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Views on Taxation
- Thread starter WIP
- Start date
stovebolts
Member
I think maybe the bar has been lowered to make these numbers. My wife runs a food pantry and oversees 4 soup kitchens in our community. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to go hungry. Not to mention the $ the government puts on the bridge cards. BTW, do you know how easy it is to swap a bridge card for 50 cents on the dollar? It happens all the time.
This is a complicated subject that ranges from mental health issues to a lack of affordable housing for low income. This topic could take up its own thread.
There have been two suicides by hanging in our community this week and last month another suicide on the train tracks. It’s sad.
Back in high school, our sons best friends Father hung himself. His Father struggled with drug abuse and was separated from them but maintained weekly contact. His mother struggled with mental health issues but held things together and raised a well rounded kid. Anyway, the death of our sons best friends Father took its emotional toll and my son became his rock. This all happened at the same time my daughter died of fentanyl overdose across the country and when we left for her funeral, my sons best friend lost his support ( my son) who now was also suffering from the loss of his sister.
While we were across the country, the weight of it all was too much for my sons best friend and he tried to hang himself with a belt. His mother came home to find him dangling. apparently he had been dangling for some time. He was put in the hospital the day of my daughters funeral and we flew back the next day and visited him in the hospital.
CPS got involved and he came to live with us temporarily. He had two sisters under 6 and they were placed in foster care. That week while his Mom was coming home from a visit with her girls, the weight was too wavy and she jumped out of the car while it was going 50 mph and crushed her skull. Two days later we were at the hospital when her son made the decision to take her off life support.
Life can be full of unexpected tragedy and when I look at suicide, it really comes down to these feelings of hopelessness and lack of support. Getting in people’s lives can be messy, but if we don’t get in their lives, who will? I believe without a shadow of doubt that had my son not supported his best friend during that time, his friend would have committed suicide again. Today, while they are no longer best friends, they do maintain contact and he is doing very well. He is married and had a son that he adores and dotes on and while he struggles with wages, he’s doing what he needs to do to support his family. And I need to mention that he does not drink or do drugs. He saw what it did to his Mom and Dad and saw first hand it’s effects. Did I say how great he is with his so? He’s a fantastic Father.
jasonc
Member
I'm not a fan of corporations but to say that your taxes are not lining political favors .Anyone they deem rich? Ok
There are now multi multi multi billionaires in the USA…
And a shredded safety net pockets of deep poverty homelessness underfunded schools and medical services…
Although somehow there’s always enough money for prisons.
I read an article on SS that says don't plan on it being fixed or ever enough only a Minor helper for your retirement.it went into how it's not enough.
Ir local room to rent one bedroom ,one bath now 1600 a month
My wife couldn't afford that .that'd more there her ssdi.
jasonc
Member
How does veterans who often ,besides cops ,have suicidal inclinations based solely upon income ?
I battle that and I have not been hungry or homeless.the vets who are homeless the majority of them don't want help . PTSD drives one to eschew society .I wake up in those moods of no I don't want to be around anyone. Not even my wife
I battle that and I have not been hungry or homeless.the vets who are homeless the majority of them don't want help . PTSD drives one to eschew society .I wake up in those moods of no I don't want to be around anyone. Not even my wife
Hi Milk-Drops
While those fields certianly deserve attention, is it then your contention that we should just let our schools and governments teach us all about good infrastructure policies and work on great medical advances and have the most educated group of citizens in the world, do we just let the poor and the hungry die on the streets because some christians thinks it's a sin to help the needy if it's going to cost the rich an extra dollar or two.
I'm on the side of the poor. I can see and understand why some people don't assimilate well into a societal structure. However, that doesn't make their human lives less valuable and I rather imagine that it's a test of God to see whether or not any of us are really willing to do good for others even if it costs us something of our own. I rather think that God is looking for people who care more about others than themselves and their own comfort. After all, Jesus said that was one of the tests of being one of his. They will know you are mine in that you love one another.
God bless,
Ted
Milk-Drops
Member
Oh, I should clarify my position. I am ecconomicly left so I also support tons of programs for the poor. Personally I think the government be it state or fed should expand WIC and SNAP usage so everyone can obtain basic food. Mix that with state action with food pantries to get rid of the stigma. I also want education to expand to state wide funding instead of just local property taxes. I just don't think our current tax system solves the problem.
Can you show me in Scripture where it is Biblical to force someone else to support others? My understanding is that Jesus said, "You, help your neighbor." I'm not aware of anywhere in Scripture where Jesus even suggested using the power of government for force others to do what He commands us to do.
We have our preconceived ideas, whether accurate or not, but I don't think we have a clue about how many of the wealthy actually do contribute to help those in need. At the same time, how many people are sitting on their butts with their hand out when they could physically and mentally handle getting a job and working for it themselves. I've been in positions of need and I was amazed at how many others chose to stay in need because of the handouts they were getting.
It's one thing to be in an economy where finding work is nearly impossible but in today's economic situation, there are very few if any excuses. Yes, one may have to start at the bottom with an entry level pay scale but you've got to start somewhere.
