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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Under Grace not Under Law
- Thread starter Papyrus_dust
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Papyrus_dust
Member
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
The teaching that insists salvation is conditional, revocable, is put away by another source. The sermon of Peter at Pentecost. As reported through the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 2.
God told us of his power of forgiveness in the old testament in Isaiah , "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more." Isaiah 43:25 And this was through the Prophet Isaiah and regarding Israel's unfaithfulness.
Later in the new testament after the blood sacrifice of lambs and goats and even cattle, was put away because Jesus was the final unblemished lamb to be sacrificed for the sins of the entire world on the cross, the covenant Christ's blood assured was eternal. And ever meaning of eternal unabridged as it is God's promise. His gift of grace, his calling, remember , are irrevocable. Irrevocable means exactly what God intended. Just as eternal does.
2 Corinthians 5:19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
God reconciled people to himself through the sacrifice of himself, embodied in his only begotten son, so as to never hold sins penalty against those who receive redemption from their sins.
Hebrews 10:17, Then he says, “I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds.
Hebrews 8:12 And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.
Micah 7:19, Once again you will have compassion on us. You will trample our sins under your feet and throw them into the depths of the ocean!
There are teachings that claim those who have Redemption in Christ and through God's atoning grace are still sinners who sin. And that our eternal salvation is transitory, able to be revoked if we choose.
However that isn't anything the actual teachings of scripture in context teach. That is not what Jesus died to deliver as the final sacrifice taking all the sins of the world upon himself. So that those who believe , have faith, are redeemed of their sins under that blood of the sinless man who was God born into flesh in order to reconcile himself with his creation.
To my recollection there are at least 8 scriptures that tell us God's redeeming grace insures he will never remember our sins when we come to him in repentance and are reborn in Christ.
When God says it I am obligated to believe it. Because God saves. False doctrine does not.
The teaching that insists salvation is conditional, revocable, is put away by another source. The sermon of Peter at Pentecost. As reported through the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 2.
God told us of his power of forgiveness in the old testament in Isaiah , "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more." Isaiah 43:25 And this was through the Prophet Isaiah and regarding Israel's unfaithfulness.
Later in the new testament after the blood sacrifice of lambs and goats and even cattle, was put away because Jesus was the final unblemished lamb to be sacrificed for the sins of the entire world on the cross, the covenant Christ's blood assured was eternal. And ever meaning of eternal unabridged as it is God's promise. His gift of grace, his calling, remember , are irrevocable. Irrevocable means exactly what God intended. Just as eternal does.
2 Corinthians 5:19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
God reconciled people to himself through the sacrifice of himself, embodied in his only begotten son, so as to never hold sins penalty against those who receive redemption from their sins.
Hebrews 10:17, Then he says, “I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds.
Hebrews 8:12 And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.
Micah 7:19, Once again you will have compassion on us. You will trample our sins under your feet and throw them into the depths of the ocean!
There are teachings that claim those who have Redemption in Christ and through God's atoning grace are still sinners who sin. And that our eternal salvation is transitory, able to be revoked if we choose.
However that isn't anything the actual teachings of scripture in context teach. That is not what Jesus died to deliver as the final sacrifice taking all the sins of the world upon himself. So that those who believe , have faith, are redeemed of their sins under that blood of the sinless man who was God born into flesh in order to reconcile himself with his creation.
To my recollection there are at least 8 scriptures that tell us God's redeeming grace insures he will never remember our sins when we come to him in repentance and are reborn in Christ.
When God says it I am obligated to believe it. Because God saves. False doctrine does not.
The parts that you ignore, claiming they were not written by Paul. This is a pointless conversation, you have already very plainly stated to me that You don't believe the parts of the bible that contradict your beliefs. It's just two completely different viewpoints. You know like the Muslims and the Jews, Both claim to be the rightful seed of Abraham. I happen to believe the Bible is the infallible word of God, others pick and choose. I just leave them alone, if the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the pit. Oh wait, I can't quote Jesus, he was speaking to the Jews, that's not applicable to you.
Papyrus_dust
Member
I don't own falsehoods. I strive to correct them against that which would insist on exacting such error as relevant to God's atoning grace and acceptable without rebuttal.
The scriptures such as this one, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." 1 John 3:19, rebukes the OSAS misrepresentation wherein it is taught once saved a saved one can sin all they want and be assured Heaven.
