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Bible Study Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

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Lord's Day???

Hello
Why did they kill Jesus? What was He accused of? Sabbath breaking!
What am I accused of Sabbath keeping! Will I be killed for it?

What day is the Lord's Day??? Mark 2:28 KJV is very clear: "Therefore the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath." The ridiculousness of using Revelation 1:10 to prove that SUNday is the Lord's day is like proving my ancestors were monkeys.

A very surprising revelation about this context is that in verse 27 Jesus states that the sabbath was made for the jews only and not the jews for the sabbath?!?!? NOT! the Sabbath was made for MAN!!! Not only the Jews.
 
Re: Lord's Day???

Jeff W said:
Hello
Why did they kill Jesus? What was He accused of? Sabbath breaking!
What am I accused of Sabbath keeping! Will I be killed for it?

What day is the Lord's Day??? Mark 2:28 KJV is very clear: "Therefore the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath." The ridiculousness of using Revelation 1:10 to prove that SUNday is the Lord's day is like proving my ancestors were monkeys.

A very surprising revelation about this context is that in verse 27 Jesus states that the sabbath was made for the jews only and not the jews for the sabbath?!?!? NOT! the Sabbath was made for MAN!!! Not only the Jews.

********
Kind of like Babylonian confusion huh? :sad

But surely you know that on this site alone, that there 'must be' many other Sabbath hating Ph. D.'s (arm of flesh) confusing foolishness?
See Dan. 7:25.

So hang in ther, for [your posts] :fadein: will be on the bottom of a pile!

--Elijah
 
They did not crucify the Lord for braking the Sabbath, they sought his crucifixion because he claimed to be the Son of God which was to make himself equal to God!
 
The Sabbath shall be observed following the return of Christ, when the fullness of the New Covenant shall spread over all the earth (Is. 66:23).


The Lord's annual Sabbaths, in fact, shall be observed following the return of Christ, when the fullness of the New Covenant shall spread over all the earth (Zechariah 14:16-19).
 
evanman said:
They did not crucify the Lord for braking the Sabbath, they sought his crucifixion because he claimed to be the Son of God which was to make himself equal to God!

***
Good point! Yet, it was Christ that said "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" :fadein: Did these ones that Loved Christ kill Him, or was it the other professed CLASS of 'g'od servers?? :crying:

The question might not be understood by you?? Notice the WORD [*LOVE].


---Elijah
 
The Almighty's Law is to Salvation.

Obedience is the only reliable evidence of faith.

When questioned about the way to eternal life, the Saviour referred his enquirer to obedience. Matt.19: 16 -- And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
 
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
 
evanman said:
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

*****
Hi, if it was not such a serious thing, I might smile! See 2 Cor, 4:1-2. In a few posts above there were some telling us that these Jew's other remarks were not the Truth of the Word of God! And now we see that there 'accusation' are the Word of God? Sure sounds like catholic jesuits posting to me! :sad

1/2 Gospel is NO GOSPEL!

Or are you now saying that Christ was an open blantant sinner? SHAME ON YOUR EVIL POST!! See Heb. 6:6!


---Elijah
 
Bob10 said:
The Almighty's Law is to Salvation.

Obedience is the only reliable evidence of faith.

When questioned about the way to eternal life, the Saviour referred his enquirer to obedience. Matt.19: 16 -- And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.

*****
Well Bob, we believe in Rom. 8:14 also right? I live in the Gaffney S.C. area, (USA) what state & city are you near? And are you too on a God 'leading' journey of just passing through? ---Elijah
 
When questioned about the way to eternal life, the Saviour referred his enquirer to obedience. Matt.19: 16 -- And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
Matt. 19:18, " He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, (19) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
  • NOWHERE in the N.T. gospel of Jesus Christ are we told to "remember the Sabbath to keep it holy". It is the ONLY one of the 10 commandments NOT retold or commanded in the N.T.
Why is the sabbath the only commandment that is "throughout your generations" which is of a temporary nature?
  • We find the early church worshipped on the first day (Acts 20:7), Paul worshipped on Sunday (Acts 20:16-Acts 24:11). Nowhere does it ever say that the early church kept the sabbath. As I have already pointed out in this thread, the Lord's day IS Sunday. He died on a Friday and was raised on Sunday.
 
