Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
What Church is This?
- Thread starter chestertonrules
- Start date
chestertonrules
Member
duval said:
Petros is masculine and of course Peter wouldn't be named Petras. That is not a legitimate concern.
Peter alone was given the keys, although all the apostles received the authority to bind and loose.
:rolling :rolling :rolling :toofunny Matthew 16
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Jesus asked them whom THEY said He was:
Peter answered that He was the Christ.
But, HOW did Peter know this?
Jesus said that God the Father REVEALED it to Him. (Think Revelation Knowledge)
Jesus said, "Upon this ROCK" (Revelation knowledge) I will build my church.
The church has ALWAYS been maintained by revelation knowledge. How did Martin Luther come to believe in salvation by FAITH? Revelation knowledge!!
How did Paul get the message He preached to the Gentiles? Revelation knowledge. Paul was SO SURE of what was revealed to him, he preached it for years, before he went up to those in Jerusalem that were "somewhat" among the brethern there. And then he said that they added NOTHING to him.
OF COURSE the church was not build on a man. That is silly; men die, men get goofy, and believe false doctrines; no the church was not built on Peter, but on REVELATION KNOWLEDGE from heaven. It has ONLY been by revelation knowledge that the church has stayed true to scriptures over the years.
So, someone might ask: WHY are there so many strange doctrines today? Or WHY are there so many denominations? the answer is very simple: few men today receive revelation knowledge. If all members of the body learned how to activate the teacher, the Holy Spirit, to teach them truth, we would all believe the same thing.
Coop
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Jesus asked them whom THEY said He was:
Peter answered that He was the Christ.
But, HOW did Peter know this?
Jesus said that God the Father REVEALED it to Him. (Think Revelation Knowledge)
Jesus said, "Upon this ROCK" (Revelation knowledge) I will build my church.
The church has ALWAYS been maintained by revelation knowledge. How did Martin Luther come to believe in salvation by FAITH? Revelation knowledge!!
How did Paul get the message He preached to the Gentiles? Revelation knowledge. Paul was SO SURE of what was revealed to him, he preached it for years, before he went up to those in Jerusalem that were "somewhat" among the brethern there. And then he said that they added NOTHING to him.
OF COURSE the church was not build on a man. That is silly; men die, men get goofy, and believe false doctrines; no the church was not built on Peter, but on REVELATION KNOWLEDGE from heaven. It has ONLY been by revelation knowledge that the church has stayed true to scriptures over the years.
So, someone might ask: WHY are there so many strange doctrines today? Or WHY are there so many denominations? the answer is very simple: few men today receive revelation knowledge. If all members of the body learned how to activate the teacher, the Holy Spirit, to teach them truth, we would all believe the same thing.
Coop
chestertonrules
Member
lecoop said:
God communicated directly to the leader of the Church.
This is still happening today.
The bible tells us to listen to THE Church.
Matthew 18
17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
1 John 4
6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
John 14
15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
watchman F
Member
haha, you don;t really believe that do ya.chestertonrules said:
chestertonrules
Member
watchman F said:
Yes, I believe the bible:
Matt 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven;
chestertonrules said:
Sorry, but these instructions are to a LOCAL BODY of the universal church. There is no "headquarters" for the universal church today; EXCEPT in heaven. No one denomination can claim to be "the church" on earth - although many cultish type denominations like to think they are.
It is a simple fact - whether or not you believe it: the Holy Spirit did not - and would not - tell one person one thing, and tell another an exact opposite thing. For example, He would NOT tell pentecostals that there IS a second, definite work of the Holy Spirit - called the baptism with the Holy Spirit - that comes AFTER regeneration - and tell Baptists that when they were born again - they got it all. He would NOT tell some that once they are saved, they are ALWAYS saved no matter what - - and tell others that they can LOSE their salvation.
No, the only reason why there are so many different opinions is very simple: FEW PEOPLE know how to listen to the Holy Spirit or know how to GET HIM to teach them the truth.