In short, that's a lie as is born out by numerous scriptures, repeated and yet ignored, that cleaves the truth of eternal salvation which is afforded through redemption which happens once, (once saved) and is an eternal covenant between God and those reconciled unto him. (eternally saved)
That there is an effort in the world to take the actual Redemption message, the Good News, and turn it into the work of the Devil, which is what it is when teachers claim the saved can sin like Sodom with no worries of Hell, does not mean the Good News is affected. It means the Devil and his horde know the truth shall set the world's people free. Those dead in their sins who are his now. And he strives to mislead and deceive so he can devour souls as reward for his effort.
Eternal salvation occurs when we are Redeemed in Christ. Reborn as we die to our sins and arise through baptism of his Holy Spirit, and in water, symbolic because Jesus word is the water of life. Redemption is not something a person does, redeeming themselves in the Lord ,over and over again.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Watching the video added to this discussion would help a great deal to understand the process of Redemption and Salvation in Christ.
Colossians 1:20-22 And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
The Bible shreds with scriptures the claim that eternal salvation is a license to sin. The undertaking to push that errant teaching anywhere in the world is , for those who read the Bible and find the passages anywhere at all that speak of the Good News Jesus died to deliver, an effort to make not credible the actual Good News. Because the Good News of Jesus Christ is that once we are redeemed in Him we are eternally saved and are assured everlasting life.
And those who leave the faith, they when they were in it were known by God by name as the sheep who would know Jesus' voice, which means the teaching of the Good News. And Jesus would know them. And no one removes the sheep from the great Shepherd, because as scripture parable did relate, when one sheep goes astray the shepherd, meaning Christ, doth seek them out and return them to the flock. In this life? Possibly so. After this life? Yes. Because, God and his will, and his foreknowledge of those who would be the sheep of his Shepherd son is not betrayed nor altered by the will of the sheep. The sheep may have forgotten their way to the sheepfold, but the Shepherd that is Sovereign and Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, shall NEVER forget the name of one lamb. One sheep. Not ever.
While those who were not actually in Christ and thought themselves able to sin till their eyes popped out while calling themselves his are not known to God. They are not the sheep who know his name. And that is apparent when the fruits such persons cultivate are rotten to the core.
The truth of God in Christ is the Good News that saved the world. And those who are his he calls to himself. No barrier of falsity can block the word of the Word of Life.
Though the undertaking of that which would think it possible is an instrument of his Sovereign teaching too.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
The test is easy and the Bible is the manual of instruction to effect that. All it takes is to know the actual Good News, and then listen to that which attempts to corrupt it. And for that undertaking Father foresaw in his Sovereignty how to assure his sheep to show no fear, because Jesus does not manifest fear in his sons and daughters. He manifests the strength the Armour of God assures. Truth is peace of understanding.
Falsity is what is scared of that.
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
1 Corinthians 1:8
Who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:38-39
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
1 John 3:6-9
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
Mary of Magdala knew the truth. Jesus told her, "Your sins are forgiven you. Go and sin no more." That's pretty forthright and from the mouth of Jesus himself.
Why would anyone want to corrupt the Good News that saves souls for eternity from their sins on earth?
Repeating the truth over and over against that opposed is folly. When the New Testament is there, the truth is available to all whom God calls to his Shepherd Son.
Amen and Amen. Hallelujah.
And that is all.
Could you share the scripture that teaches us we are reborn through baptism of the holy spirit?
JLB
I’m sure the Judaizers had the same opinion. What “law keepers” 100% believe is that Christ and His gospel can’t save. Puffed up in their own righteousness, they cannot see that Christ and His righteousness alones justifies. Just own it! If you’re going to proclaim it
Papyrus_dust
Member
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
1 John 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
Papyrus_dust
Member
I've asked myself when I run across those that 2nd Peter warns of. "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction." Chapter 2, verse 1.
I've asked myself, why would anyone , especially those who claim Christ, work so hard to argue against the simple truth of the Good News? It boggles the mind.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Boaz308, dirtfarmer here
One thing that I have observed in forums is that when truths that can't be disproved by scripture because of not rightly dividing the word of truth, is that poster begin to attack the person because of their understanding of scripture. So I guess this "pointless conversation", as so call by you has ended.
