What does the Word say about the Law of YHWH which, in reality, is the Law of Moses?

[jocor]

Why would we "wait' until Saturday to worship the Lord.

We can worship God any and every day of the week.

I totally agree. I worship Yahweh seven days a week. I don't wait until Saturday. However, The 7th day Sabbath has a special blessing upon it and was set apart for a specific reason. Yahweh will bless those who honor it. Worship, however, is not the only aspect of Sabbath. We are commanded to not work on that particular day, but rest from our physical labors. Worship all seven days if you so desire, but rest on the 7th day.

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. Romans 14:5-6

JLB

I already addressed this passage earlier.

 

[JLB]

Yahweh's commandments and laws passed down in oral form (Ex 16:28).

If they were passed down orally then why did God need to teach them to Abraham?

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
Genesis 26:5

Abraham walked in YHWH's laws and commandments 430 years before the law of Moses was added.


This is the way of faith, by hearing and obeying God's voice.

The law is not of faith.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I totally agree. I worship Yahweh seven days a week. I don't wait until Saturday. However, The 7th day Sabbath has a special blessing upon it and was set apart for a specific reason. Yahweh will bless those who honor it. Worship, however, is not the only aspect of Sabbath. We are commanded to not work on that particular day, but rest from our physical labors. Worship all seven days if you so desire, but rest on the 7th day.



I already addressed this passage earlier.

Yes, I agree. Rest on the Seventh day, not get the whole family to travel to a building to "worship".


JLB

 

[jocor]

If they were passed down orally then why did God need to teach them to Abraham?

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
Genesis 26:5

Abraham walked in YHWH's laws and commandments 430 years before the law of Moses was added.


This is the way of faith, by hearing and obeying God's voice.

The law is not of faith.


JLB

Gen 26:5 does not say God taught Abraham, although He did teach him through others that passed His laws down orally.

I agree, the way of faith is by hearing and obeying Yahweh's voice. I would add "by believing" as well.

The phrase, "the law is not faith" was given concerning Paul coming against obeying the law in order to be justified. Fath, however, as Yeshua said, is a "weightier matter of the Law."

 

[jocor]

Yes, I agree. Rest on the Seventh day, not get the whole family to travel to a building to "worship".

JLB

We are commanded to not forsake the gathering of ourselves together and we are commanded to have a holy convocation on that day. While we can do that where two or more are gathered in his name, it is very beneficial to have more brethren gathered together. It leads to a much better service in that more and varied prayers are offered, more insights into Scripture are offered, etc.

 

[JLB]

Gen 26:5 does not say God taught Abraham, although He did teach him through others that passed His laws down orally.

I don't find any such "oral" law passed down from "others' in the scriptures.

The Lord personally instructed Abraham to walk before him, and be blameless.

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.
Genesis 17:1

Without Abraham hearing God's voice, then of course Abraham could not obey the instructions the Lord gave him.

The scripture does teach us Abraham obeyed God's voice on many occasions.

Walking before Him in His presence is what we are also called to do, that we also may be called children of righteousness, just like Abraham was.

6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:6-9


JLB

 

[JLB]

We are commanded to not forsake the gathering of ourselves together and we are commanded to have a holy convocation on that day. While we can do that where two or more are gathered in his name, it is very beneficial to have more brethren gathered together. It leads to a much better service in that more and varied prayers are offered, more insights into Scripture are offered, etc.

That can be so, on Sunday or on Wednesday or Thursday.

The Sabbath is for rest.

 

[jocor]

I don't find any such "oral" law passed down from "others' in the scriptures.

The Lord personally instructed Abraham to walk before him, and be blameless.

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.
Genesis 17:1

Without Abraham hearing God's voice, then of course Abraham could not obey the instructions the Lord gave him.

The scripture does teach us Abraham obeyed God's voice on many occasions.

Walking before Him in His presence is what we are also called to do, that we also may be called children of righteousness, just like Abraham was.

6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
Galatians 3:6-9


JLB

Show me a verse where it says Yahweh taught Abraham His laws directly. Did Yahweh directly say to Abraham, "Do not murder, commit adultery, or steal"? How did Joseph know it was a sin to have relations with Potiphar's wife (Gen 39:9)? Did Yahweh tell him that directly. I don't think so. It was taught orally.

 

[jocor]

(Edited, ToS 2.4, rude and belittling. Obadiah)

 

[JLB]

The phrase, "the law is not faith" was given concerning Paul coming against obeying the law in order to be justified. Fath, however, as Yeshua said, is a "weightier matter of the Law."

12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." Galatians 3:12

The law of Moses required obedience to do all that was written in the law.

There is no faith in that because there is no God speaking to them in a list of rules.

The children of Israel did not want to hear God's Voice, the very thing which produces faith.

19 Then they said to Moses, "You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die." Exodus 20:19

Not so with Abraham, as he had a relationship with God, and obeyed His Voice.

 

[JLB]

Show me a verse where it says Yahweh taught Abraham His laws directly. Did Yahweh directly say to Abraham, "Do not murder, commit adultery, or steal"? How did Joseph know it was a sin to have relations with Potiphar's wife (Gen 39:9)? Did Yahweh tell him that directly. I don't think so. It was taught orally.

