Views on Taxation

[Corn Pop]

As soon as you earn your salary and get taxed on it you shouldn't have to pay anymore taxes. I'm already giving the government 20% of my labour though my efforts and achievements. That's enough.

 

[Corn Pop]

And what do I get from it?. Crap roads full of potholes, stone age infrastructure that needs and upgrade, huge waiting lists anytime I would like government assistance. Not that I do. I don't rely on the system for anything even when im entitled.

I might get a pension one day if they havent taken it away when I'm too old and can't work anymore or keep up with inflation and im broke and miserable.

My compulsory super I might be able to purchase a loaf of bread when I'm allowed access my own money like 25 years.

 

[hawkman]

What sort of support for our lives do we want from our government?

I found out a support I do not want from our government .

Unelected government bureaucrats proclaiming mandates that are then enforced by AGW's .

That could put a burr under your saddle .

 

[jasonc]

I found out a support I do not want from our government .

Unelected government bureaucrats proclaiming mandates that are then enforced by AGW's .

That could put a burr under your saddle .

While I receive a veterans compensation,the VA can simply take that . No rating is ever free from that .that said I learned I can only save what I can and I strive to avoid relying on the state.

It is the state that has put Me into a precarious situation.lied to us about winning both Iraq and afghanistan.put vets into decision over health versus retirement .i can't know if I loose hearing with the pathetic hearing tests and army uses and since I didnt complain I recieve no help .I made sure I got mine for the PTSD and asthma

I short I learned that it's a game of shafting the state and vice versa.i was told by the vso this is the game .make the feds pay for your sacrifice and hold them to it.

Am I bitter at times ? Yes. I let it be known.

 

[Corn Pop]

While I receive a veterans compensation,the VA can simply take that . No rating is ever free from that .that said I learned I can only save what I can and I strive to avoid relying on the state.

It is the state that has put Me into a precarious situation.lied to us about winning both Iraq and afghanistan.put vets into decision over health versus retirement .i can't know if I loose hearing with the pathetic hearing tests and army uses and since I didnt complain I recieve no help .I made sure I got mine for the PTSD and asthma

I short I learned that it's a game of shafting the state and vice versa.i was told by the vso this is the game .make the feds pay for your sacrifice and hold them to it.

Am I bitter at times ? Yes. I let it be known.

You worked for the state and are a honerable veteran and individual of the country so it's the states duty to look after you in your retirement now you done your service and retired. Correct me if I'm wrong. You served the reserves and hit the 20 year mark service?

 

[jasonc]

You worked for the state and are a honerable veteran and individual of the country so it's the states duty to look after you in your retirement now you done your service and retired. Correct me if I'm wrong. You served the reserves and hit the 20 year mark service?

24 and I filed a claim last year .the reservist can retire but not collect until he is 59.

 

[Corn Pop]

I do believe in general veterans need to recieve a fair share for there service. I mean the Leader of a country can serve 3 years talking complete garbage and get security and benefits for life, while those who serve on the front line and suffer things like depression and PTSD for there service and love for there country get a raw deal.

 

[jasonc]

I do believe in general veterans need to recieve a fair share for there service. I mean the Leader of a country can serve 3 years talking complete garbage and get security and benefits for life, while those who serve on the front line and suffer things like depression and PTSD for there service and love for there country get a raw deal.

That's really another rabbit trail. But we'll politicians wouldn't run if they actually had to sacrifice .

We need a George Washington who thought more of farming then being a president .he wasn't afraid to lead from the front and refused to be a king .he also said holding office ought not to be your paying occupation,a lifestyle but something to be done to serve

But we have trump and Biden .Lord have mercy

 

[Corn Pop]

I guess im paying more taxes now. The government gave an apology by the crown and a made settlement deal for like 100 million from like issues 100s of years ago.

England should pay the bill. Maybe send it to King Charles or something. Why should I should pay the bill. I wasn't around in those days im nothing to do with it.

 

[Corn Pop]

100 million settlementand an apology to a tribe for an issue hundreds of years ago. Send the bill to England.

