Bible Study The Work of God: Terminal Agitation Ending in Silence

[JLB]

We wear our Spiritual battle gear for very specific purposes, very specifically needed, because of "our" very REAL spiritual adversity and our likewise very REAL spiritual adversaries.

Post the scripture that shows this, and you will see that the spiritual host of wickedness live in heavenly places, and not in our flesh.

in heavenly places, not within our flesh and mind.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—
Ephesians 6:12-18

...taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.


The shield protects from fiery darts from without, not from within.



JLB

 

[JLB]

You can make all the claims you please about how "your" indwelling sin/evil present doesn't do what they do or how these workings are NOT OF THE DEVIL.

I won't be buying any such stories anytime soon.

I believe Paul has set the marks of TRUTH on these matters, and your positions are missing them completely. You don't even realize WHY you resist.

The sin is in our flesh, not Satan in our flesh.

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20


JLB

 

[smaller]

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

JLB

IF you saw Paul how Paul saw himself, you'd also see the facts of John above:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Scripture presents TWO parties above. Not just Paul.

There is and remains adverse judgment to be had in the picture, FOR BELIEVERS, because these are not just matters of 'us only' as individuals.

Look at the facts. There is Paul. And there is NO MORE I, EVIL PRESENT, A MESSENGER OF SATAN, SIN-OF THE DEVIL in Paul's own flesh.

That is what Paul presented. Romans 7:17 & 20-21, 2 Cor. 12:7, 1 John 3:8

 

[smaller]

Post the scripture that shows this, and you will see that the spiritual host of wickedness live in heavenly places, and not in our flesh. in heavenly places, not within our flesh and mind.

I have no idea where you think you're going to go with the above, but this is not the thread for it.

I can instantly point to Satan speaking from Peter or entering Judas or any other number of THOUSANDS of instances of demonic spirits operating IN MAN.

So if you think these adverse spiritual entities are all in outer space somewhere or IN HEAVEN WITH GOD, you are sadly mistaken. They are all here on earth, IN mankind.

I marked you as a bit of a weirdo already when you claim that God is the Father of Satan and Jesus' evil twin brother. That's just weird JLB. You got off the Bible pages somewhere back in time and never came back. That's also why you're bucking and screaming as well, against the BIBLE DISCLOSURES in this thread.

Moth to FLAME.

 

[JLB]

I can instantly point to Satan speaking from Peter or entering Judas or any other number of THOUSANDS of instances of demonic spirits operating IN MAN.

Satan entered Judas, which means he wasn't already present in Judas' flesh.

The evil present with Paul was sin, not Satan.

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:20-23



JLB

 

[JLB]

I marked you as a bit of a weirdo already when you claim that God is the Father of Satan and Jesus' evil twin brother.

You are a liar, as I have never taught that Satan was Jesus evil twin brother.

More twisting and deception from you.


Jesus created all things, including angels.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16


God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and all spirits.


Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9



JLB

 

[smaller]

You are a liar, as I have never taught that Satan was Jesus evil twin brother.

You certainly TEACH that God IS THE FATHER OF SATAN.

Do your own math on the matter.

More twisting and deception from you.

The stage is wide open for you to put your foot in your own mouth. Have at it.

Jesus created all things, including angels.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16

God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and all spirits. Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9
JLB

Soooo, Jesus is the Father of Satan, not Satan's brother? Is this your modified claim?

Just so we are clear, God "created" spirits of disobedience and will precisely destroy them in the LoF upon completion of uses. The spirits of disobedience are NOT GODS CHILDREN, but created temporal entities made to be used and destroyed. For the record the "flesh" is in the same "created to be destroyed" category, though not the same fashion of destruction.

Genesis 6:7
And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Here are those fowls of the air, in the language of God:

Mark 4:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Here is the prince of the power of the AIR:

Eph. 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

This is what happens to THAT SPIRIT OF DISOBEDIENCE:

Isaiah 27:
27 In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Are we getting the picture yet?