Let me just say that, you can tell that [posting] that is recorded in the heavenly record books for your day in Judgement, to Christ. Ecc. 12:12-13, James 2:8-12, Isa. 8:20, & 1 John 2:4 But, one can rest assured that the reason, is that these will be lost if there is no change, and they will be in heaven ONLY because of [their Record books]. The Bottom Line [REASON] why, is clearly seen in John 14:15-- "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". But surely one has got to be recreated with the MOTIVE OF LOVE first, huh?---Elijah
 
Collier said:
Matt. 19:18, " He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, (19) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
  • NOWHERE in the N.T. gospel of Jesus Christ are we told to "remember the Sabbath to keep it holy". It is the ONLY one of the 10 commandments NOT retold or commanded in the N.T.

Really? Where is the specific command in this verse to 'not have any God's before me', or 'don't take the name of the Lord thy God in vain?' I guess that means we can do swear against God and worship other idols. Apparently you neglect "Love God and your neighbor. Upon these two laws hang all the laws of the prophets." The first four are our responsibility to God, and the last 6 to man. According to your interpretation, only our duty to man is mentioned here. And you neglect James which says that if you break one commandment, you break them all.

Collier said:
Why is the sabbath the only commandment that is "throughout your generations" which is of a temporary nature?
  • We find the early church worshipped on the first day (Acts 20:7), Paul worshipped on Sunday (Acts 20:16-Acts 24:11). Nowhere does it ever say that the early church kept the sabbath. As I have already pointed out in this thread, the Lord's day IS Sunday. He died on a Friday and was raised on Sunday.
Christ resurrecting on Sunday no more makes it 'the Lord's Day' then Friday makes it holy because the plan of salvation was completed on that day.

Rather, the first day of the week was 'business as usual' to all the NT Christians. Your support for Paul's observance of Sunday (nevermind to prove that he 'worshipped' on Sunday) is so thin I could strain soup through it. Yet the Sabbath was observed by Christ and His disciples (even Paul), Christ did miracles on Sabbath and brought meaning to it, the early church fathers and even the Church in Jerusalem kept Sabbath until the 4th century.

First of all, when Paul preached, he was preaching to them because he was going on a trip to Troas. As a matter of fact, he journeyed on Sunday (a strange thing to do on such a Holy day). The point of the story was to show the miracle of the poor dude who fell out of the window. Acts 2 shows that the followers of Christ got together 'whenever they could' to break bread. That would be on all days of the week, not just Sunday.

The fact is, there is WAY more evidence and command in the scripture to show the validity of the Sabbath and not first day observance.
 
The fact is, there is WAY more evidence and command in the scripture to show the validity of the Sabbath and not first day observance.
OK, show me where the NT church worshipped on the sabbath?
  • Also, why is the sabbath commandment the only one not commanded in the NT? Ya'll post verses like "if ye love me keep my commandments" which I agree with but show me where Christ commanded me to keep the sabbath?
 
Collier said:
The fact is, there is WAY more evidence and command in the scripture to show the validity of the Sabbath and not first day observance.
OK, show me where the NT church worshipped on the sabbath?
  • Also, why is the sabbath commandment the only one not commanded in the NT? Ya'll post verses like "if ye love me keep my commandments" which I agree with but show me where Christ commanded me to keep the sabbath?

your problem here is that you insist their needs to be a specific commandment to worship on Sabbath. The onus falls on you to prove that with Sunday. The Sabbath was accepted as truth and binding. There was no need for a NT reiteration to command it. The fact is, Christ made no mention to NOT to keep it, but rather kept himself and made it more meaningful "It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". The majority of Christ's healings took place on the Sabbath to show the importance of it in the lives of people, not to break it. He came to do away with the legalism of the Pharisees who made the Sabbath a burden, not a delight. He came to show that man wasn't made for the Sabbath, but the other way around. The Sabbath came first for the betterment of all mankind, not for man to come and make legalistic rules to burden the people with.