 

[stovebolts]

Well, I believe that it is biblical to support any righteous law. I've never seen the ability of any government to tax its people as unrighteous, according to the Scriptures. For there to be a 'law' that forces those who have plenty to set aside for those who do not, through taxation, then I'm for it to the point that any such costs do not become usurious.

I don’t mind paying taxes for things that benifit us all, like education, roads and dare I say health care?

But where the lines begin to blur are other things that I’d rather not support, like unbridled abortion access, or counselors who promote gender reassignment and administer testosterone to teenage girls without the parents consent all at the tax payers expense.

For me, these are moral issues and they are moral issues. My morals tell me these things should not be supported. However, others carry moral conviction that they should. When the majority holds a differing moral value, the minority is forced into compliance. And yes, I fully understand that this principal works both ways.

 

[jasonc]

I don’t mind paying taxes for things that benifit us all, like education, roads and dare I say health care?

But where the lines begin to blur are other things that I’d rather not support, like unbridled abortion access, or counselors who promote gender reassignment and administer testosterone to teenage girls without the parents consent all at the tax payers expense.

For me, these are moral issues and they are moral issues. My morals tell me these things should not be supported. However, others carry moral conviction that they should. When the majority holds a differing moral value, the minority is forced into compliance. And yes, I fully understand that this principal works both ways.

To a degree that is necessary ,some one will always disagree on morality .my issue is that in short the VA and military have burned into me why I don't want govt health care.

I seek Godly counseling on PTSD that doesn't involve drugs.

Jason is morose,the VA would ship antidepressant without in person counselling to learn why I feel that way and finding why I can be opposite . There is legit using of those but the VA is way to quick to simply give out those meds .

Prayer and seeking God to heal me is far better then simply popping a pill.

 

[miamited]

Hi stovebolts

I don’t mind paying taxes for things that benifit us all, like education, roads and dare I say health care?

Hi stovebolts

Right, but you're one of 330 million people for which our government holds some responsibility to protect and provide for. I agree with your list, but I also believe that providing some way that older people can have a living wage without having to work every day of their lives is also important to people these days. Practically every nation on the face of the planet has some sort of government sponsored or supported old age pay system, whereby when someone reaches an older age they don't have to feel pressured to get up and work until they're 90 or 100 to pay their bills.

Ranked: The Best and Worst Pension Plans, by Country

Which countries are best equipped to support their elderly citizens? This graphic compares pension plans around the world.

www.visualcapitalist.com

In today's world, governments are generally expected to provide some sort of way that older people can still receive some sort of wage into their last years. I think having a healthy old age segment in our society is a benefit to all. I know I wouldn't want to be 30 and see people starving to death or dying of dysentery because no one planned for the days when they wouldn't be able to work. So, when we stop and ask the other 330 million people of this country what they want the government to provide, then the list is likely to get longer. Who gets to choose? Who gets to say what our country should or shouldn't be doing?

The legislature! And we have to just agree to live by what the legislature decides because that's actually one of the things that is expected of a citizen of any nation. We actually force immigrants that are naturalized to declare that they will do everything in their power to uphold the laws and the constitution of the United States. However, we don't ask those born among us to make the same committment. Should we expect the same committment?

However, yes, I agree with you on the specific issue of abortion that our government shouldn't foot the bill for that, but again, it isn't what I want. I'm only one of 330 million people. A lot of those 330 million people want access to abortion and other reproductive 'medicines'. We are screaming at the tops of our voices through our entertainment medium that people should always be having sex. You should have sex when you go out with your neighbor for coffee and you should have sex if some man takes you out to dinner, or even if you happen to have to work late with a co-worker, our entertainment venues generally offer up SEX as just a way that two people kill time.

Well, that's great, except that sex creates babies. So, as long as a society is going to teach that sex is just something you do like playing cards after dinner, then they better have a way to take care of all the 'unintended' consequences. The answer to our abortion problem is that people don't live as God has asked us to live. But unless someone has met Jesus, then they don't know how God has asked them to live and certainly wouldn't see the importance of it even if they did. If they're living among a people who seem to treat the sexual relationship with such a cavalier attitude, then you should expect that they'll understand the sexual relationship as just being something that you would do an a whim just to have a good time. If that's what we're teaching in our entertainment, then we can expect a whole lot of unwanted pregnancies for which there will always be a need for the abortion procedure.