 

[JLB]

You certainly TEACH that God IS THE FATHER OF SATAN.

I teach that God created Lucifer.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him, and he was cast out.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:14-15

...and you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; Ezekiel 28:16


Lucifer became Satan the enemy.


That is what I teach.


If you believe Lucifer was created by some one else, other than God, then please post the scripture for this belief.

If you believe that someone else other than God, is the father of spirits, then please post the scripture for your belief.







JLB

 

[smaller]

I teach that God created Lucifer.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him, and he was cast out.

Is God The Father of Lucifer, Satan? Neither? Both?

By all means CLARIFY.

 

[JLB]

Just so we are clear, God "created" spirits of disobedience

Please post the scripture for this claim.


I personally believe that Jesus created all things, as God the Son.


8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.
Hebrews 1:8-12

• I also believe Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God the Father.

• I also believe that angels are sons of God, that were created.

This makes God the Father, the Father of spirits; ie angels.


Disobedient angels were cast down to hell, when they were disobedient during the days of Noah.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5


JLB

 

[JLB]

Is God The Father of Lucifer,

God is the creator of Lucifer, and all angels.

God is the Father of spirits, whether human, or angel, or Jesus His only begotten Son.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
Ezekiel 28:14-15


Do you believe God created Lucifer, or do you believe someone else created Lucifer.

Do you believe God created Adam?

Do you believe Adam is God's son?

38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38


Please post scripture for your belief.



JLB

 

[Chopper]

We all have gone through and are going through such things, Chopper.


The discussion is not about whether Satan is evil and torments people.


We have authority over him, and by the power of the name of Jesus, and the blood of Jesus and the word of God, and the holy Spirit, we cast the devil out and counsel people to give "no place" to the devil.


The point of contention is that Satan dwells in believer's who are filled with the Spirit, and having learned to live obedient, consecrated lives and to obey our Lord and Savior, as we are led by His Spirit.


Smaller is teaching that Spirit filled Christians can't help but to sin, because Satan dwells in our flesh and in our mind, and does the sinning.


In order to have victory over the devil, we must learn to keep ourselves from sin, and practicing the works of the flesh.

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

When we work with such people, we always counsel them to cut off "ungodly" relationships with immoral people, and turn away from the occult.

Then when they have agreed to do that and obeyed, we sever "ungodly" soul ties with those ungodly relationships, by having them confess it as sin, and repent.



Ask the woman whom your working with about ungodly relationships and the occult practices she is involved in.
Ask her about occult or demonic objects she has in her room or home.
These things must be repented of, and discarded or destroyed for their to be relief from the torments.


Would you tell her that she can be free from devils and torments, and be clean and white as snow, to live in peace and victory, but still have Satan dwelling in her flesh and in her mind?


Is that your version of victory?




JLB

JLB. I have been trying to explain how I believe, and somehow you don't understand. Let me put it to you this way. Before becoming a Christian, many folk dabbled in the occult. That opened doors for demon power to enter their lives. You have said correctly that the Holy Spirit indwell the Believer BUT, there are still at least one open door for demon activity IN the Believer. Until the person recognizes where the open door is, he/she will continue to have demon forces STEALING God's Word and causing them to sin just as if they were helpless to stop the demon from the sin.

I'm sure you don't know much about spiritual warfare because if you did, you'd be singing a different tune.

 

[Chopper]

Brilliant deductions Chopper.

We wear our Spiritual battle gear for very specific purposes, very specifically needed, because of "our" very REAL spiritual adversity and our likewise very REAL spiritual adversaries.

Every believer who resists this side of the ledgers of scripture is in denial and blindness themselves.

The entire fulcrum of the scriptures is about our time in this present warfare.

Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The REASON we do not love our lives is because the battle with our spiritual adversary transpires in our own flesh, our own minds.

IF we can't see that much we're essentially NO GOOD to anyone else.

