What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?

[JLB]

Many will say " Lord, Lord" who have never known Him and been saved, thus never abided in Him right ?

Right, they NEVER knew Him.


However, I am not referring to the group that NEVER knew Him.

I am referring to a person who is in Christ, then are removed from Christ.

Once a person is in Christ, they are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him, thus being one with the Spirit of life in Christ; the know Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

Knowing Him is the definition of eternal life.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

When a person is no longer in Christ, they no longer have eternal life.

Again, John explains how we remain in Christ.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


In order to remain in Christ, a person has to first be in Christ to begin with, so no, I’m not referring to people who NEVER knew Him.





JLB

 

[JLB]

The Lord said that those who belong to Him are known by their fruit for a reason.

Brother, a person must first be in the Vine in order to produce fruit.

Are you trying to say a person must first produce fruit before they are in the Vine?

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2


The person is indeed in Him, but doesn’t produce fruit.





JLB

 

[JLB]

Agreed that those who are saved do not become unsaved.

Sorry but Jesus says otherwise, as well as His Apostles.

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:4-6

Christians who do not remain in Him, can indeed be cast into the fire and burned.

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Sin is what causes a Christian to not remain in Christ.
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

His sheep did indeed become lost.


Do you believe the lost need salvation?






JLB

 

[electedbyhim]

It must be a real roller coaster ride to have to maintain your own salvation and be worried that every time you sin you might loses that salvation. What a mental mind game.

Praise God that His word does not teach that you can lose or walk away from salvation.


Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Right, they NEVER knew Him.


However, I am not referring to the group that NEVER knew Him.

I am referring to a person who is in Christ, then are removed from Christ.
.

With all the people that Jesus identifies by name becoming saved, The Centurion, The woman at the well, The man possessed, Zacheous the tax man , The woman with the issue of Blood, The thief on the cross, etc,etc,etc,etc & etc.
There is not one person Jesus identifies by name likewise becoming unsaved !
Not one to support a word of what you are claiming .
Not one personal example of someone being unsaved, as in those multiple instances Jesus identifies being saved.
You are allowed to believe such a thing of course
Is there anything worse and more tragic that could happen to a person according to Jesus than going to hell ?
Anything?
I'm just curious how you reconcile in your own mind Jesus not giving a likewise personal of unsaved juxtaposed exactly as saved
Why then do you think Jesus left you not one clear example of a named person who He personally saved, who then came back to Him to reject Jesus to His face and be forever lost ?
Jesus gave you no personal example of what can only be described as the most tragic thing that can happen to a person.
Your only explanation for Jesus giving you not one personal example to name of someone having this tragedy happen them is that such a tragedy as a person being lost forever in this manner was not important enough for Jesus to give a personal example.
That may be the Jesus you know, but it is not the one I know

 

[JLB]

With all the people that Jesus identifies by name becoming saved, The Centurion, The woman at the well, The man possessed, Zacheous the tax man , The woman with the issue of Blood, The thief on the cross, etc,etc,etc,etc & etc.
There is not one person Jesus identifies by name likewise becoming unsaved !
Not one to support a word of what you are claiming .
Not one personal example of someone being unsaved, as in those multiple instances Jesus identifies being saved.
You are allowed to believe such a thing of course
Is there anything worse and more tragic that could happen to a person according to Jesus than going to hell ?
Anything?
I'm just curious how you reconcile in your own mind Jesus not giving a likewise personal of unsaved juxtaposed exactly as saved
Why then do you think Jesus left you not one clear example of a named person who He personally saved, who then came back to Him to reject Jesus to His face and be forever lost ?
Jesus gave you no personal example of what can only be described as the most tragic thing that can happen to a person.
Your only explanation for Jesus giving you not one personal example to name of someone having this tragedy happen them is that such a tragedy as a person being lost forever in this manner was not important enough for Jesus to give a personal example.
That may be the Jesus you know, but it is not the one I know

Please refer to the verse where the word “unsaved” appears.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?
I am unaware of anything in this regard,

A saved person doesn't become unsaved, but a saved person who's unprofitable will lose their reward in the kingdom to come. "If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14-15)

 

[Consecrated Life]

Right, they NEVER knew Him.


However, I am not referring to the group that NEVER knew Him.

I am referring to a person who is in Christ, then are removed from Christ.

Once a person is in Christ, they are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him, thus being one with the Spirit of life in Christ; the know Him.

