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I noticed there was mention that the names of the week and months were pagan, so since everyone uses them the implication is that pagan holidays are OK if we keep other Gods out of them. That's not really true, and indeed I don't even use the names of these days in God's way of reckoning time.

In the calendar I use, I basically call (to myself) the days of the week by their number. I talk to myself a lot so if I'm saying I'm going back to work tomorrow, I'll say it's the first day of the week, so my work week is now starting. The exception is the 7th day I'll usually call it the Sabbath day (not Saturday). And the months I go by lunar. I know this is the end of the 7th month as it winds down after the feasts. I'll do this with any spiritual events.

But for point of reference, I use the pagan names for others to understand so there is not a mix-up in communication and for dating worldly documents. Today is the 18th of October, but if I'm writing this down, you'd be surprised how often I catch myself starting to write a "7" instead of 10/18 because to me it's the seventh month. I've even caught myself counting numbers out for the Gregorian month because it's confusing.

So if you ask me what months the Lord's feasts are on, I'll say the first and the seventh. I ran into someone already who used the Gregorian calendar and thought the first and seventh months meant the feasts were held in January and July! Thus, I'll only say March-April time frame, etc for those who don't understand the Lord's calendar such as that fellow who knew no better. It's like speaking French to a Frenchman although my native tongue is English.
 
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jasonc said:
again its a sin if the person worships them. when I have a calendar of janus month , am I not worshiping him? NO. the same could be said with those holidays.

luther celebrated Christmas. he is the father of Protestantism. does god then use idolaters to do his will then that didn't repent? if so then we need to switch bibles and become like the rcc.

but since we are on torah, where did it change that we cant execute those that have for that sin? think about god changed his laws?

the grace of the cross allows us not to do shabat or to do that. you are also picking what part of the torah to follow.
Click to expand...

No, the same cannot be said of the holidays. Calling a place or day by a specific name isn't worship. People who talk about Tuesday, January or Mars Hill are no more taking part in Pagan worship than everyone living in Christchurch, New Zealand is worshiping Christ, just by virtue of living in a city that happens to be named after him. Let me tell you about a conversation I once had with my next-door neighbor. This lady who used to live next door to me before I moved, was a Christian and new that I didn't celebrate Christmas. We were talking about that one time, and this is how the conversation went.

TOG: Imagine that you were a missionary, and that you were preaching to a tribe of people that had been totally isolated from the outside world, and didn't know anything of Christianity or any other major religion, and didn't celebrate any of the holidays we know, such as Christmas, or any holidays of other religions. But they have their own religion, with gods and goddesses of the wind, rain, fertility and so on, and each of these gods and goddesses has a holiday in his or her honor. What would you tell the people about those holidays?
  1. You must stop celebrating these Pagan feasts, and celebrate only Christian holidays.
  2. It's okay to celebrate those feasts, as long as you're not actually worshiping the old gods and goddesses, and you give the old holidays new Christian names and meanings.
  3. Go right ahead and keep doing what you always have, but keep the Christian holidays also.
LADY: (Without any hesitation) I'd tell them to stop all Paganism immediately! Such things are totally incompatible with Christianity.

TOG: Now imagine that you are the second missionary to preach to these people. The one before you had given new Christian names and meanings to the holidays they had, but they still had all the same customs, except for obviously non-Christian things like human sacrifice. Would you tell them that the other missionary had been wrong and they had to stop those celebrations and celebrate only the Christian ones, or would you go along with it to avoid confusing the people?

LADY: I would tell them the other missionary was wrong! Pagan worship can't be combined with Christianity.

TOG: Then why do you celebrate Christmas?

LADY: THAT'S DIFFERENT!!!

TOG: Why is it different?

LADY: It just is! I'm not worshiping Pagan gods. I'm doing it for Christ.