Coop
chestertonrules
Member
lecoop said:
What did the Christians at Antioch do when they had a dispute about the necessity of circumcision for gentile converts? Did they pray about the decision and follow their own personal decisions, or did they consult the leaders of the Church?
The answer was given directly to Peter from God in a vision:
Acts 15
7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
The Church leaders clarify that teaching without their authority can lead to error:
23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
JudaicChristian
Member
That would be a good point, only Yahwah is called the ROCK, and Yahshua is called the STONE.Caroline H said:
chestertonrules said:
Are you suggesting that today, if my local body in Tulsa has a dispute, that we send a delegate to Jerusalem to .....to .....Whom? Peter is dead. James is dead. "THE" church in Jersualem no longers exists. Furthermore, God said He would build His church on revelation knowledge - truth straight from the Holy Spirit. In truth, it is the job of every local pastor to HEAR FROM GOD about his own congregation.
Coop
chestertonrules
Member
lecoop said:
I'm suggesting that you should follow the leaders of the Church who were appointed by the apostles and their successors.
"And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture a certain place, 'I will appoint their bishops s in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.'... Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry...For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties." St. Clement, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98).
"For what is the bishop but one who beyond all others possesses all power and authority, so far as it is possible for a man to possess it, who according to his ability has been made an imitator of the Christ off God? And what is the presbytery but a sacred assembly, the counselors and assessors of the bishop? And what are the deacons but imitators of the angelic powers, fulfilling a pure and blameless ministry unto him, as…Anencletus and Clement to Peter?" Ignatius, To the Trallians, 7 (A.D. 110).
E
Elijah674
Guest
Psalms 77:13 Is Gods Way + Church & Acts 7:38 finds CHRIST IN IT!
Matt. 18 first & in part.. The True CHURCH IS ETERNAL REQUIRED GOSPEL. Rev. 14:6
[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.(and if you don't agree with Christ? you are your own fate maker! Obad. 1:16)
OK: Now comes the Truth about the True Church & how satan tries to take it over! Christ IS THE ROCK THAT HIS CHURCH IS BUILT ON. But the thought here is, is that satan comes at Christ's Church with all kinds of perversions & counterfeits. Today we see not only romes 'satanic prophetic' stuff, (Dan. 7:25) but also Korah satanic 'go it alone' rekindled prophesy of Isaiah 14:12-14's I,I,I,I,I am equal to God's leadership!! (or above, huh!) But this below is more of Christ's Words of Matt. 16:15-19, & then on to satan's Korah's Go it alone stuff! Both professions are of satan!
First we see the mother Abomination of the earth founded on one verse! [[THINK ABOUT THAT!]]] The whole World Wondered after this stuff. Even to the point of the Supreme Court of the USA having what? 6 of 9 Supreme Court Justice's all catholic who put the Popes word over God. And another appointment of who coming?[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon [this rock] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
And there are to be only TWO Church Folds at the END. Christ's True Virgin ones that the 'Gates of hell [SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST], plus the GATES OF sATAN's HELL THAT WILL TRY TO PREVAIL against it! (Dan. 7:25. In Rev. 17:5 we see the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH including all of satan [LOST] crew.. daughters as well. And in Rev. 3:16-17 we see Laodicea being SPEWED OUT to join these ones now called the Synagogue (CHURCH) of satan.
And ONLY these ones are mentioned here in verse 10 who are kept from this 'hour of temptation that is to try the whole world'! These are this last ORGANIZED CHURCH of Philadelphia Church that the Gates Of Hell Wil Not Prevail Against! This Church REMNANT (again Rev. 12:17) will FINISH up very quickly Christ's Church work for Earth's unwarned ones with the 666 mark of satan. All others are now without the Striving of the Holy Ghost & these host of lost ones are the ones of Rev. 17:5 + Rev. 3:9 who still profess to be 'c'hristians. Christ/less they are! And now will need the power of Caesar to do satan's Gen. 4:7 [DESIRE]. As was Cain, satan was a murder from this beginning! (representing the Sin Against Ghost & the SECOND ETERNAL DEATH!)
