Things I know; things I don't know; things I know but a little.

[Scotth1960]

Dear friends, There are some things I know, things I don't know, and things

I know but a little.

I know the NT, and its teachings. (Of course, I am learning more from it

and hope to continue to grow in grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus

Christ, that I may know Him and obey Him better in days to come).

I know the writings of Peter E. Gillquist, of Billy Graham, of Larry

Christenson, of David Wilkerson, of Francis A. Schaeffer, of Jimmy

Swaggart, of Pat Roberston, of Robert H. Schuller, of Hal Lindsey, Tim

LaHaye, Jerry Falwell, John F. Walvoord, and so on. I know the Lutheran

Book of Concord.

I know the "Contra Errores Graecorum" by Thomas Aquinas, and on the

other hand I know "The Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit" by Saint Photios.

There are perhaps some other books and works I know but I think these

would include Frank Schaeffer, Alexander Schmemann, Anthony Coniaris,

Clark Carlton, and some other writers like Whelton. I can't remember

every book I have read. I know the "De Trinitate" by Augustine of Hippo.

I don't know Dante, the Summa Theologica of Thomas Aquinas, the works

of John Calvin, John Knox, Zwingli, or John Wesley, or the works of Francis

of Assisi. I don't know the works of Duns Scotus very well, except for his

work "God as First Principle".

I know just a little the works of Martin Luther, the Book of Confessions of

the Presbyterian Church.

I know quite well the Small Catechism of Martin Luther and the Book of

Concord of the Lutherans. I also know quite well Fr. Mastrantonis book

"Augsburg and Constantinople", which responds to the Lutheran writings.

I don't know very well the Confessions of Augustine, or the writings of

some of the Church Fathers.

I have read St. Basil and some of Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory of

Nazianzus and Vincent of Lerins. I don't know St. Jerome and St. Augustine

very well.

I also know the books of David Chilton, Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Gary DeMar,

Greg L. Bahnson, John W. Robbins, and other Reformed writings on

eschatology and politics.

What books do you know? How much have you read? Our basic book has

to be the NT, along with the OT as much as possible. The OT should not be

misunderstood, but has to be interpreted according to its NT meaning.

How do you understand the books you have read? How has your thinking

on the NT been influenced by the books you have read? Do you claim to

derive your theology from the Bible alone, or are you more honest and

confess that everyone read the Bible in terms of some theology, some

church tradition. Our theology should come from the Bible, but as the

Bible is silent on many topics, something more is needed to fill in the

gaps where the Bible is silent. The Bible doesn't interpret itself; it must

be interpreted according to somebody's tradition. The question is whether

that tradition is apostolic and was passed down from 2,000 years ago

from the 12 apostle and other disciples of Christ, or whether it is a recent

innovation in theology, after 1054 AD or after 1521 AD. God bless us all

to not misinterpret the NT. Where the writings of men disagree with the

meaning of the NT, they should be abandon. Where the writings of men

agree with the meaning of the NT and help us to understand and interpret

the NT correctly, they should be used, with caution. Only relying on the

Holy Spirit of God, Who proceeds from the Father, Who leads us into all

truth (cf. John 16:13). In Erie PA Scott Harrington

:waving

 

[Jake]

WHY do you insist on leading people away from the God's Word? We are commanded to lead people towards Him. :bigfrown

 

[Scotth1960]

WHY do you insist on leading people away from the God's Word? We are commanded to lead people towards Him. :bigfrown

Dear Rockie, So say you. How do you know what leads away from God's word?

Do you not know that the word of God must be interpreted, but that no prophecy

of Scripture is of any private interpretation (2 Peter 3). I am venturing to tell

people the truth: not all interpretations of the Scriptures are valid. There

are many traditions of men, and these all derive different, contradictory

things from the Scriptures. The Scriptures neither know how to deceive or

to mislead us. I was, by listing these various teachers, attempting to show

that people read the Bible in different ways. Christ is the way that the Bible

says leads back to God the Father. What have I said that you think leads people

away from Christ. Your accusation is just dropped there, and you don't give

a specific example where anything in my posts does not agree with the Bible.

If it agrees with the Bible, it agrees with Christ, and leads to Christ, as the Bible

is the word of God that leads to Christ. If you can show from reading all of

my posts that I have written anything that leads away from Christ, I will agree

with you and thank you for correcting me. Even as St. Paul corrected St. Peter,

and they remained brothers in Christ. God bless you for your sincerity, though.