I remember having this conversation with my classmates in tech school when they learned I was offered a job that didn't pay as much as they felt was appropriate for a 2-year tech school graduate. I said the same thing to them, "We have to start somewhere and build from there." I accepted the offer, worked hard, took advantage of every opportunity I could get such as training opportunities, personal study, doing work beyond my job description and cross-training, putting in extra hours, etc. to increase my value and I took advantage of all retirement plan opportunities. Over the course of 30 years I went from electrical assembly to field service tech to service advisor, to aftermarket electrical designer, to senior electrical designer, and to application engineer. I served on our product safety committee, served on our peer resolution committee to help resolve conflicts in the workplace, served on our company's philanthropic committee, and served on a committee to help us become employee owned. That last part gave me and all of us an opportunity to invest in our company and for those of us that took the opportunity, or risk depending on your point of view, it paid off. Obviously, there was a risk of things not going that way but considering the history of the company and its values, I felt it was a good risk. I wonder how many of my former classmates are now retired 30 years later. One thing I can tell you is that I got nothing handed to me. I worked hard for what I gained and maybe God played a part in guiding me on my path. Why would He do that? I do not know but if He did, I'm sure He had a plan in mind.
stovebolts
Member
That’s a great testimony Wip. Mine is similar in that nothing was handed to me. I put myself through college and refused to take student loans on an income of around 25k back in 1998-2000.
I graduated middle of my class and took a tech job that paid about $500 a month less than the construction job that paid for my college. This pay cut put my potential employer at odds and expressed his concern that I would stay. I asked if I would be at equal pay 1 year from my hire date if I excelled at my job. He said yes, and possibly some. Then I explained to him that my wife and I held no debt. Our home and autos were paid for. My college was $1000 a month and I was graduating in 2 months and we had x amount in savings. Basically, when I graduated I would have an extra $1000 a month. If I took a pay cut for $500 with a new job, economically it would feel like a $500 a month pay increase. I told him the pay cut was worth it because in 5 years I should be able to double my wages. It took three.
It took him some Time to really understand what I was saying.
That was almost 25 years ago and it’s paid off financially better than I ever imagined. But I do need to add this. I firmly believe God gave me the ability to make a living, but my focus was never on the money. My focus was being open to anyone who needed an ear or a shoulder to cry on. It’s always been about Gods work.
"Force" now there's one of those word bombs. As far as I understand the Scriptures, they expect us, God's children, to do it without having to be forced. You see, it's the way of the world that we have to protect all our money and stuff.
However, as it regards the general public in administering government programs? Yes, the government 'forces' people all the time to do things that, given a choice, they'd really rather not have to do. I really don't like all the time and paperwork involved in filing a tax return, but hey, ya gotta do it!
Look, as I understand the Scriptures, if I'm so concerned with losing some of my stuff to help others, that rather makes me like the rich young ruler. Jesus told him to sell all that he had and give it to the poor. Now, we all know that Jesus doesn't demand, as a practice of following him, to sell all that we have, but what this story tells is how easy it is for Jesus to see what's important to our heart. Money? Or others?
Actually, I'm not aware of Jesus having much at all to say about how the power of any government should work. However, in the old covenant, God did warn the Israelites, who wanted a king, that he would tax them, sometimes unfairly. So, I'm rather ok with the idea that government has always had its hand in the well being of its citizens. Both in taxing them and providing certain 'qualities of life' through government. But having said that, I don't really see anywhere in the Scriptures where Jesus had anything to say about it, either way. Can you point me there?
God bless,
Ted
God bless,
Ted
I understand and for the most part agree, however, there does seem to be a lot of Christians, even in my own neighborhood and church congregation that believe it is Biblical to support laws to take from the rich and give to the poor, what I call the "Robin Hood Syndrome." As a society, yes, we can do that but I do not believe it is a "Christian thing to do." The Christian thing to do is for me to help those in need around me. If every person that identifies as Christian did that, there would be no need for government to get involved at all. I think most of us can agree that having government involved with its bureaucracy and "questionable" use of funds is really a poor investment at best.
HI WIP
Well, I believe that it is biblical to support any righteous law. I've never seen the ability of any government to tax its people as unrighteous, according to the Scriptures. For there to be a 'law' that forces those who have plenty to set aside for those who do not, through taxation, then I'm for it to the point that any such costs do not become usurious.
There are some 'costs' that may apply to any society. Under our rule of governance, the people, through their vote and their elected representatives, get to decide what societal 'costs' they want to pay. Most industrialized societies struggle with these same issues. This is not some bugaboo that has never been dealt with before. What sort of support for our lives do we want from our government?
God bless,
Ted
Corn Pop
Member
I remember when they taxed cigarettes feeding on peoppes addiction.. That was a cross between a pass and a failure. I mean i do know some peope who gave up because the cost was so expensive huge taxes, so that side of it worked for some to quit smoking, on the other side many stores have and still do get robbed for smokes, if someone gets a pack of smokes these days they hide rhe smokes until the transaction had been payed before they hand it to you. That's how many were being robbed. That's the failure side.
So conclusion is in my opinion it helped some people gave up but many businesses suffered ram raids and thief from it and still do.
So conclusion is in my opinion it helped some people gave up but many businesses suffered ram raids and thief from it and still do.
jasonc
Member
The taxes I pay for new tires ,batteries are simply a way of getting money .the state doesn't recycle ,tires or batteries .
File bankruptcy,and no you can't not pay any taxes .you must pay it .
You can put your business pension plan on it and not pay thought it will be a fight in court but it has happened .
We fought the crown over taxation.