TOG: But that's what the other missionary said, and you said that was wrong.​

At this point, she basically ended the conversation, by saying that it just was different, and that she didn't see why I had such a problem with it. She had no answer for why it was different, it just was. Maybe somebody here can tell me why it's different. The Saturnalia and the Birthday of the Invincible Sun were Pagan festivals, during which idols were worshiped. Idolatry is a sin. Taking part in idolatrous customs and festivals was a sin when the church "baptized" it. How long does the church have to do something sinful before it becomes so right that people will actually cast doubt on your salvation if you don't do it. I once met that same lady in the conversation above two days before Christmas (this was before I stopped celebrating Christmas). She asked me whether I was going to the Christmas Eve service at church the next day, and I told her I wasn't. I said that the Christmas Eve services in the State Church were boring (trust me, they are). You have to get there an hour before time to get a seat, they sing songs nobody but the choir knows, so you can't sing along, and the liturgy is longer and even more boring than usual. She said she understood. "That kind of service isn't for everybody, and if you just want to stay at home and read your Bible and pray, then that's okay too", she said. About a year later, I was visiting her and her family some time around mid December, and she asked me if I had put my tree up yet. I told her I never had a Christmas tree. I don't see how having a dead tree in your living room has anything to do with Christ's birth. She responded with "I thought you were a Christian!" I found it rather interesting that she thought it was okay to skip the only Christian thing about Christmas, but if you skip the Pagan parts, then she doubts your salvation.

The TOG​
 
Hey TOG:

I hope that was a hypothetical conversation to show a point, because if it wasn't that lady was really screwed up! :lol
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Thanksgiving is by far the most Holy day for me.
It is celebrated in the manner of the Feast of Tabernacles, with Thanksgiving to God for the harvest.
Click to expand...
Easter, commonly called Resurrection Suday, is the big one for me. After I got saved it has been the only holiday tradition of the church that has had any spiritual stirrings connected with it for me.
 
TOG said:
I found it rather interesting that she thought it was okay to skip the only Christian thing about Christmas, but if you skip the Pagan parts, then she doubts your salvation.
Click to expand...
The logic of the church is amazing, isn't it? It'd be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
 
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This is just a short synopsis as to what scripture says about these two celebrations and posted just for your consideration.

Halloween

Allowing children to participate in the celebration of Halloween may appear to be quite harmless on the surface, but the spiritual implications are evil and we are instructed to stay away from anything evil.

Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

3Jn 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Birth of Jesus (Christmas)

Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his (Zacharias) ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived

According to Luke Chapter One Jesus was conceived six months after the conception of John the Baptist and was born nine months later in the months of September/October according to the Lunar Jewish Calendar.

Beginning with the first month, Nisan, in the spring (March-April), the schedule of the priest's courses would result with Zacharias serving during the 10th week of the year. This is because he was a member of the course of Abia (Abijah), the 8th course, and both the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15-21 Nisan) and Pentecost (6 Sivan) would have occurred before his scheduled duty. This places Zacharias' administration in the Temple as beginning on the second Sabbath of the third month, Sivan (May-June).
Having completed his Temple service on the third Sabbath of Sivan, Zacharias returned home and soon conceived his son John. So John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan.
 
for_his_glory said:
This is just a short synopsis as to what scripture says about these two celebrations and posted just for your consideration.

Halloween

Allowing children to participate in the celebration of Halloween may appear to be quite harmless on the surface, but the spiritual implications are evil and we are instructed to stay away from anything evil.

Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

3Jn 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Birth of Jesus (Christmas)

Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his (Zacharias) ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived

According to Luke Chapter One Jesus was conceived six months after the conception of John the Baptist and was born nine months later in the months of September/October according to the Lunar Jewish Calendar.

Beginning with the first month, Nisan, in the spring (March-April), the schedule of the priest's courses would result with Zacharias serving during the 10th week of the year. This is because he was a member of the course of Abia (Abijah), the 8th course, and both the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15-21 Nisan) and Pentecost (6 Sivan) would have occurred before his scheduled duty. This places Zacharias' administration in the Temple as beginning on the second Sabbath of the third month, Sivan (May-June).
Having completed his Temple service on the third Sabbath of Sivan, Zacharias returned home and soon conceived his son John. So John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan.
Click to expand...
I hear ya, I hear ya.
Get rid of Halloween, move Christmas into it's place.
No problem. The stores are already stocked with all their Christmas goodies.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I hear ya, I hear ya.
Get rid of Halloween, move Christmas into it's place.
No problem. The stores are already stocked with all their Christmas goodies.
Click to expand...

greed made from the name of Jesus :shame. My sister let her kids go trick or treating when they were little, but they had to dress as a character from the Bible and hand out Christian tracts. Just buy them a bag of candy and apples without the added razor blade and keep them safe.
 
