H
Hitch
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Valid questions Smaller, start a thread.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
smaller
Member
No, it's much easier than that. Does he (or YOU) agree with the statement of faith on this matter at this site regarding Satan?
Yes or no will do just fine. Here is the statement. I agree with it entirely.
"We believe in a personal devil, called Satan, who, along with all his angels, called demons or evil spirits, are destined to spend eternity in hell, and now seek to deceive the world, defeat the believers, and destroy the work of God, but can be resisted by believers, who are protected by God and the intercession of Jesus Christ our Lord."
You will notice that the terms are 'evil spirits' which obviously can NOT be seen and which the TEXT does address from cover to cover. You will also notice the term 'are destined' as in that has not happened YET.
So again, I would appreciate an immediate clear up on this exact matter. It may explain why the resistance to what I've been posting.
s
smaller
Member
As to Mystery Babylon and the book of Revelation in general 'most' Christian views of that document revolve around our MUTUAL HOPE in the eventual and total eradication of our mutual adversaries, the devil and his messengers.
And most also do not believe that has yet transpired.
s
And most also do not believe that has yet transpired.
s
Stormcrow
Member
I don’t want people to be confused by someone else's appeal to out-of-context passages here as proof of an otherwise indefensible view. The simple truth is this: that for almost every verse in Revelation there is an Old Testament verse or passage that explains it. I have already demonstrated that principle here:
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=35460&p=602596&viewfull=1#post602596
and now I'll follow up with the OT keys for understanding these recently quoted verses:
{15} And he *said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. Revelation 17:15 (NASB)
And here is the OT key for understanding this verse:
{5} How fair are your tents, O Jacob, Your dwellings, O Israel! {6} "Like valleys that stretch out, Like gardens beside the river, Like aloes planted by the LORD, Like cedars beside the waters. {7} "Water will flow from his buckets, And his seed will be by many waters, And his king shall be higher than Agag, And his kingdom shall be exalted. Numbers 24:5-7 (NASB)
By the time Revelation was written, the children of Israel had been dispersed throughout the known world, as reflected in this greeting, from James:
{1} James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings. James 1:1 (NASB)
Revelation was written about judgment soon to come upon apostate Israel and its corrupt priesthood.
{2} And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. Revelation 18:2 (NASB)
The keys for understanding this passage can also be found in the OT wherever God spoke through the prophets to pronounce judgment and desolation upon a nation.
A prophecy of the fall of Babylon to the Medes:
{21} But desert creatures will lie down there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches also will live there, and shaggy goats will frolic there. Isaiah 13:21 (NASB)
{10} It will not be quenched night or day; Its smoke will go up forever. From generation to generation it will be desolate; None will pass through it forever and ever. {11} But pelican and hedgehog will possess it, And owl and raven will dwell in it; And He will stretch over it the line of desolation And the plumb line of emptiness. Isaiah 34:10-11 (NASB)
John – in the Spirit – is prophesying of the desolation that will befall Jerusalem (as it had in the past) in the same prophetic voice that Christ Himself used with the chief priests and Pharisees:
{38} "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:38 (NASB)
{2} And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down." Matthew 24:2 (NASB)
{43} "For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, {44} and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." Luke 19:43-44 (NASB)
Revelation is the last apostolic word ever written on the Olivet Discourse, given by God Himself through Christ and the angel Gabriel. It reveals the glorified Christ in heaven preparing to wage war against those who acted violently toward the covenant (Leviticus 26, Deut. 28, Matthew 21:33-46).
It is – at its heart – a very Jewish and Old Testament book.
I hope that some are beginning to see this.
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=35460&p=602596&viewfull=1#post602596
and now I'll follow up with the OT keys for understanding these recently quoted verses:
{15} And he *said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. Revelation 17:15 (NASB)
And here is the OT key for understanding this verse:
{5} How fair are your tents, O Jacob, Your dwellings, O Israel! {6} "Like valleys that stretch out, Like gardens beside the river, Like aloes planted by the LORD, Like cedars beside the waters. {7} "Water will flow from his buckets, And his seed will be by many waters, And his king shall be higher than Agag, And his kingdom shall be exalted. Numbers 24:5-7 (NASB)
By the time Revelation was written, the children of Israel had been dispersed throughout the known world, as reflected in this greeting, from James:
{1} James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings. James 1:1 (NASB)
Revelation was written about judgment soon to come upon apostate Israel and its corrupt priesthood.
{2} And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. Revelation 18:2 (NASB)
The keys for understanding this passage can also be found in the OT wherever God spoke through the prophets to pronounce judgment and desolation upon a nation.
A prophecy of the fall of Babylon to the Medes:
{21} But desert creatures will lie down there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches also will live there, and shaggy goats will frolic there. Isaiah 13:21 (NASB)
{10} It will not be quenched night or day; Its smoke will go up forever. From generation to generation it will be desolate; None will pass through it forever and ever. {11} But pelican and hedgehog will possess it, And owl and raven will dwell in it; And He will stretch over it the line of desolation And the plumb line of emptiness. Isaiah 34:10-11 (NASB)
John – in the Spirit – is prophesying of the desolation that will befall Jerusalem (as it had in the past) in the same prophetic voice that Christ Himself used with the chief priests and Pharisees:
{38} "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:38 (NASB)
{2} And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down." Matthew 24:2 (NASB)
{43} "For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, {44} and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." Luke 19:43-44 (NASB)
Revelation is the last apostolic word ever written on the Olivet Discourse, given by God Himself through Christ and the angel Gabriel. It reveals the glorified Christ in heaven preparing to wage war against those who acted violently toward the covenant (Leviticus 26, Deut. 28, Matthew 21:33-46).
It is – at its heart – a very Jewish and Old Testament book.
I hope that some are beginning to see this.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sinthesis
Member
Just wondering... How do you know it's Gabriel?
Stormcrow
Member
My bad...was thinking of something else (being Christmas season) when I wrote that. Here's how the verse in Revelation reads:
{1} The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)
I suppose it could've been Gabriel. Or not.
Happy New Year!
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