Conditional salvation is heresy! And yes these wolves lead people astray by having others rest in their own works of obedience as justification before God, rather than teaching that righteousness and forgiveness rest in Christ and He alone
Obviously I'm not talking about a false Christian, a tare.
A tare can never be wheat.
So that we don't keep going around in circles, claiming something that is not even being discussed, let's agree that it is Christians we are discussing.
If a Christian continues to keep on sinning will they be saved?
JLB
Papyrus_dust
Member
Conditional Salvation is heresy. But its advocates continue unabated in this. World.
Remember Satan when he tried to test Jesus in the wilderness? Satan knew who Immanuel was. And yet, he thought he had a chance to lead Christ from the path set before him. That which he was born to fulfill.
When Satan failed in that effort he turned his attentions to those whom Jesus' sacrifice saved from the sins that unrepented of would have made their souls Satan's. 1st Peter 5:8 Be alert, be reflective, because your enemy Satan roars like a lion and is walking and seeking whom he may devour.
Remember Jesus' warning to Simon and his disciples in Luke 22?
...28 But *ye* are they who have persevered with me in my temptations.29 And *I* appoint unto you, as my Father has appointed unto me, a kingdom,30 that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded to have you, to sift [you] as wheat;32 but *I* have besought for thee that thy faith fail not; and *thou*, when once thou hast been restored, confirm thy brethren.
I love that the Sovereignty of God insures we shall never meet any challenge, or teaching, for which his Word has not prepared us to understand as to the source from whence it sprang. Be it righteous or otherwise, the word of the Word of Life prepares us to face it all. And to rebuke that which seeks to sift like wheat.
We shall know them by their efforts. And there is no real threat in their making it. Because the Word tells us of them and their fate when literally all is said.
And done.
Galatians 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Just because we may meet those that twist scripture in order to in their mind discredit the Good News, doesn't mean the Good News is no longer .God sacrificed himself to deliver it to the world. Can false preachers anywhere in the world stand a chance against the King of the Universe?
I know they do not.
Bad news for them. 
Let them be accursed. But don't let them move your temperament in their direction. Or pay attention to the wicked efforts.Turn off the TV, walk away from them when they speak. Scroll past. Such ones can teach falsity and hope to lead. We know in the end the truth. Because the truth has set us free.
And they hate that.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21
JLB
Jim Parker
Member
dirtfarmer
Member
Are you saying that it's impossible for Christians to practice sinning?
Why then do some Christians become lost?
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20
What does Paul warn us in so many places in the New Testament about practicing the works of the flesh, if it's impossible for Christians to do so?
So if a brother in Christ is struggling with a sin, do we help them to overcome and turn them back to the truth so they won't be lost, or we simply brush them off as a false Christian?
JLB
Yes.
Abraham was justified when he obeyed the voice of the Lord to get out of his father's house and go to a land that the Lord would show him, which means he went by faith.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
Galatians 3:8
That Is how we are justified, by the obedience of faith.
So by faith (obedience) he was justified, (declared to be righteous; right with God)
This is how justication or righteousness by faith works.
John says it this way -
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
God tells us to do something and we have faith by hearing Him, and when we obey what He says, we are declared to be righteous by faith: the obedience of faith.
He was also justified when He offered Isaac.
Righteousness is only gained by the obedience of faith.
Faith without this work or action of obedience is dead, and does not function or produce the intended devine result, just as a body without a spirit is dead.
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
JLB
Papyrus_dust
Member
Please give a short description of what it means to be a Christian, according to scripture. Thank you.
KJV 1611 Dictionary Definition: chasten
1. To correct by punishment; to punish; to inflict pain for the purpose of reclaiming an offender; as, to chasten a son with a rod.
I will chasten him with the rod of men. 2 Sam. 7.
2. To afflict by other means.
As many as I love I rebuke and chasten. Rev. 3.
3. To purify from errors or faults.
chastened
CHASTENED, pp. Corrected; punished; afflicted for correction.
chastener
CHASTENER, n. One who punishes, for the purpose of correction.
chastening
CHASTENING, ppr. Correcting; afflicting for correction.
CHASTENING, n. Correction; punishment for the purpose of reclaiming.
No chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous but grievous. Heb. 12.
A Christian is a person who has obeyed the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord.
:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10
Which is another way of saying, a Christian is a person who has been born of God by believing Jesus is the Messiah.
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1
JLB