JLB

Describe the process of a person who is saved, sanctified, redeemed , washed in the Blood of Jesus, Who loves Jesus becoming re- condemned and bound for hell.
It is curious to me that in all this talk of such a thing being possible I have yet to hear a a description of exactly how a person would accomplish it ?
Exactly how would I do this for myself if I wanted to become re-condemned and bound for hell ?
Thank You

 

[electedbyhim]

Describe the process of a person who is saved, sanctified, redeemed , washed in the Blood of Jesus, Who loves Jesus becoming re- condemned and bound for hell.
It is curious to me that in all this talk of such a thing being possible I have yet to hear a a description of exactly how a person would accomplish it ?
Exactly how would I do this for myself if I wanted to become re-condemned and bound for hell ?
Thank You

Excellent post.

I also would be interested in how this process works.

Is it in the Bible somewhere and I missed it?

 

[GodsGrace]

In Calvinistic theology, the question of whether a saved person can become unsaved is often explored in the context of the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. This doctrine asserts that those whom God has elected and regenerated will continue in faith and will not ultimately fall away from grace.
Calvin's Emphasis on Perseverance: John Calvin, a key figure in the development of Calvinism, strongly emphasized the idea that those who are truly saved will be preserved by God's grace and will not lose their salvation.
Calvin's Perspective: "Christ promises eternal life to all His sheep, and He knows His sheep to be His from the beginning." (John Calvin's Commentaries on the Harmony of the Gospels)
Biblical Support for Perseverance: Calvinists often turn to biblical passages that highlight the security of believers and their perseverance in faith. One such passage is John 10:27-29.
Calvin's Perspective: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28)
Concerns about Apostasy: In addressing the idea of a saved person becoming unsaved, Calvinists may express concerns about the concept of apostasy but argue that true believers will not experience a complete and final falling away.
Calvin's Perspective: "For Christ will not be life to any who are not members of His body; and it is equally true that He is life to none but the elect." (John Calvin's Commentaries on the Harmony of the Gospels)
While this perspective is specific to Calvinistic theology, it's essential to note that other theological traditions, such as Arminianism, may hold different views on the perseverance of the saints and the possibility of apostasy. Theological perspectives on salvation and the security of believers can vary widely within the Christian faith.

Hi Tulipbee,
Welcome to the forum.

You're in the Apologetics Forum.
It's necessary when you post here that you give the source of anything you write that does not come from your own ideas or beliefs.

The above does not sound like something you wrote yourself.
Please state the source from now on.

Thanks.

 

[Tulipbee]

Agreed that those who are saved do not become unsaved.
As to becoming saved by Calvinistic theology from what I know of it anyway, runs contradictory to many of the examples in scripture I see of God utilizing so many various individual commands, inspirations, challenges, flat out defeats, etc,etc,etc, to save some in example, in order to use said examples to yet even further His drawing of others unto Himself that at some point, for me I have to say that such a theology does not compute.

Merry Christmas

Life, thank you for sharing your perspective on the question of salvation and the contrasting views within theological traditions. It's indeed a topic that sparks diverse discussions within the Christian faith.

Your observation about the multifaceted ways God interacts with individuals in the Bible to bring them into salvation is thought-provoking. The variety of narratives, commands, challenges, and inspirations in Scripture does showcase the richness and complexity of God's redemptive work.

As you rightly pointed out, different theological traditions offer distinct lenses through which believers interpret these aspects of salvation. The tension between God's sovereignty and human responsibility is a profound and often debated aspect of Christian theology.

Wishing you a Merry Christmas as well! If you have any more thoughts or questions on this or any other topic, feel free to continue the conversation.

 

[Tulipbee]

Hi Tulipbee,
Welcome to the forum.

You're in the Apologetics Forum.
It's necessary when you post here that you give the source of anything you write that does not come from your own ideas or beliefs.

The above does not sound like something you wrote yourself.
Please state the source from now on.

Thanks.

Thank you for the welcome and the reminder about providing sources. The information I shared is a general summary of common Calvinistic theological perspectives, and it's based on my understanding of the topic. I didn't pull it directly from a specific source, but it reflects the broader discussions within Calvinistic theology.

If there's a specific part you'd like me to delve into with more details or if you have further questions, feel free to ask. I'm here to engage in thoughtful discussions on matters of faith.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hey All,
The prodigal son is not a salvation story. It is the account of a believer caught up in the cares of the world.