However, yes, I agree that the federal government should not pay for abortions. But insurance companies are certainly free to do so. As far as I know, the federal government does not really pay for abortions anywhere in the country, although I suppose an argument could be made for military women, since their insurance is funded and paid by the federal government. It's my understanding that the federal government, by it's own laws, can't provide funds that are used to provide abortion services. I could be wrong.

So you have an example where the federal governmnet is paying for abortions? Now, I don't mean to ask if they're sending funds to programs that also do provide abortions, but whether or not the money of the federal government is actually used to pay for an abortion procedure?

God bless,
Ted

 

[stovebolts]

agree with your list, but I also believe that providing some way that older people can have a living wage without having to work every day of their lives is also important to people these days.

What happened to being responsible and living below your means? Here’s the problem. People don’t think about retirement and they don’t plan for it either, then they expect the government (the tax payers) to continue to support their lifestyle of debt. For example, getting a 30 year Mortage is just stupid. Living below your means means nothing above a 15 year loan and you buckle down and pay it off in 12. Debt, debt debt…. People love debt and base their success on their credit score. They’ve got the wrong priorities.
It’s not how much you make, it’s how one manages what they have. It’s a mindset of being thankful and content with the things you have and not letting society trick you into thinking you need to keep up with the joneses. The Joneses don’t really have anything except debt. It’s all smoke and mirrors. A home built on the sand.

today's world, governments are generally expected to provide some sort of way that older people can still receive some sort of wage into their last years.

It’s called Social Security. And people should budget accordingly and not expect SS to be their primary income when they retire. If they do, then they need to downsize accordingly to live within their means. If somebody doesn’t plan for their retirement, then their lack of planning does not constitute an emergency rescue on my part. They should have started saving for retirement like a responsible member of society instead of having an attitude of entitlement.

I think having a healthy old age segment in our society is a benefit to all.

So do I except I think this extends to younger people too. Which is why I believe Medicare needs to be expanded. Healthcare should not wipe out a persons life savings during retirement.

I know I wouldn't want to be 30 and see people starving to death or dying of dysentery because no one planned for the days when they wouldn't be able to work. So, when we stop and ask the other 330 million people of this country what they want the government to provide, then the list is likely to get longer. Who gets to choose? Who gets to say what our country should or shouldn't be doing?

Listen, there are a lot of things I don’t want to see. And one of those things I see is a disregard for responsible money management especially when it comes to retirement. People need to be taught not to get sucked into debt and they need to learn contentment and how to be happy with what they have. If they waste all their time chasing after the debt, then there comes a time when the piper will need to be paid. I and other responsible money managers should not be punished and forced to pay for others debt that we did not rack up. Let them suffer for their lifestyle so maybe they will gain some wisdom to impart upon their children. Perhaps their children will see them suffer financially and not make the same mistake.

then we can expect a whole lot of unwanted pregnancies for which there will always be a need for the abortion procedure.

and I should not have to pay for the poor choices of others. Let them find their own money to kill their own child. My money should not be expected to pay for it. I didn’t have sex with the girl who wants an abortion. Why should I pay for it?

 

[jasonc]

What happened to being responsible and living below your means? Here’s the problem. People don’t think about retirement and they don’t plan for it either, then they expect the government (the tax payers) to continue to support their lifestyle of debt. For example, getting a 30 year Mortage is just stupid. Living below your means means nothing above a 15 year loan and you buckle down and pay it off in 12. Debt, debt debt…. People love debt and base their success on their credit score. They’ve got the wrong priorities.
It’s not how much you make, it’s how one manages what they have. It’s a mindset of being thankful and content with the things you have and not letting society trick you into thinking you need to keep up with the joneses. The Joneses don’t really have anything except debt. It’s all smoke and mirrors. A home built on the sand.

It’s called Social Security. And people should budget accordingly and not expect SS to be their primary income when they retire. If they do, then they need to downsize accordingly to live within their means. If somebody doesn’t plan for their retirement, then their lack of planning does not constitute an emergency rescue on my part. They should have started saving for retirement like a responsible member of society instead of having an attitude of entitlement.