I just don't know what you mean.

Where did I lead anyone away from God's Word, the Bible? Tell me what you

think that I did that doesn't agree with the Bible. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[Jake]

Where did I lead anyone away from God's Word, the Bible? Tell me what you

think that I did that doesn't agree with the Bible.

I meant your entire OP, Scott. Not just part of it, not just one sentence, the entire OP.

 

[Scotth1960]

I meant your entire OP, Scott. Not just part of it, not just one sentence, the entire OP.

Dear Rockie, Perhaps you would have to read all the authors I have read before you make a final answer regarding whether they lead away from God's Word in the Bible. What does reading non-biblical books have to do with leading away from Christ and the Bible. Christians write to comment on the Bible, and could not preach at all if the Bible didn't tell them to "Preach the word, in season, and out of season". So I do not understand your point. Perhaps you have read the Bible alone, without comment. Well, some man had to tell you what was the Bible? How do you recognize the Word of God and the Words of Christ? There is the KJV, RSV, ASV, NASB, ESV, NIV, NirV, AMP, MLB, TEV, CEV, HCSB, TLB, NLT, NEB, REB, JB, NJV, NAB, DOUAY-RHEIMS-CHALLONER, TYNDALE, WYCLIFFE, LUTHER, DARBY, YLT, MKJV, KJ21, NAV (TMB), OSB, NKJV, ONT, NCV, GW,
BECK, PHILLIPS, and so on. Which one of these best translates the Bible into English?
Could not a false Bible, like the NWT of JW's, lead people away from Jesus Christ?
How do any of these preachers lead away from Christ of the Bible. Of course, they contradict each other on some of the points of theology; an appeal to the "Bible alone" doesn't solve this problem of who is interpreting the Bible correctly, and who is misleading and not understanding the Bible (OT and NT) correctly. I think Jimmy Swaggart is wrong in some of his views. As is Robert H. Schuller. Even Billy Graham doesn't always get it right, nor does Augustine of Hippo. And I have been wrong. I was wrong to be so curious to attend a JW (Watchtower) service, out of curiosity. It was not supposed to be interesting, as the whole place was dark, and not full of light, and the thing was an oppressive atmosphere of demons. Deny Christ and the whole worship service is vain. In Erie PA Scott Harrington PS May God forgive me and cleanse me from all my sins. The same for all of you, May God have mercy on you all and forgive you.

 

[jasoncran]

lol. the easiest way to debunk the jw(nwt) is to compare to the greek and they have also the kingdom interlinear that is more suitable for them. and also the old jws(which i was around as a young jw) used the kjv for their purpose.

 

[Scotth1960]

lol. the easiest way to debunk the jw(nwt) is to compare to the greek and they have also the kingdom interlinear that is more suitable for them. and also the old jws(which i was around as a young jw) used the kjv for their purpose.

Dear Jasoncran, So you were once an JW? How did you come to believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ. I regret my trip to a JW service, but in a way, I learned something Christians need to know. There is a devil, and he hates Jesus Christ. He wants people to think Christ is just a man. The whole worship of Jehovah without Christ is a delusion. The Jehovah's W service mentioned Jehovah, but nothing of Christ, His Cross, His resurrection, salvation by grace. They seemed to be preaching salvation by works, Pelagianism. .... Christ said, "I and the Father are one", and He said, "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one cometh unto the Father (Jehovah) but by Me". I need to be reminded of that. I was not tempted by Arianism. I cannot really justify my trip to the JW service. My neighbor invited me, and I should have just inclined the invitation. Only by God's grace, can a person resist the errors of the Watchtower Society, or of the Mormons, which, in a way, are even worse errors than those of the JW's. Anyway, Arianism is still around, though most people have lost faith in the JW's for their many failed prophecies and their changing their theologies every 40 years or so. In Erie Scott

 

[jasoncran]

