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Bible Study Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

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Elijah message said:
Well Vic, there in lies your problem. You say things such as the above and it seems that you have not read the post on the subject! You say: "I still would like to know, how does one get three day and three nights ...''...

...Now you are having a [personal] conversation with me, and about me sounding like the Rev. 17:5 Whore & Her Daughters?? Then you close with something like it really does not matter on this subject??? If you are not talking in riddles? Then if this subject is that un/inportant to you, how then does my belief in this 3 day thing make me like Rev. 17:5??

---Elijah
Hey, I'm not talking in riddles. And I was being sincere when I said, "The bottom line is...it really doesn't matter when He died and was resurrected. What matters most is that HE DID" But the debate continues regardless. I did read your post and I found that that interpretation totally disregard what Jesus said in Matthew 12:40. And the reason is this...
Bob10 said:
Jesus said He would be dead for 3 days and 3 nights (Matt 12:40).

The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights is not disputed; because that was the common way of reckoning, just as it was when used of years.

But, when the number of "nights" is stated as well as the number of "days", then the expression ceases to be an idiom, and becomes a literal statement of fact.

N.B. I said what I said because for the longest time, it was you and JayT that hounded me for saying Sunday was the Lord's day. Now I find you posting, defending that very same position. Quite frankly, it took me by surprise. You say this an Adventist position, yet here we find Bob10, who I believe is a SDA, saying Sunday is not the Lord's day and Friday is not the day He was crucified.
 
guibox said:
Vic said:
All we know is that the women appeared maybe by sunrise. That is a 12 hours timespan at best. (Seventh day sunset to first day sunrise)
Perhaps you misunderstood my question. If the women went to rest because the sabbath was drawing nigh, how do you explain the two day gap from when Christ was taken down and buried on Wednesday? How is that? Either Christ died and was buried on Wednesday or he hung on the cross until Friday sundown when the Jews took Him down because of the Sabbath. Please explain.
Vic said:
This is on topic, for if we can determine when He was crucified, we can also determine about when He rose.
No its not, because when Christ rose has nothing to do on whether or not the day is to be considered holy. Christ rising on Saturday doesn't make it the Sabbath anymore than Him rising on Sunday makes it a new "Lord's Day" or worship.
Thanks for your time and patience in responding. You are correct. I stand corrected, this is a bit off-topic, sort of, but it's the path the thread took. Hopefully, we can end it with this post. Of course, you are entitled to respond. :biggrin

Vic said:
John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

So if Christ was crucified on the Wednesday, how could he still be on the cross on Friday? Or are you saying that the 'sabbath' in question wasn't the seventh day sabbath but just a 'holy day sabbath'? Isn't that fairly speculative when the next thought is the women going to "rest on the Sabbath according to the commandment", thus speaking of Friday night?

How do you jump from a holy Wednesday Sabbath to the seventh day sabbath? Again, I ask, where did the two days in the middle go to?
Don't know if I can answer that in my own words, but first, lets get some Biblical facts straight. Bear with me. 8-)

We can easily establish that there were two 'sabbaths' the week Jesus was crucified. One being the weekly and the other the High. (Passover)

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

We can also conclude from Scripture that Jesus was crucified just prior to the start of the High Sabbath.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

That Sabbath couldn't have started on Friday sunset, because if we count back six days (see John 21 again) it would put Jesus traveling to Bethany on the previously weekly Sabbath. :o A Thursday resurrection doesn't work because that would mean He was resurrected Sunday after sunset. Scripture doesn't support that either. (assuming we take John 12:40 as being a literal three days and three nights.

The only day that fits a literal interpretation of Jesus' words AND takes onto account that there were TWO Sabbaths that week IS a Wednesday crucifixion.

Now, I will let this commentary answer your question about the woman and your alleged missing days...
Therefore, this view states, the only explanation that does not violate the biblical account of the women and the spices and holds to a literal understanding of Matthew 12:40, is that Christ was crucified on Wednesday. The Sabbath that was a high holy day (Passover) occurred on Thursday, the women purchased spices (after that) on Friday and returned and prepared the spices on the same day, they rested on Saturday which was the weekly Sabbath, then brought the spices to the tomb early Sunday.

He was buried near sundown on Wednesday, which began Thursday in the Jewish calendar. Using a Jewish calendar, you have Thursday night (night one), Thursday day (day one), Friday night (night two), Friday day (day two), Saturday night (night three), Saturday day (day three). We don't know exactly when He rose, but we do know that it was before sunrise on Sunday (John 20:1, Mary Magdalene came "while it was still dark" and the stone was rolled away and she found Peter and told him that "they have taken away the Lord out of the tomb") so He could have risen as early as just after sunset Saturday evening, which began the first day of the week to the Jews.
http://www.gotquestions.org/three-days.html

I really don't have much more to say about this. I think Bob and myself have given plenty of info and links. And I'm sorry if I caused this topic to stray off course. I just hope that all take our info with a open mind and heart and don't let tradition or orthodoxy get in the way of what we believe to be the Truth on this matter.

God bless,
Vic
 
Vic said:
Elijah message said:
Well Vic, there in lies your problem. You say things such as the above and it seems that you have not read the post on the subject! You say: "I still would like to know, how does one get three day and three nights ...''...

...Now you are having a [personal] conversation with me, and about me sounding like the Rev. 17:5 Whore & Her Daughters?? Then you close with something like it really does not matter on this subject??? If you are not talking in riddles? Then if this subject is that un/inportant to you, how then does my belief in this 3 day thing make me like Rev. 17:5??