In both JLB's case and ez's case, they perpetually seek to condemn fallen believers and even those who ARE believers. I've seen them both do it. That is actually a working of the spiritual adversary in their own flesh, trying to KILL, DESTROY and to CONDEMN.

Their adverse works are written all over them, resisting.

There are certain marks set for faith.

We do as Jesus did:

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

And, IF we are doing the above, there is only ONE DIRECTION remaining to observe matters of SIN, of spiritual blindness, of spiritual adversity and SIN/EVIL in this present world:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

When we WITNESS to the unsaved. When we COUNSEL those who have or are in the process of LOSING the battles, and we DON'T SEE the other party involved,

We ourselves are BLINDED by that same working and worker.

And that is just a SHAME ON US for missing the obvious.

Right on Brother smaller. I'm really upset over folk that come against what happens in the spiritual realm that they know nothing about. Example: A lady named Doris came to my Bible study. She said that she was born again and did have fruit to prove it. Unfortunately, she had opened a door to demon forces before she was saved, Her father was a warlock and mother was a witch. She came to me because I had a ministry of deliverance.

Several weeks went by, and I met with her with my Wife just to get her background. On the third night, I dismissed those who were not on my Team, and we confronted the demon that had a hold on her. All of a sudden her voice changed to a deep mans voice and it made fun of us. We confessed the Name of Jesus Christ as her Master and His Blood protected her from this thing. It took a while but she was delivered.

The point that I want to make is, Doris could not bring to her mind ANY Scripture that dealt with her freedom in Christ. Yep!! The devil stole every Word. When a demon speaks through a born again Believer, no one can tell me that Satan and his servant demons can't operate out of a believer. Somehow, it happens and we must warn Believers to shut any door that they think could be used for evil purposes.

There are two books that I recommend. They are, "Victory Over The Darkness" and "The Bondage Breaker" by Dr. Neil Anderson. His web site is....http://ficm.org/

 

[JLB]

Until the person recognizes where the open door is, he/she will continue to have demon forces STEALING God's Word and causing them to sin just as if they were helpless to stop the demon from the sin.

• I agree that if a believer has an open door, through disobedience, rebellion, and the like, then Satan has a legal right to oppress them.

• What I don't believe is that Satan dwell's in the flesh and in the mind of believer's, and is "doing" the sinning.

Dwell as in remain's continually, is the Greek word that Paul uses to describe how sin dwell's or is present continually in our flesh.

Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20


Sin, not Satan, dwell's [remains continually] in our mortal body and will remain there, until our body is resurrected and transformed, in which death will be swallowed up with life.


Satan may have a right to come and oppress us, if we break through the "hedge" as it were, or get off into rebellion, but when we repent, and are forgiven and "cleansed" of all unrighteousness, then then the door or access has been closed to Satan.


The goal is to mature into the image and likeness of Jesus where we are led by the Spirit and walk in the spirit, and learn how to "keep ourselves" so that the wicked one does not touch us.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18



Mark 4:15 certainly does not say that Satan dwells in our flesh and in our mind.

• 2 Corinthians 12:7 does not say Satan was "in" Paul's flesh.

• 2 Corinthians 12:7 does say a messenger of Satan was given to me to buffet me, not "dwell in my flesh".

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 2 Corinthians 12:7

Let me show you just how ridiculous this theory is.

The reason Paul gives for this messenger of Satan being given to him was: lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations.

So we are to conclude, based on Smaller's theory, that while Paul was persecuting the Church, and without Christ, Satan was not dwelling in his flesh, but after He became a Spirit filled believer, and was caught up to heaven, then Satan now has a right to enter paul and dwell in his flesh and in his mind, throughout the time he wrote the New Testament.


Brother, can you see the utter insanity of such a notion?


The messenger of Satan was given to him, and allowed to buffet Paul, because God allowed it for his good, that he would not get puffed up in pride.