Gary said:
What do you mean by "ban the celebration"? What was banned and who banned it"
Click to expand...
so cities are deciding to have all workers work on that day. I know that my job has mulled taking that day away and didn't, they wanted to have us give up a day. the first to go was the second day. its beause since most work that day anyway here. some places close. a lot don't. they just close early.
 
TOG said:
No, the same cannot be said of the holidays. Calling a place or day by a specific name isn't worship. People who talk about Tuesday, January or Mars Hill are no more taking part in Pagan worship than everyone living in Christchurch, New Zealand is worshiping Christ, just by virtue of living in a city that happens to be named after him. Let me tell you about a conversation I once had with my next-door neighbor. This lady who used to live next door to me before I moved, was a Christian and new that I didn't celebrate Christmas. We were talking about that one time, and this is how the conversation went.

TOG: Imagine that you were a missionary, and that you were preaching to a tribe of people that had been totally isolated from the outside world, and didn't know anything of Christianity or any other major religion, and didn't celebrate any of the holidays we know, such as Christmas, or any holidays of other religions. But they have their own religion, with gods and goddesses of the wind, rain, fertility and so on, and each of these gods and goddesses has a holiday in his or her honor. What would you tell the people about those holidays?
  1. You must stop celebrating these Pagan feasts, and celebrate only Christian holidays.
  2. It's okay to celebrate those feasts, as long as you're not actually worshiping the old gods and goddesses, and you give the old holidays new Christian names and meanings.
  3. Go right ahead and keep doing what you always have, but keep the Christian holidays also.
LADY: (Without any hesitation) I'd tell them to stop all Paganism immediately! Such things are totally incompatible with Christianity.

TOG: Now imagine that you are the second missionary to preach to these people. The one before you had given new Christian names and meanings to the holidays they had, but they still had all the same customs, except for obviously non-Christian things like human sacrifice. Would you tell them that the other missionary had been wrong and they had to stop those celebrations and celebrate only the Christian ones, or would you go along with it to avoid confusing the people?

LADY: I would tell them the other missionary was wrong! Pagan worship can't be combined with Christianity.

TOG: Then why do you celebrate Christmas?

LADY: THAT'S DIFFERENT!!!

TOG: Why is it different?

LADY: It just is! I'm not worshiping Pagan gods. I'm doing it for Christ.

TOG: But that's what the other missionary said, and you said that was wrong.​

At this point, she basically ended the conversation, by saying that it just was different, and that she didn't see why I had such a problem with it. She had no answer for why it was different, it just was. Maybe somebody here can tell me why it's different. The Saturnalia and the Birthday of the Invincible Sun were Pagan festivals, during which idols were worshiped. Idolatry is a sin. Taking part in idolatrous customs and festivals was a sin when the church "baptized" it. How long does the church have to do something sinful before it becomes so right that people will actually cast doubt on your salvation if you don't do it. I once met that same lady in the conversation above two days before Christmas (this was before I stopped celebrating Christmas). She asked me whether I was going to the Christmas Eve service at church the next day, and I told her I wasn't. I said that the Christmas Eve services in the State Church were boring (trust me, they are). You have to get there an hour before time to get a seat, they sing songs nobody but the choir knows, so you can't sing along, and the liturgy is longer and even more boring than usual. She said she understood. "That kind of service isn't for everybody, and if you just want to stay at home and read your Bible and pray, then that's okay too", she said. About a year later, I was visiting her and her family some time around mid December, and she asked me if I had put my tree up yet. I told her I never had a Christmas tree. I don't see how having a dead tree in your living room has anything to do with Christ's birth. She responded with "I thought you were a Christian!" I found it rather interesting that she thought it was okay to skip the only Christian thing about Christmas, but if you skip the Pagan parts, then she doubts your salvation.

The TOG​
Click to expand...
what is the origin of the star of david? is it in the bible ? or the kaballah? if its the later then its very much a pagan symbol. my point is that I know you don't worship it. frankly because my aunt is raised in the temple and may convert to Christ. because she is mentally limited in capacities and cant live without being a ward of the state. I would tell here to avoid messianic Judaism. why? because its possible she wouldn't know the difference tween what she left and what she is coming to. she would be fluent in Hebrew and still can recite her Hebrew. so why would I tempt her to be that way again? if I was a drunk, I wouldn't quit to drink it in moderation. the temptation Is too strong.

may I ask if Christmas is akin to the worship of ball with the Heshem. then are those that celebrate it with the full ordeal damned?
honest answer. yay or nay.
 
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