Overthrow?? satan's men of Gen. 4:7. satan always has a counterfeit. Just some of the Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 'Documented repeats of satans stuff. Yet, NEVER think that Christ does not REQUIRE HIS CHURCH ORDER, just because of satan FLAWED COPY! And one thing is certain, in Josh. 7:12's last part of the verse we see that [NO CHURCH] living in open documented daily sin has Christ in it, [THEY ARE CHRISTLESS!]
Num.16 (in part)
[1] Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:
[2] And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
[3] And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?
OK: Today we have satan using these verses against God, and then using then for his GARBAGE! In other words these men have said what? And If you do not know what is taking place on these forums from these GO IT ALONE ones, you are BLINDER THAN ROME! Read it again! Separate followers of who Korah (satan) say what? We need NO Church! We are the 'LOOSE CANNON'S' that makeup the Church!
Now: Here comes satan's last Church using the same satanic stuff for his garbage.. of ONLY ONE CHURCH with a succession of Peter the Pope while (teaching & living in BLASPHEMY) and all the Korah's were the start of the PROBLEM! And you can be sure that this lone ranger started out in heaven's REBELLION as a 'LOOSE CANNON!'
And what happened there.. you can go read it??
But bottom/line!
Christ is the Church CENTERPIECE of the Seven Candlesticks with just 3 extending from His two sides! [HE IS LIGHT OF THE WORLD] with the others the same on conditional Eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20. (IF FAITHFUL! Rev. 2:5 )
So all are UNITED. In just these two camps! Matt. 6
[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
[23] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
satan has huge 'doctrinal' mix/ups among most! BABYLON is not just a meaningless Inspired Word!
A shaking must come God says! satan says that the church stays put (rome is his church)!
But who left whom in Christ day??? The OPEN KILLERS stayed put in the Christ/less ex/fold! (see Isa. 5:3)
Then comes being UNITED! God gives the above Truth! satan says that we are to see another such UNITING! (ecumecial movement) You must join my fold!! [FORCED WORSHIP of only taking my mark of REBELLION AGAINST GOD] These ones will all be United! Rom. 13 will be worn out with satans ones quoting these misunderstood verses against the God Fearing UNITED ONES! That is the FINAL TESTING! Exodus 16's one. Simply put?? 'IF YE LOVE ME!!! KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS' (Commandments OF GOD, and the TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST! Rev. 12:17 See Mal. 4:5-6!
---Elijah
Matt. 18 first & in part.. The True CHURCH IS ETERNAL REQUIRED GOSPEL. Rev. 14:6
[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.(and if you don't agree with Christ? you are your own fate maker! Obad. 1:16)
OK: Now comes the Truth about the True Church & how satan tries to take it over! Christ IS THE ROCK THAT HIS CHURCH IS BUILT ON. But the thought here is, is that satan comes at Christ's Church with all kinds of perversions & counterfeits. Today we see not only romes 'satanic prophetic' stuff, (Dan. 7:25) but also Korah satanic 'go it alone' rekindled prophesy of Isaiah 14:12-14's I,I,I,I,I am equal to God's leadership!! (or above, huh!) But this below is more of Christ's Words of Matt. 16:15-19, & then on to satan's Korah's Go it alone stuff! Both professions are of satan!
First we see the mother Abomination of the earth founded on one verse! [[THINK ABOUT THAT!]]] The whole World Wondered after this stuff. Even to the point of the Supreme Court of the USA having what? 6 of 9 Supreme Court Justice's all catholic who put the Popes word over God. And another appointment of who coming?[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon [this rock] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
And there are to be only TWO Church Folds at the END. Christ's True Virgin ones that the 'Gates of hell [SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST], plus the GATES OF sATAN's HELL THAT WILL TRY TO PREVAIL against it! (Dan. 7:25. In Rev. 17:5 we see the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH including all of satan [LOST] crew.. daughters as well. And in Rev. 3:16-17 we see Laodicea being SPEWED OUT to join these ones now called the Synagogue (CHURCH) of satan.