Dear Jasoncran, So you were once an JW? How did you come to believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ. I regret my trip to a JW service, but in a way, I learned something Christians need to know. There is a devil, and he hates Jesus Christ. He wants people to think Christ is just a man. The whole worship of Jehovah without Christ is a delusion. The Jehovah's W service mentioned Jehovah, but nothing of Christ, His Cross, His resurrection, salvation by grace. They seemed to be preaching salvation by works, Pelagianism. .... Christ said, "I and the Father are one", and He said, "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one cometh unto the Father (Jehovah) but by Me". I need to be reminded of that. I was not tempted by Arianism. I cannot really justify my trip to the JW service. My neighbor invited me, and I should have just inclined the invitation. Only by God's grace, can a person resist the errors of the Watchtower Society, or of the Mormons, which, in a way, are even worse errors than those of the JW's. Anyway, Arianism is still around, though most people have lost faith in the JW's for their many failed prophecies and their changing their theologies every 40 years or so. In Erie Scott

one concept

no man come to the son save he is drawn by the father.

part of the reason i believe in the calvinist idea of irrestable grace is that is what it felt like. the timing was right and i couldnt resist even if i wanted to.

 

[Jake]

Dear Rockie, Perhaps you would have to read all the authors I have read before you make a final answer regarding whether they lead away from God's Word in the Bible. What does reading non-biblical books have to do with leading away from Christ and the Bible. Christians write to comment on the Bible, and could not preach at all if the Bible didn't tell them to "Preach the word, in season, and out of season". So I do not understand your point. Perhaps you have read the Bible alone, without comment. Well, some man had to tell you what was the Bible? How do you recognize the Word of God and the Words of Christ? There is the KJV, RSV, ASV, NASB, ESV, NIV, NirV, AMP, MLB, TEV, CEV, HCSB, TLB, NLT, NEB, REB, JB, NJV, NAB, DOUAY-RHEIMS-CHALLONER, TYNDALE, WYCLIFFE, LUTHER, DARBY, YLT, MKJV, KJ21, NAV (TMB), OSB, NKJV, ONT, NCV, GW,
BECK, PHILLIPS, and so on. Which one of these best translates the Bible into English?
Could not a false Bible, like the NWT of JW's, lead people away from Jesus Christ?

To me, reading everyone else BUT the Word of God causes confusion, as you say, those people can teach truth but along with that they also teach lies. In order for a teacher to be a teacher, he must be called by God (Ephesians 4:11), we will know that person is called because the Spirit will lead us into all truth - not partial truth.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God.
12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, and he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Sam21]

I have a somewhat different perspective possibly then some christians. I did not know the bible at all and was not taught religion. At about 14 years of age I attended a small church service and at the end of the sermon the Pastor asked us to bow our heads and ask God what He wanted us to do. Being a young person I simply did as the Pastor instructed and to my complete amazement I was suddenly engulfed in intense love and could hear a voice speaking directly to my mind in very clear words. His first statement was, YOU MUST ACCEPT MY SON AS YOUR SAVIOR.
It took a while before I actually did accept Christ as Savior and during that time God talked to me for maybe an hour. It was years later when I begin to compare notes to other believers that I found that my experience was somewhat different.
Anyway, I was a firm believer in God before I ever read the bible because of my experience with God,even today the core of my faith is in the Person who came to me and talked to me and told me that I must accept His Son as my Savior.

 

[Scotth1960]

one concept

no man come to the son save his drawn by the father.

part of the reason i believe in the calvinist idea of irrestable grace is that is what it felt like. the timing was right and i couldnt resist even if i wanted to.

The important thing, ISTM, jasoncran, is to be a good "mere Christian", not a

mere

Calvinist. As a former Lutheran, I could not follow Calvinism. I was fully

persuaded, as I still am, that Calvinism is a doctrinal error. Later, I learned my

Lutheranism was a mistake, too. Right now, I am like an orphan, but I can look

ahead in hope, and find a safe harbor, I believe, in the Russian Orthodox Church.

In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[Jake]

I have a somewhat different perspective possibly then some christians. I did not know the bible at all and was not taught religion. At about 14 years of age I attended a small church service and at the end of the sermon the Pastor asked us to bow our heads and ask God what He wanted us to do. Being a young person I simply did as the Pastor instructed and to my complete amazement I was suddenly engulfed in intense love and could hear a voice speaking directly to my mind in very clear words. His first statement was, YOU MUST ACCEPT MY SON AS YOUR SAVIOR.
It took a while before I actually did accept Christ as Savior and during that time God talked to me for maybe an hour. It was years later when I begin to compare notes to other believers that I found that my experience was somewhat different.
Anyway, I was a firm believer in God before I ever read the bible because of my experience with God,even today the core of my faith is in the Person who came to me and talked to me and told me that I must accept His Son as my Savior.