And that day was the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on..And the returned and prepared spices and ointments and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment - Luke 2:54, 56

Strange thing for Christ's followers to do when He OBVIOUSLY told them the Sabbath was to be done away with and Sunday instituted in its place.

But when they (Paul and his company) deaprated from Perga, they came to Anitoch in Pisidia and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down - Acts 13:14

Perfect time to set the Jews straight. Afterall, Paul had no qualms clashing over circumcision, why not the Sabbath? But no, Paul goes on to preach to the Jews about other things like the baptism of repentance, and the resurrection of Christ! Perfect time to say that the resurrection of Christ instituted Sunday as the new day. However, there is not one mention, nor any hint of Sabbath controversy here.

Notice verse 42 and 44

And after the Jews were gone out of the synagoguethe Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath...and the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God

Perfect time for Paul to set the Gentiles straight! The Jews were gone! Why didn't Paul let them know that this Jewish observance of Sabbath doesn't apply to them. Instead, we see the pagan, sun-worshipping Gentiles appealing for Paul to preach to them next Sabbath! Did Paul honestly need the Jewish synagogue and the seventh day to preach to the pagans? Highly unlikely. Rather, no matter where he went it was a part of his custom. Why? Because he obviously observed it.

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures - Acts 17:2

Again, is the Sabbath's obliteration preached to these wayward Jews? Nope. Rather Christ's suffering death and resurrection (an act that supposedly abolished the Sabbath) is preached and nothing else. And if you want to say, "Well of course, because if he wanted to preach to the Jews, he'd have to go to the synagogue on Sabbath" Again, see Acts 13. Look at Acts 16 too.
And from there, to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia and a colony and we were in that city abiding certain days. And of the sabbath we went out of the city by a rivers ide where prayer was wont to be made and we sat down and spake unto the women which resorted thither - Acts 16:12, 13

Strange. Preaching in a pagan land to most likely pagan women on the Sabbath. Where are all the sermons considering the importance of doing away with a 4000 year old, God given law and instituting a new day of worship?

We have chapter after chapter of the Jews freaking out over Paul's doing away with circumcision, and yet NO verses directly disputing the Sabbath, no controversy from the Jews concerning the Sabbath, much more important than circumcision. This is obvious because the Sabbath was already taken for granted in the NT.

Christ and Paul's example of Sabbath observance should be enough, especially with NO hint of worship, command or observation of the first day of the week.
 
Well Bob, we believe in Rom. 8:14 also right?

Hi Elijah message,

The Spirit helps us to OBEY God's laws and His ways.

Ro
8:14 --

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


Eze
36:27
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.


Jer
31:31 - 33 --
"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.....

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

*******************************************************

When Jeremiah speaks of a "new covenant," he is not referring to the "content" of the covenant; God is not changing his will for his people. It is not the covenant that must be changed, but human nature.

If the covenant is written on our hearts, then we will spontaneously do God's will, and the glorious result will be: "I will be their God, and they shall be my people." No one will have to be taught God's will, for everyone will know God and God's will.
 
Collier

Also, why is the sabbath commandment the only one not commanded in the NT? Ya'll post verses like "if ye love me keep my commandments" which I agree with but show me where Christ commanded me to keep the sabbath?

I could also say: show me where Christ commanded us to keep Sunday.