And ONLY these ones are mentioned here in verse 10 who are kept from this 'hour of temptation that is to try the whole world'! These are this last ORGANIZED CHURCH of Philadelphia Church that the Gates Of Hell Wil Not Prevail Against! This Church REMNANT (again Rev. 12:17) will FINISH up very quickly Christ's Church work for Earth's unwarned ones with the 666 mark of satan. All others are now without the Striving of the Holy Ghost & these host of lost ones are the ones of Rev. 17:5 + Rev. 3:9 who still profess to be 'c'hristians. Christ/less they are! And now will need the power of Caesar to do satan's Gen. 4:7 [DESIRE]. As was Cain, satan was a murder from this beginning! (representing the Sin Against Ghost & the SECOND ETERNAL DEATH!)
Overthrow?? satan's men of Gen. 4:7. satan always has a counterfeit. Just some of the Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 'Documented repeats of satans stuff. Yet, NEVER think that Christ does not REQUIRE HIS CHURCH ORDER, just because of satan FLAWED COPY! And one thing is certain, in Josh. 7:12's last part of the verse we see that [NO CHURCH] living in open documented daily sin has Christ in it, [THEY ARE CHRISTLESS!]
Num.16 (in part)
[1] Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:
[2] And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
[3] And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?
OK: Today we have satan using these verses against God, and then using then for his GARBAGE! In other words these men have said what? And If you do not know what is taking place on these forums from these GO IT ALONE ones, you are BLINDER THAN ROME! Read it again! Separate followers of who Korah (satan) say what? We need NO Church! We are the 'LOOSE CANNON'S' that makeup the Church!
Now: Here comes satan's last Church using the same satanic stuff for his garbage.. of ONLY ONE CHURCH with a succession of Peter the Pope while (teaching & living in BLASPHEMY) and all the Korah's were the start of the PROBLEM! And you can be sure that this lone ranger started out in heaven's REBELLION as a 'LOOSE CANNON!'
And what happened there.. you can go read it??
But bottom/line!
Christ is the Church CENTERPIECE of the Seven Candlesticks with just 3 extending from His two sides! [HE IS LIGHT OF THE WORLD] with the others the same on conditional Eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20. (IF FAITHFUL! Rev. 2:5 )
So all are UNITED. In just these two camps! Matt. 6
[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
[23] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
satan has huge 'doctrinal' mix/ups among most! BABYLON is not just a meaningless Inspired Word!
A shaking must come God says! satan says that the church stays put (rome is his church)!
But who left whom in Christ day??? The OPEN KILLERS stayed put in the Christ/less ex/fold! (see Isa. 5:3)
Then comes being UNITED! God gives the above Truth! satan says that we are to see another such UNITING! (ecumecial movement) You must join my fold!! [FORCED WORSHIP of only taking my mark of REBELLION AGAINST GOD] These ones will all be United! Rom. 13 will be worn out with satans ones quoting these misunderstood verses against the God Fearing UNITED ONES! That is the FINAL TESTING! Exodus 16's one. Simply put?? 'IF YE LOVE ME!!! KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS' (Commandments OF GOD, and the TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST! Rev. 12:17 See Mal. 4:5-6!
---Elijah
chestertonrules said:
How about we use the word of God?
Eph 4
10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) [JESUS]
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Sorry, but this does NOT lead me to Rome. There are apostles here in Tulsa. There are Prophets here in Tulsa. There are evangelists and teachers here in Tulsa. JESUS established them. WHY did He establish them? To perfect the saints that make up the entire body of Christ - until we ALL come in the unity of the faith. If you think God's entire church is UNDER some man in Europe (by authority of heaven), you are greatly deceived. Are you one that is "lying in wait to deceive?"
Coop
E
Elijah674
Guest
Just one thought, 'What one Church is this?' (Acts 7:38)
Josh.7
[1] But the children of Israel committed a trespass in the accursed thing: for Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took of the accursed thing: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against the children of Israel. (breaking any commandment (1 John 3:4)
[2] And Joshua sent men from Jericho to Ai, which is beside Beth-aven, on the east side of Bethel, and spake unto them, saying, Go up and view the country. And the men went up and viewed Ai.