Praise God, Sam!

 

[jasoncran]

The important thing, ISTM, jasoncran, is to be a good "mere Christian", not a

mere

Calvinist. As a former Lutheran, I could not follow Calvinism. I was fully

persuaded, as I still am, that Calvinism is a doctrinal error. Later, I learned my

Lutheranism was a mistake, too. Right now, I am like an orphan, but I can look

ahead in hope, and find a safe harbor, I believe, in the Russian Orthodox Church.

In Erie PA Scott H.

who said i am a calvinist, just stating that he wasnt all wrong.

do you believe that God is sovereign?

that when you came to the lord, it seemed the right time and that the draw was so strong that you couldnt fight it.
yes i could have said no but that was the only option i tried just about everything i could think of and i found that i wasnt better. i was still what i didnt like about me.

 

[Jake]

I believe, in the Russian Orthodox Church.

With all due respect, Scott, I believe this to be your error. You are trying to find a denomination in which to place yourself. The Body of Christ is not a denomination, if you are part of the Body, then you have already been placed.

 

[Scotth1960]

Praise God, Sam!

Dear Sam and Rockie and jasoncran, It is important receive Jesus as Saviour. He is the King of all. He alone can save us. However limited our knowledge of the Bible, He will lead us to greater knowledge and full knowledge of all of the truth (John 16:13), etc. He will solve the problems some of the members have in accepting infant baptism. Certainly, He will not lead away from what He identifies as His Church. And His Church baptized adults and infants and people of all ages. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[jasoncran]

Dear Sam and Rockie and jasoncran, It is important receive Jesus as Saviour. He is the King of all. He alone can save us. However limited our knowledge of the Bible, He will lead us to greater knowledge and full knowledge of all of the truth (John 16:13), etc. He will solve the problems some of the members have in accepting infant baptism. Certainly, He will not lead away from what He identifies as His Church. And His Church baptized adults and infants and people of all ages. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

you may engage my argument on infant baptism elsewhere.

i have no desire to join the local greek orthodox, as they seem to greek inclusive there.

why do i percieve that. well what else would one say when they do a greek feast every yr, and teach on greek food and culture on said day?

 

[Jake]

Dear Sam and Rockie and jasoncran, It is important receive Jesus as Saviour. He is the King of all. He alone can save us. However limited our knowledge of the Bible, He will lead us to greater knowledge and full knowledge of all of the truth (John 16:13), etc. He will solve the problems some of the members have in accepting infant baptism. Certainly, He will not lead away from what He identifies as His Church. And His Church baptized adults and infants and people of all ages. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

Scott,
You must stay focused, we are not speaking of infant baptism. The point of your thread is to interject everyone else's opinion on the Bible and not use the Bible as supreme authority and the Word of God - which is what it is.

 

[Scotth1960]

With all due respect, Scott, I believe this to be your error. You are trying to find a denomination in which to place yourself. The Body of Christ is not a denomination, if you are part of the Body, then you have already been placed.

Dear Rockie, Isn't "non-Russian Orthodox" also a denomination? The question is,

which Church taught the Bible and didn't need a Reformation or a Papacy?

In Erie Scott PS Christ saves all whom He will; and that can be both inside

and outside of the Orthodox Church. That doesn't mean the Orthodox Church

isn't the Church that Christ founded. We will all have differing opinions on

what the Christian Church is, and where we may find one.

 

[Jake]

Dear Rockie, Isn't "non-Russian Orthodox" also a denomination? The question is,

which Church taught the Bible and didn't need a Reformation or a Papacy?

In Erie Scott PS Christ saves all whom He will; and that can be both inside

and outside of the Orthodox Church. That doesn't mean the Orthodox Church

isn't the Church that Christ founded. We will all have differing opinions on

what the Christian Church is, and where we may find one.

Of course it's a denomination, Scott. No, Jesus did not "found" the Orthodox Church. He set up His Church, which is His Body - no denomination! Denominations have caused division, the Body is divided because of them.

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott,
You must stay focused, we are not speaking of infant baptism. The point of your thread is to interject everyone else's opinion on the Bible and not use the Bible as supreme authority and the Word of God - which is what it is.

Dear Rockie, Of course, the Bible is supreme authority for all Christians. Why is it,
then, that all Christians don't agree on every detail of what it all means? Just asking, not necessarily expecting a final answer here. Scott