So do I except I think this extends to younger people too. Which is why I believe Medicare needs to be expanded. Healthcare should not wipe out a persons life savings during retirement.

Listen, there are a lot of things I don’t want to see. And one of those things I see is a disregard for responsible money management especially when it comes to retirement. People need to be taught not to get sucked into debt and they need to learn contentment and how to be happy with what they have. If they waste all their time chasing after the debt, then there comes a time when the piper will need to be paid. I and other responsible money managers should not be punished and forced to pay for others debt that we did not rack up. Let them suffer for their lifestyle so maybe they will gain some wisdom to impart upon their children. Perhaps their children will see them suffer financially and not make the same mistake.

and I should not have to pay for the poor choices of others. Let them find their own money to kill their own child. My money should not be expected to pay for it. I didn’t have sex with the girl who wants an abortion. Why should I pay for it?

Thanks I have realized that with bankruptcy. I was going to say that.i get a raise I put more into the retirement plan outside of the mandates one .I just wish I started earlier .

We ought to address the whacky inflation of cars and homes and wages.

 

[WIP]

What happened to being responsible and living below your means? Here’s the problem. People don’t think about retirement and they don’t plan for it either, then they expect the government (the tax payers) to continue to support their lifestyle of debt. For example, getting a 30 year Mortage is just stupid. Living below your means means nothing above a 15 year loan and you buckle down and pay it off in 12. Debt, debt debt…. People love debt and base their success on their credit score. They’ve got the wrong priorities.
It’s not how much you make, it’s how one manages what they have. It’s a mindset of being thankful and content with the things you have and not letting society trick you into thinking you need to keep up with the joneses. The Joneses don’t really have anything except debt. It’s all smoke and mirrors. A home built on the sand.

It’s called Social Security. And people should budget accordingly and not expect SS to be their primary income when they retire. If they do, then they need to downsize accordingly to live within their means. If somebody doesn’t plan for their retirement, then their lack of planning does not constitute an emergency rescue on my part. They should have started saving for retirement like a responsible member of society instead of having an attitude of entitlement.

So do I except I think this extends to younger people too. Which is why I believe Medicare needs to be expanded. Healthcare should not wipe out a persons life savings during retirement.

Listen, there are a lot of things I don’t want to see. And one of those things I see is a disregard for responsible money management especially when it comes to retirement. People need to be taught not to get sucked into debt and they need to learn contentment and how to be happy with what they have. If they waste all their time chasing after the debt, then there comes a time when the piper will need to be paid. I and other responsible money managers should not be punished and forced to pay for others debt that we did not rack up. Let them suffer for their lifestyle so maybe they will gain some wisdom to impart upon their children. Perhaps their children will see them suffer financially and not make the same mistake.

and I should not have to pay for the poor choices of others. Let them find their own money to kill their own child. My money should not be expected to pay for it. I didn’t have sex with the girl who wants an abortion. Why should I pay for it?

I agree with most of what you say. I don't agree with your view of 30-year mortgages though. A mortgage can be managed if the monthly obligation is within one's means. A mortgage can be paid off early too, saving interest cost as you said. For most people, their income increases over time as they advance in their careers so as time goes on, a responsible person would slowly increase the amount they paid each month saving interest and paying down the debt early.

The last new vehicle I bought I paid cash for. Back in 2000 I bought my first new F-150. It was a 6-year loan and I was able to round the payment up to the nearest $100. I think it added about $40.00 per month. It resulted in reducing the term to less than 5 years plus interest savings. Once I paid it off, since I was accustomed to living with that payment, I continued to make the payment to my savings account. Three years later when I traded the vehicle for another new vehicle and I had saved enough to pay a large down-payment. I financed the balance for as long as I was allowed (6 years) in order to reduce my monthly obligation. Yes, this means a little higher interest but that monthly obligation was less than what I had been paying to my savings account so I continued paying that same amount toward the loan. I paid off that 6-year loan on the 2009 vehicle in about 3 years. Then, I continued to make my payment to my savings account again. In 2016 I decided to trade that 2009 vehicle and I had saved enough to pay cash.