[3] And they returned to Joshua, and said unto him, Let not all the people go up; but let about two or three thousand men go up and smite Ai; and make not all the people to labour thither; for they are but few.
[4] So there went up thither of the people about three thousand men: and they fled before the men of Ai.
[5] And the men of Ai smote of them about thirty and six men: for they chased them from before the gate even unto Shebarim, and smote them in the going down: wherefore the hearts of the people melted, and became as water.
(And why?? God does not leave the Rev. 17:1-5 ones HIDDEN FROM VIEW!)
[6] And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads.
[7] And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord GOD, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan!
[8] O Lord, what shall I say, when Israel turneth their backs before their enemies!
[9] For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land shall hear of it, and shall environ us round, and cut off our name from the earth: and what wilt thou do unto thy great name?
[10] And the LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?
And GOD REPLIED:
[11] Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff.
[[THINK!]] But few knew of this theft but Achan and his family, for it was buried in the CENTER OF THE TENT. + 36 men died because of it!)
[12] Therefore the [children of Israel] could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: [[[neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.]]]
Take special note that they ALL WERE PARTAKERS OF THIS SIN AS A BODY!] See Rev. 18:4
OK!! Christ DOCUMENTED as a God that CANNOT LIE! And that [[CHANGETH NOT]] that He would be IN NO CHURCH THAT TEACH'S FALSE DOCTRINE & LIVING IN [[OPEN]] SIN EVER!! And 'what CHURCH IS THIS'?? Well, all can be sure that it is not any that for the past 120 + years of Gen. 6:3 had the Holy Spirit STRIVING with them to [TOSS OUT] all there false trite! They even had as Peter discribe Noah as the preacher of Rightousness along with the Holy Spirits Strivings! And us??? See Mal. 4:5-6.
--Elijah
Josh.7
[1] But the children of Israel committed a trespass in the accursed thing: for Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took of the accursed thing: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against the children of Israel. (breaking any commandment (1 John 3:4)
[2] And Joshua sent men from Jericho to Ai, which is beside Beth-aven, on the east side of Bethel, and spake unto them, saying, Go up and view the country. And the men went up and viewed Ai.
[3] And they returned to Joshua, and said unto him, Let not all the people go up; but let about two or three thousand men go up and smite Ai; and make not all the people to labour thither; for they are but few.
[4] So there went up thither of the people about three thousand men: and they fled before the men of Ai.
[5] And the men of Ai smote of them about thirty and six men: for they chased them from before the gate even unto Shebarim, and smote them in the going down: wherefore the hearts of the people melted, and became as water.
(And why?? God does not leave the Rev. 17:1-5 ones HIDDEN FROM VIEW!)
[6] And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads.
[7] And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord GOD, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan!
[8] O Lord, what shall I say, when Israel turneth their backs before their enemies!
[9] For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land shall hear of it, and shall environ us round, and cut off our name from the earth: and what wilt thou do unto thy great name?
[10] And the LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?
And GOD REPLIED:
[11] Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff.
[[THINK!]] But few knew of this theft but Achan and his family, for it was buried in the CENTER OF THE TENT. + 36 men died because of it!)
[12] Therefore the [children of Israel] could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: [[[neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.]]]
Take special note that they ALL WERE PARTAKERS OF THIS SIN AS A BODY!] See Rev. 18:4
OK!! Christ DOCUMENTED as a God that CANNOT LIE! And that [[CHANGETH NOT]] that He would be IN NO CHURCH THAT TEACH'S FALSE DOCTRINE & LIVING IN [[OPEN]] SIN EVER!! And 'what CHURCH IS THIS'?? Well, all can be sure that it is not any that for the past 120 + years of Gen. 6:3 had the Holy Spirit STRIVING with them to [TOSS OUT] all there false trite! They even had as Peter discribe Noah as the preacher of Rightousness along with the Holy Spirits Strivings! And us??? See Mal. 4:5-6.
--Elijah
chestertonrules
Member
lecoop said:
I'm sure there are successors of the apostles in Tulsa, but they might not be the people you have in mind.
Jesus gave his disciples the authority to appoint successors, and he gave them the authority to lead.