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:5

Abraham walked in God's presence and obeyed His Voice, His Commandments and His laws and precepts...

Obeyed His voice...

His commandments came from His voice.

His laws came from His voice.

His precepts came from His voice.

His charge came from His voice.

Abraham's faith came from His voice...

as it is written -

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


JLB

 

[JLB]

I choose to obey the "Thus saith Yahweh" commands, not the "Thus saith JLB" commands.

You just agreed we can worship God any day of the week?

Does God's word say The Sabbath is for rest?

 

[jocor]

12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." Galatians 3:12

The law of Moses required obedience to do all that was written in the law.

There is no faith in that because there is no God speaking to them in a list of rules.

The children of Israel did not want to hear God's Voice, the very thing which produces faith.

19 Then they said to Moses, "You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die." Exodus 20:19

Not so with Abraham, as he had a relationship with God, and obeyed His Voice.

I disagree. Yahweh speaks to us through His written word, whether it be through laws, prophecies, historical writings, etc. Faith hears what the Word says, then obeys it. The children of Israel heard the Word, but did not mix it with faith. They simply tried to follow a list of rules.

As Paul said, "Do we them make void the Law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law (Romans 3:31). The Law is not the enemy of faith. It is strengthened by faith.

 

[jocor]

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:5

Abraham walked in God's presence and obeyed His Voice, His Commandments and His laws and precepts...

Obeyed His voice...

His commandments came from His voice.

His laws came from His voice.

His precepts came from His voice.

His charge came from His voice.

Abraham's faith came from His voice...

as it is written -

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


JLB

I disagree again. Gen 26:5 does not tell us that Yahweh directly gave Abraham His laws. It simply says he obeyed His voice.

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of YHWH thy Elohim, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto YHWH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.​

Israel did not directly hear YHWH speak everything in the book of the Law. Most came through Moses. Since Moses was delivering YHWH's words to Israel, YHWH admonished them to listen to His voice.

Children are supposed to be taught Yahweh's ways through their parents. When I tell my son that Yahweh desires His people to keep the Sabbath Day holy, they are hearing Yahweh's voice through me. We also hear His voice through the Son, pastors, prophets, etc.

Abraham heard about Yahweh's commandments, statutes and laws indirectly and obeyed. Therefore, he heard Yahweh's voice and obeyed.

 

[jocor]

You just agreed we can worship God any day of the week?

Does God's word say The Sabbath is for rest?

Yes, we can worship any day of the week, but the Sabbath is not on any day of the week. If you choose to rest on Wednesday, that does not make Wednesday the Sabbath Day.

Yes, the Sabbath is for rest. We are to work six days (Sunday through Friday) and rest the 7th day.

 

[rthom7]

Jocor, your write so well, beautifully and profound....thank you...and agree with your reasoning... explaining of the 8 days after the first, as a Monday... was interesting...

Shalom

 

[jocor]

Jocor, your write so well, beautifully and profound....thank you...and agree with your reasoning... explaining of the 8 days after the first, as a Monday... was interesting...

Shalom

Thanks rthom7

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Colossians 2:17 refers to unfulfilled shadows (holy days) and Hebrews 10:1 refers to fulfilled shadows (sacrifices).

Isn't the Day of Atonement--the context of Hebrews--a Holy Day? In fact, I believe it is the highest of Holy Days on the Jewish calender, right?

 

[jocor]

Isn't the Day of Atonement--the context of Hebrews--a Holy Day? In fact, I believe it is the highest of Holy Days on the Jewish calender, right?

Yes. What is your point?

 

[JLB]

I disagree. Yahweh speaks to us through His written word, whether it be through laws, prophecies, historical writings, etc. Faith hears what the Word says, then obeys it. The children of Israel heard the Word, but did not mix it with faith. They simply tried to follow a list of rules.

As Paul said, "Do we them make void the Law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law (Romans 3:31). The Law is not the enemy of faith. It is strengthened by faith.

Brother, if YHWH speaks to us, then that is what produces faith, whether through scripture or through a child or through a person whom He sends to preach the Gospel.

However, just because it's scripture, does not mean it's a Rhema word from God.

As Paul said, "Do we them make void the Law through faith? God forbid, we establish the law (Romans 3:31). The Law is not the enemy of faith. It is strengthened by faith

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:27-28

Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

Establish - Strong's Number: 2476 -

1. to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
   1. to bid to stand by, [set up]
      1. in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin;
      2. to place
   2. to make firm, fix establish
      1. to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
      2. to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety
      3. to establish a thing, cause it to stand 1b
2. to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything
   1. to set or place in a balance
      1. to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)
3. to stand
   1. to stand by or near
      1. to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm 2a
   2. of the foundation of a building
   3. to stand
      1. continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or prepared
      2. to be of a steadfast mind
      3. of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver

The law of faith and the law of Moses balance each other, just as a pound of gold balances a pound of confederate money.

However confederate money like the law of Moses is obsolete.

Unless you believe in sacrificing animals for the atonement for sin.


JLB