I did the same thing with our home mortgage. Paying a little extra each month and as time went on I slowly increased that extra. I had always had a goal of not have a house payment after 50 years old and I succeeded, albeit by about 1 month.

Where I see society overspending is purchasing toys on credit and my all-time favorite...carrying a debt on credit cards. Carrying a credit card debt is super foolish in my opinion. I keep telling my wife, if you can't afford to buy it, how can you possibly afford to pay more for it?

I have always lived by a rule that I never borrow money for toys of any kind. I save until I can afford to pay cash. If I can't pay cash, I don't get it or if I feel I must have it, I buy a lower quality version and live with that decision.

I love the phrase, "living wage." It is so suggestive. I remember back in May of 1982 when I got laid off from my job in the mining industry of northern MN. We had just bought a house two months before I was laid off and had a child due in July. The rest of the country was in a recession but MN's iron range was in a depression with over 26% unemployment. Finding a job, any job, was nearly impossible.

Our union dues was partly used for a fund to finance displaced workers for a period of time when layoffs came. For six months I was able to get money from that account in addition to my unemployment insurance payments. Knowing that those funds were only going to be available for 6 months, as were UC payments, I used that extra $$ to pay down as much debt as I could along with selling anything and everything we didn't need in order to reduce our monthly obligations as much as possible. We also change our lifestyle by learning how to live with less. My previous income was pretty good at the time at over $25,000.00 per year so this was a challenge. We were accustomed to having money and now we would not. We managed to get rid of every loan except our mortgage. It sucked having to sell my canoe and motorcycle.

Long story short I eventually picked up a minimum wage job ($4.25/hr) working as a loader at a lumber yard. We managed to make our house payments, negotiate payments with our health care provider for our son's birth, and survive after UC payments ended. I remember how difficult it was to go fishing with my neighbor when I couldn't afford to buy bait. I picked night crawlers from our lawn to help out.

I later found another job that paid $5.00/hr and learned that I could save money even then. I thought, what if I was only paid $4.75/hr? So, I began putting $0.25/hr into a savings account each payday for emergencies. That added up to $520.00 per year and we didn't really feel the difference.

In this time of entitlement, what some see as a living wage differs greatly from what others see. People claim to live from paycheck to paycheck and they probably do but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that most of them are carrying debt for things other than minimum necessities. I've been there too. Before I was married in 1982, I was making over $25,000.00/yr. My rent was $50.00/mo., utilities about $8.00/mo., and I had no other debt except a student loan for $52.00/mo. My take-home pay was about $600.00 every other week and I was still living paycheck to paycheck. How foolish I was!!!

 

[stovebolts]

WIP
Thanks for sharing. I understand your view on a 30 year Mortage and a 6 year auto loan. I could never do either for two reasons.

1. In 1989 I grossed over 34k. That was good money back then. Life happened and I found myself living in a homeless shelter and I lost everything except my car which I hid from the Repo man for over a year until I saved enough to pay it off (I only owed $500 on it).

I get anxiety with debt because I understand it’s really not mine and all that money I paid toward the debt could be for nothing.

2. I work too hard to throw money away on interest. If you look at the money you pay in interest on a 30 year loan, without running the numbers I have to imagine it would pay for a few cars. The first new car I bought was in 2016 and I pulled a three year loan and paid it off in two. My second new car was in 2019 when I purchased a 2018 lease we had and we paid it off in just over 2 years.

Neither of those purchases would have been possible to pay off so quickly had we had a Mortage over our heads. In both cases, had “life” happened we could have pulled from other sources of income / savings and paid them off. Again, I carry anxiety with debt.

We paid our second house off I think around 2012 and we said no to a lot of things to pay it off so quickly. It also helped that our first home was paid off and was used as a huge down payment for our current home. Anyway, once we were Mortage free, we pretended we still had a Mortage and banked that $ and started enjoying the fruits of wage increases.