An individual doesn't get to claim this authority for himself.
Do these "apostles" of yours have the authority to forgive sins?
John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
chestertonrules said:
I doubt if you really understand the intent of the author here:
We are all to forgive:
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Can you find one (1) verse anywhere that tells any believer NOT to forgive sins of others?
Jesus Himself set the example, saying "Father, forgive them."
Did you notice that? Jesus conferred the forgivness to the Father.
What was the great commission give to these same men? It was to preach the gospel.
If the gospel is not preached, people do not hear.
Romans 10:
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
Jesus did the sending; the rest was up to them. Paul gives us the specific order:
1) preachers are sent
2) the sent ones preach the gospel of the SON.
3) People hear the preaching; that Jesus' blood will wash away their sins
4) People BELIEVE on Him; the one who died for them!
5) People CALL on Him!
6) People are saved: have their sins REMITTED.
Each and every Christian has the same choice: to tell others - or to keep silence. In this choice, we either allow the forgivness of sins by telling them about Jesus - or we deny that forgivness by keeping silence.
Finally:
Mark 2:7
Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Luke 5:21
And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Coop
The Apostles were to "declare" the forgiveness of sins. Only God can forgive sin. The Lord did not grant that right to the apostles or anyone else. Only God can look into the heart of man and know if there is true repentance. This verse in John is one of the most misunderstood in the whole Word. It has no support, as you're reading it, with the rest of Scripture.chestertonrules said:
The apostles knew what Jesus meant and here we see it in action.
Only God can forgive sin.Acts 8:22 said:
E
Elijah674
Guest
1 John 5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (compare James 1:15's FULLY MATURE GROWTH)
And ALL the ones of Rev. 17 from Mother on down have indeed passed their 120 years of the Holy Spirit's STRIVING for [[those]] apostate church's. They had indeed passed their boundaries to BLASPHEMY the Word of God [DOCUMENTS]! Matt. 12:31-32 And the one individual yoked in their membership?? Christ even tells their fate as to their Rev. 18:4 FATAL DECISION!
--Elijah
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (compare James 1:15's FULLY MATURE GROWTH)
And ALL the ones of Rev. 17 from Mother on down have indeed passed their 120 years of the Holy Spirit's STRIVING for [[those]] apostate church's. They had indeed passed their boundaries to BLASPHEMY the Word of God [DOCUMENTS]! Matt. 12:31-32 And the one individual yoked in their membership?? Christ even tells their fate as to their Rev. 18:4 FATAL DECISION!
--Elijah
chestertonrules
Member
[quote="glorydaz] The Apostles were to "declare" the forgiveness of sins. Only God can forgive sin. The Lord did not grant that right to the apostles or anyone else. Only God can look into the heart of man and know if there is true repentance. This verse in John is one of the most misunderstood in the whole Word. It has no support, as you're reading it, with the rest of Scripture.
Only God can forgive sin.[/quote]
Jesus granted his authority to the apostles. The apostles were given the power to forgive sins in the name of Jesus by Jesus. The Church is the body of Christ.
John 20 is not unique:
Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Matt 10:40
"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.
John 13:20
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me."
John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
God gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins.
St. Augustine understood this well:
"Let us not listen to those who deny that the Church of God is able to forgive all sins. They are wretched indeed, because they do not recognize in Peter the rock and they refuse to believe that the keys of the kingdom of heaven, lost from their own hands, have been given to the Church."
Christian Combat 31,33, 396 A.D.
Only God can forgive sin.[/quote]
Jesus granted his authority to the apostles. The apostles were given the power to forgive sins in the name of Jesus by Jesus. The Church is the body of Christ.
John 20 is not unique:
Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Matt 10:40
"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.
John 13:20
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me."
John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
God gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins.
St. Augustine understood this well:
"Let us not listen to those who deny that the Church of God is able to forgive all sins. They are wretched indeed, because they do not recognize in Peter the rock and they refuse to believe that the keys of the kingdom of heaven, lost from their own hands, have been given to the Church."
Christian Combat 31,33, 396 A.D.