Since the Sabbath was considered by the Jews to be so importantâ€â€as important as all the rest of the law put together in some circles (see above)â€â€if Jesus and His apostles had taught and practiced the total abrogation of the Sabbath commandment as is often claimed, then the religious controversy and disputations should perforce have filled the gospels, the book of Acts and all the epistles. There is no such enormous controversy in the New Testament records, and therefore we can only conclude that the Sabbath was not abrogated!


This would also explain why we do not find repeated reaffirmations of the Sabbath as a command of God...... To have emphasized Sabbath-keeping in the New Testament would have been like the proverbial "carrying coals to Newcastle" or "taking ice to the Eskimos in winter. "


The issue that Jesus (and later the apostles) addressed was not whether to observe the Sabbathâ€â€it had always been revered as the fourth of the Ten Commandmentsâ€â€but rather how to observe the Sabbath in the light of the restrictive concepts of the day.

excerpts come from this article:

Collier, the author of this article addresses your question, about half way through the NT section.

"Aside from the actual New Testament verses in which Sabbath observance is directly mentioned, the question of why the Sabbath law is not repeated as a direct command must be addressed."

.


http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
 
Collier said:
Bob,
  • I looked at the link and to be fair I am posting one for you and everyone else to consider.
http://www.bible.ca/sabbath.htm

Yes, I've looked at this site many times. Personally, it is lacking in reasonable arguments, spending most of its time knocking down other's arguments rather than trying to bolster their own.

The best arguments that I've found (and even that that is not saying anything) in favor of Sunday/Sabbath abrogation is from former SDA Dale Ratzlaff. However, Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi wipes the floor with him in defending Sabbath and doing away with some of the stretching arguments most Sunday keepers try and use.



History shows that Sabbath was kept by Christians throughout the first 4 centuries (and not because they were ignorant Christians as cj has implied). Sunday didn't begin to rear its ugly head until after the first century and even then it was limited in reason and use as compared to the Sabbath

So rather than admit that the Sunday observance is an ecclesiastical ordinance and not a biblical practice or mandate, Sunday keepers have to resort to vague, philsophical arguments that are deeper than black holes and stretched so far to make some sort of link to the first day of the week. "i.e. the waving of the sheaves is first fruits of Christ", "Sunday is the eighth day representing the first day of the Son rising as the sun rose on the first day" yada yada.

To me this is proof enough that Sunday cannot be proven or gleaned from the scriptures especially when Sabbath is kept and promoted throughout both the OT and the NT by Christ and the disciples. Personally, I would rather follow the Word of God and the example of Christ and the apostles and not the reasonings of Anti-Semite Sunday promoters like Barnabas or Justin Martyr.
 
John wrote Rev. in 96 AD, 26 years after the destruction of Jerusalem. The warning of Christ about the Matt. 24's Sabbath flight, and all the times that the Sabbath was kept etc., could, & would have been required to be corrected if there was the slightest hint of any change! And that is not needed in the Truth of the Godhead's INSPIRATION!!

Think of Peter's vision from God, THRICE he was told the same vision, ..rise and eat! But Peter stated not so Lord, for I have NEVER...!! Surely Peter KNEW that God did not mean to reverse a truth! So he knew that the vision had another meaning! But people just jump at ANY THING AND EVERY THING to do as they please!

But the point on John in Rev. is.. he (John) had plenty of time to tidey up any misunderstanding about the Lord's Set Aside For Holy Use Blessed 7Th. Day Sabbath, if the Holy Spirit wanted such to take place!! And surely the Holy Spirit that was given to 'bring back to remembrance' things forgotten, would have done so if it had been needed to be so!


Just think of what the ten commandment would look like with the two tables of stone that God Himself wrote, with the 4th Covenant Commandment of the first table removed?? See James 2:8-12, Isa. 8:20, 1 John 2:4, Dan. 7:25 for those who choose to go along with this!

---Elijah
 
guibox:
  • I am not defending a "Sunday sabbath". No where have I stated such. If you will go back to the link I provided and start with the first step of the four views you will find the truth.
Good day!
 

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