The son assumes he is disowned by the father. But he was not. The son prepares this speech, but never gets to use it. Before the son was able to give his speech, his father ran to greet him hugged him, kissed him, and had a feast prepared in his honor. This was the exact opposite of what the son was expecting.

So, again, this is not a salvation account. The son represents a fallen believer.

The father had compassion for the son.
Compassion from the father restored the son's joy.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Thank You Taz.
I must say however that you are repeating a misconception that I have seen more than once already in regard to the parable that did not come from me .
Nowhere have I said the Father stopped loving the son?
Not sure where you got that .
Just as it is a fact that God Loves the whole world & there is nothing that anyone can do to cause God to stop loving the whole world, and it is God's desire that not even one person should perish, we know that the majority of humanity will reject the Father and be lost.
Jesus attests to the fact when he says " broad is the gate that leads to destruction & many are those who go thru it"
There will not be one person who will be in hell who can say they got there because the Father stopped loving them.
The term Jesus uses to describe the son's estate before he came to the Father is identical to the way Jesus describes me and you before we came to Him.
The Lord does not give muddled or mixed messages with regard to eternal life .

Luk 15:24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

Exact same term used by Jesus referring to us & the whole world unless we are saved:

Luk 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Life, thank you for sharing your perspective on the question of salvation and the contrasting views within theological traditions. It's indeed a topic that sparks diverse discussions within the Christian faith.

Your observation about the multifaceted ways God interacts with individuals in the Bible to bring them into salvation is thought-provoking. The variety of narratives, commands, challenges, and inspirations in Scripture does showcase the richness and complexity of God's redemptive work.

As you rightly pointed out, different theological traditions offer distinct lenses through which believers interpret these aspects of salvation. The tension between God's sovereignty and human responsibility is a profound and often debated aspect of Christian theology.

Wishing you a Merry Christmas as well! If you have any more thoughts or questions on this or any other topic, feel free to continue the conversation.

Blessed Christmas + New Year To You As Well !

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for the welcome and the reminder about providing sources. The information I shared is a general summary of common Calvinistic theological perspectives, and it's based on my understanding of the topic. I didn't pull it directly from a specific source, but it reflects the broader discussions within Calvinistic theology.

If there's a specific part you'd like me to delve into with more details or if you have further questions, feel free to ask. I'm here to engage in thoughtful discussions on matters of faith.

This also refers to your other post directed at me.
Here's what I do:
If I'm stating something Calvin believed but in my own words, I just write it out.

If I'm copying a paragraph from the institutes then I highlight it in bold, and then state the source at the end of the paragraph, stating book, chapter, paragraph. As you did above...

We also state verses from scripture when using the actual verse.....
and so on.

I think you understand now.
Also, I'd like to say that you'll be getting pushback from non-calvinists, as I'm sure you know.
But we do have a nice forum here and our members do their best to treat others with respect and civility.
If you experience any problem (which I doubt) please report the post and staff will handle it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Let me be the first.

In 1 John 2:19 John is talking about the gnostics.
They had already infiltrated the church by the time the gospels were written and even revelation.

1 John 2:26-27
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
John was telling the disciples that they were not to be taught by those that had abandoned the faith...
this is apostacy. He implored them to keep to the teachings of Jesus.

It is certainly possible for a born again believer, due to whatever circumstance, to fall away from the faith.

Matthew 24:10
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.

That is correct, sister. No one can be lead astray from something if they were not on the right path to begin with. Otherwise, this and countless other passages are a total waste of time, breath and effort on the Lord's part.

Not getting involved in yet another redundant OSAS debate, but thought I'd at least encourage you that your interpretive skills are pretty good.

Blessings in Christ,
- H

 

[7thMoon]

A saved person doesn't become unsaved, but a saved person who's unprofitable will lose their reward in the kingdom to come. "If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14-15)

Nonsense, σῴζει means that it rescues, not that it saves.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Nonsense, σῴζει means that it rescues, not that it saves.

"Saved person" is OP's choice of words, not mine.

 

[7thMoon]

"Saved person" is OP's choice of words, not mine.

It is a theological loaded word.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It is a theological loaded word. It smells like manure.

Yeah, it's too often abused and cheapened. "Saved" by and of itself means nothing, you gotta specify you're saved FROM what and saved FOR what.