We have everything we need and honestly, the biggest expense I have is my Camaro and I pay cash for every upgrade. I’ve had several very significant pay bumps in recent years, yet I divert those pay increases into my 401k, savings, HSA, IRA’s and we are able to give to those in need within our community. None of this would be possible to the degree we are doing it had we not buckled down early and not only achieved debt free early, but also maintained that status.

We raised 3 kids and paid a Mortage off early and none of our kids went without and at that time my wages were not even close to what they are now. As a result, I am a firm believer that it’s not how much you make, but what you do with it.

I’m not saying a 30 year Mortage is wrong. Not an I saying a 6 year car loan is wrong. What I’m saying is I work too hard to give my money away to interest. I hate interest.

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks I have realized that with bankruptcy. I was going to say that.i get a raise I put more into the retirement plan outside of the mandates one .I just wish I started earlier .

We ought to address the whacky inflation of cars and homes and wages.

Housing costs are out of control…. I believe this is a motivator for 30 year home loans. I believe this is the biggest money sucker / transfer of wealth from the hard working American and corporate greed.

 

[jasonc]

Housing costs are out of control…. I believe this is a motivator for 30 year home loans. I believe this is the biggest money sucker / transfer of wealth from the hard working American and corporate greed.

15 year loans are more expensive .I would have lost my house years ago .
2000 grand a month for this house would have forced a modified loan per the court

 

[hawkman]

So you have an example where the federal governmnet is paying for abortions? Now, I don't mean to ask if they're sending funds to programs that also do provide abortions, but whether or not the money of the federal government is actually used to pay for an abortion procedure?

Let us see what we can find out .
Do Our Tax Dollars Pay for Abortions at Planned Parenthood?
From the link .

How Planned Parenthood Uses Money​

"Money is fungible. In other words, sources of income easily get mixed together.
For instance, let’s say that the government gives $500 million to PP. But since the government says this money can’t be used for abortion, PP puts the money into a different “pot.” PP now has an “extra” $500 million. That money frees up its other resources to cover other needs (like abortion). Then the organization can use these federal funds for other services, such as birth control, sex education, or any number of things. But in reality, these governmental funds help PP do what makes the most money. And that is abortion."
"And PP’s sex ed programs actually harm children. A July 2020 Family Leader article reported on federal studies, stating that PP’s sex education programs do not reduce teenage pregnancy. Furthermore, in five states where students were subjected to PP’s sex ed, pregnancy rates increased.

After all, Planned Parenthood’s sex education programs do not advocate abstinence. They do not teach morality. They do not teach respect for your own body. PP’s brand of sex education is quite the opposite: it teaches that pleasure rules and that we should do whatever we want. It hooks kids in with images, and it glorifies sex. It encourages them to seek birth control. And when that fails, it sells abortion."

Medicaid Fraud​

"In 2017, the Charlotte Lozier Institute found that there were 51 external audits or reviews of PP’s practices and financial records. These took place in California, Connecticut, Illinois, Louisiana, Maine, Ohio, Wisconsin, Nebraska, New York, Texas, Washington, and Oklahoma. According to the Institute, almost all of the audits found overbilling. It further stated that the audits found “numerous improper practices” for family planning and reproductive health services claims, and that this overbilling “amounted to more than $123.8 million.”

Texas has gone a step further. At the end of 2020, a Texas court declared that Planned Parenthood was not a “qualified” Medicaid provider. The Texas attorney general cited as evidence the undercover videos by the Center for Medical Progress. These videos showed “Planned Parenthood admitting to morally bankrupt and unlawful conduct.” Texas booted PP out of its state Medicaid program."

How much do taxpayers pay for abortions?​

"It’s hard to pinpoint an exact amount. State taxes fund abortion, but so do many employee insurance programs. A 2015 Forbes article examined data and broke down numbers, concluding that taxpayers subsidize about 24% of all abortion costs in the US. Federal taxpayers pay 6.6%. The remaining 17.4% is paid by state taxpayers. Forbes estimates that this is the equivalent of taxpayers paying for about 250,000 abortions a year.

While these numbers may be somewhat dated, the truth remains. Our tax dollars did—and still do—fund abortions. That’s thousands of babies killed each year. And with a Biden administration reversing pro-life policies, that number will only increase."