i do.
Maybe even more cause i curb many of my thoughts because i am a mod....I would not use the mod thing to stop you from having your say... My views are not necessarily the views of CFnet.
Butch5
Member
That's not what I said at all. I said the passage is speaking of the apostles ministry and showed that in context.
Do you have any idea of how ignorant that sounds?
please! if you have a "real biblical point" for me to respond to ? i will be glad to have a dialog with you! but you embarass yourself with such points as you are trying to make
Ignorant? How is reading Scripture in context, ignorant? It would seem to me just the opposite. You're the one who posted the passage in an attempt to uspport your claim of power. This passage says nothing about anyone having power. It is about gifts of the Spirit. In particular it is about the gifts of the Spirit being bestowed on those who believed the preaching of the apostles. This can be seen in the fact that Mark says the Lord went with them "confirming the word" with sign and wonders. The Lord was confirming the truth of the apostles preaching with miraculous signs. That's the passage in context.
M
Mitspa
Guest
So the word" believer" in two verses above means "believer" but just a few verses later the word "believer" really dont mean "believer" anymore? it now means "apostle"?
.So because you have no power? i must now change the Word of God? to mean whatever you need it to mean? and you call that context?:toofunny
2Ti 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Not sure how to answer this . I am guessing your referring to the mod statis.. You have done nothing in violation of the ToS. You have a right to your opiniion just as much as i do.
I would not use the mod thing to stop you from having your say... My views are not necessarily the views of CFnet.
Well maybe you might like me? if you give me half a chance? and i am disgusted with many who claim to be "word of faith" folks. i aint asking for any money
This argument does not work. This would mean that such ministry, and it's equivalent in Matt 28:19-20, ended with the Apostles--that there is no longer any who are to be going out and engaging people and making disciples. In fact, doing so would be to go against Scripture.
It would be better to argue that Mark 16:9-20 is thought by many to be a later addition to the gospel. In that case it would be speaking of those things the Apostles did in the book of Acts, so it would not be entirely untrue. But whether a later addition or truly written by Mark, it applies to all believers.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Well maybe you might like me? if you give me half a chance? and i am disgusted with many who claim to be "word of faith" folks. i aint asking for any money
Did i read correctly your a fishin pastor?
M
Mitspa
Guest
"If any man be in Christ? he is a New Creation" 2cor5:17
The source of strength and power given to the "believer" is found when one knows who they are in "truth".
We are sons of God and joint-heirs with Christ. This gives us perfect legal grounds for perfect fellowship with the Father. This fellowship is based upon the "fact" that we are now the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
There is now no condemnation for us. We stand complete in Christ and act according to His authority and by His Grace.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
The source of strength and power given to the "believer" is found when one knows who they are in "truth".
We are sons of God and joint-heirs with Christ. This gives us perfect legal grounds for perfect fellowship with the Father. This fellowship is based upon the "fact" that we are now the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
There is now no condemnation for us. We stand complete in Christ and act according to His authority and by His Grace.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
jasoncran
Member
i have believing freinds in washington state. that would be something they would know about. one of them is from there but now lives in michigan.
Thank you! sounds like good and honest advice. It seems many seem to give advice here as a chance to speak down to others?
I really have known almost nothing of "Calvinist" doctrine? i have been looking into it, and i find they hold many of the same truths that The Lord-HS has taught me. very interesting the conflict here between the "legalist"Vs "calvinist"
Thank you again for your sound words.
I'm not a legalist or a Calvinist nor do I even attend any particular Church other than the assembling with my friends as we study scripture by the leading of the Holy Spirit teaching us all things we need to know. I'm just a simplistic Spiritually renewed child of God filled with His power and authority given to me by His grace for I can not do anything of myself, but can do all things by the Holy Spirit that works in me and through me for the timing and purpose of the ministry of Christ. I've never raised the dead for why would I if they died in Christ and are now asleep until His glorious return. I have through the power of God in me healed the sick and have cast out demons, but on mine own power there is none, but only the power and authority that is God can I do all things I am called to do.
Jesus said greater works will we do and this means that in Christ time here on earth he was, but one, and now there are many that are one in Christ that have taken up their cross to follow in the footsteps of Jesus as they have received Gods power and authority to continue in that which Jesus began and left for us to continue in. I can not save anyone, heal anyone, cast out demons, but it is Christ in me that uses me as His vessel that can do all things to testify of His mercy and grace.
Butch5
Member
Not at all. Just because this passage is speaking of the apostles ministry in no way negates the Great Commission. It's clear from the context that it's speaking of the apostles. He said to "them".
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.(Mar 16:15-1 KJV)
It's clear that this is speaking "Of" the apostles. This has no bearing on the apostles sending others out to preach the word also.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.(Mar 16:15-1 KJV)
It's clear that this is speaking "Of" the apostles. This has no bearing on the apostles sending others out to preach the word also.
Butch5
Member
So the word" believer" in two verses above means "believer" but just a few verses later the word "believer" really dont mean "believer" anymore? it now means "apostle"?
So because you have no power? i must now change the Word of God? to mean whatever you need it to mean? and you call that context?:toofunny
2Ti 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
I'm assuming you understand context. I haven't changed anything, I simply posted the passge. It clealry says the Lord went with "Them". What part of "them" means all believers?
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. {at meat: or, together}
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.(Mar 16:14-1 KJV)
It's abundantly clear that the "them" is the eleven. To apply the text otherwise is to take it out of context.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.(Mar 16:14-1 KJV)
It's abundantly clear that the "them" is the eleven. To apply the text otherwise is to take it out of context.
This is the Great Commission. This is Mark's version of the same. This is for all believers.
Just where in Scripture do you see the Apostles sending out others to preach? Do you think the Great Commission is for all believers?
Butch5
Member
Question: In this passage Marks says 3 times "them" meaning the eleven. On what basis then can you apply it universally?