Satan has a right to access and oppress believer's who violate or transgress God's law in disobedience.

Can you see the difference in these two completely different scenario's?


I will stop there and hope to get some feed back from you before I continue.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Right on Brother smaller. I'm really upset over folk that come against what happens in the spiritual realm that they know nothing about.

I couldn't agree more, you have shown us that you do not understand this man's misguided theology.



JLB

 

[JLB]

When a demon speaks through a born again Believer, no one can tell me that Satan and his servant demons can't operate out of a believer.

They can if that person who once believed has gone and dabbled in witchcraft and the occult, which should be proof that our salvation can indeed be lost to a deceptive teaching of doctrine of demons.



JLB

 

[JLB]

There are two books that I recommend. They are, "Victory Over The Darkness" and "The Bondage Breaker" by Dr. Neil Anderson. His web site is....http://ficm.org/

Frank Hammond - Pigs in the parlor.

Derek Prince - They shall expel demons

Lester Sumrall -

 

[smaller]

God is the Father of spirits, whether human, or angel, or Jesus His only begotten Son.

At some point you're going to figure out I enjoy watching you dance around evading questions.

Is God The Father of Lucifer? Satan? Both? Neither.

Let's bear down on where your mind wound up.

Do you believe God created Lucifer, or do you believe someone else created Lucifer.

I do NOT believe God is The Father of either Lucifer or Satan if that's what you're asking. NO! Never!

Do you believe God created Adam?

Adam was Gods son. Luke 3:38. As such Adam came from within God as a part of God, as Gods son.

Do you believe Adam is God's son?

As a part of Gods Own Spirit, yes. This does not extend to Adam's flesh or the sin of Adam which was of the devil. Adam was bound into dishonor, corruption and weakness in the flesh. 1 Cor. 15:42-46. Which was Gods Exact Plan for Adam.

Please post scripture for your belief.
JLB

Like I said, I appreciate your avoidance of answering direct questions. You know your beliefs of God being The Father of disobedient spirits or devils or Satan or Lucifer would be considered blatant heresy in mainstream Christianity.

 

[smaller]

Right on Brother smaller. I'm really upset over folk that come against what happens in the spiritual realm that they know nothing about. Example: A lady named Doris came to my Bible study. She said that she was born again and did have fruit to prove it. Unfortunately, she had opened a door to demon forces before she was saved, Her father was a warlock and mother was a witch. She came to me because I had a ministry of deliverance.

Several weeks went by, and I met with her with my Wife just to get her background. On the third night, I dismissed those who were not on my Team, and we confronted the demon that had a hold on her. All of a sudden her voice changed to a deep mans voice and it made fun of us. We confessed the Name of Jesus Christ as her Master and His Blood protected her from this thing. It took a while but she was delivered.

The point that I want to make is, Doris could not bring to her mind ANY Scripture that dealt with her freedom in Christ. Yep!! The devil stole every Word. When a demon speaks through a born again Believer, no one can tell me that Satan and his servant demons can't operate out of a believer. Somehow, it happens and we must warn Believers to shut any door that they think could be used for evil purposes.

There are two books that I recommend. They are, "Victory Over The Darkness" and "The Bondage Breaker" by Dr. Neil Anderson. His web site is....http://ficm.org/

Very interesting. Always. Yes, it is a real phenomena. But it is also a real phenomena for us to a lesser degree.

When we speak scriptural truth the whole world of devils technically "hears us" and are called to "resistance."

Believers are a THREAT to them. Particularly when we stop letting them pawn us in the flesh. That is their first alert call.

 

[JLB]

I do NOT believe God is The Father of either Lucifer

Angels are called sons of God.

Lucifer is an angel.

Adam was Gods son. Luke 3:38. As such Adam came from within God as a part of God, as Gods son.

Adam was created by God, and is called God's son.

Angels are created by God and are called sons of God.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36


“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:4-7



JLB