---Elijah
Hey, I'm not talking in riddles. And I was being sincere when I said, "The bottom line is...it really doesn't matter when He died and was resurrected. What matters most is that HE DID" But the debate continues regardless. I did read your post and I found that that interpretation totally disregard what Jesus said in Matthew 12:40. And the reason is this...
Bob10 said:
Jesus said He would be dead for 3 days and 3 nights (Matt 12:40).

The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights is not disputed; because that was the common way of reckoning, just as it was when used of years.

But, when the number of "nights" is stated as well as the number of "days", then the expression ceases to be an idiom, and becomes a literal statement of fact.

N.B. I said what I said because for the longest time, it was you and JayT that hounded me for saying Sunday was the Lord's day. Now I find you posting, defending that very same position. Quite frankly, it took me by surprise. You say this an Adventist position, yet here we find Bob10, who I believe is a SDA, saying Sunday is not the Lord's day and Friday is not the day He was crucified.

**********
Hi Victor: (me, Elijah again) 'Hounded you?????' :sad :crying: You are one of the few of all sites that I at times address by your name. That meant that I had thought that we could talk freely? Guess that I was the party confussed here.

Somewhere along the line YOU are confused with what I have said, or meant to say. Rev. 1:10 is not Sun Stuff! It is 7th Day Sabbath TRUTH! (see Mark 2:27-28 & Mark 7:7!) About these other two birds? Perhaps they are Adventist??? But even saying that proves what?? You and others go to 'professed' Adventist stuff to learn Virgin Doctrines of Adventism?? Or even openly claimed as ex/adventist.

Perhaps you need to take a break (that is a 'true' loving personal suggestion) and just relax some? Remember that it was Christ that told [Saul] in Acts 9:5 that it was hard for him to kick against the 'pricks' of the Holy Spirit. And TRUELY you ARE confused, regardless if it is caused by some of us on the other end? See 2 Peter 3:16-17.

Surely, you do not want to be like another moderator on this site, and not be able to admit to OPEN mistakes, as seen in his one thread. You see, TRUE profession of Christ, will ALWAYS LEAD to His Truth in UNITY. ---Elijah
 
I'm just glad He did rise from the dead. The actual day , date and time are not as important.
 
evanman said:
I'm just glad He did rise from the dead. The actual day , date and time are not as important.

*********
Is not important you 'two' say? Perhaps one should be sincerely honest from my end [also], by saying that for my understanding, there is nothing that the Master has recorded that is not important! Earths last seven times for one! Dan. 12:1 and then what? And even so I was accused of sounding like the ones of Rev. 17:5 because of my belief of a 6th. day crucifixion??

---Elijah
 
evanman said:
I'm just glad He did rise from the dead. The actual day , date and time are not as important.

Well, the Spirit seemed to think they were.

Matthew  26 : 2, "You know that after two days the Passover takes place, and the Son of Man is being delivered up to be crucified."

...... The Passover was a type of Christ (1 Cor. 5:7). Christ was made the Lamb of God that God may pass over us, the sinners, as portrayed in type by the Passover in Exo. 12. For the fulfillment of the type, Christ as the Passover lamb had to be killed on the day of the Passover.

In the type, during the four days preceding the day of the Passover, the Passover lamb had to be examined in relation to its perfection (Exo. 12:3-6). Before His crucifixion Christ came to Jerusalem for the last time, six days before the Passover (John 12:1), and likewise was examined by the Jewish leaders for a few days (21:23--22:46). No blemish was found in Him, and He was proved to be perfect and qualified to be the Passover lamb for us. See note 371 in Mark 12.


Matthew  26 : 17, "Now on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus, saying, Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the passover?"

........ The Feast of Unleavened Bread is a feast of seven days (Lev. 23:6). It is also called the Passover (Luke 22:1; Mark 14:1). Actually, the Feast of the Passover was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Exo. 12:6, 11, 15-20; Lev. 23:5).


Matthew  27 : 62, "On the next day, which is the day after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered unto Pilate,"

.... This was the day of preparation, Friday, when the passover was prepared (26:19; John 19:14).


Mark  10 : 1, "And He rose up from there and came into the borders of Judea and beyond the Jordan; and again crowds came together to Him, and as He was accustomed, again He taught them."


.......... The Slave-Savior ministered in His gospel service for over three years in the despised region of Galilee (see note 141 par. 2, in ch. 1), far from the holy temple and the holy city, the place where He had to die for the accomplishing of God's eternal plan. As the Lamb of God (John 1:29), He had to be offered to God at Mount Moriah, where Abraham offered Isaac and enjoyed God's provision of a ram as a substitute for his son (Gen. 22:2, 9-14) and where the temple was built in Jerusalem (2 Chron. 3:1). It had to be there that He would be delivered, according to the counsel determined by the Trinity of the Godhead (Acts 2:23), to the Jewish leaders (9:31; 10:33) and be rejected by them as the builders of God's building (8:31; Acts 4:11). It had to be there that He would be crucified according to the Roman form of capital punishment (John 18:31-32 and note; 19:6, 14-15) to fulfill the type concerning the kind of death He would die (Num. 21:8-9; John 3:14). Moreover, according to Daniel's prophecy (Dan. 9:24-26), that very year was the year that Messiah (Christ) was to be cut off (killed). Furthermore, as the Passover lamb (1 Cor. 5:7), He had to be killed in the month of the Passover (Exo. 12:1-11). Hence, He had to go to Jerusalem (v. 33; 11:1, 11, 15, 27; John 12:12) before the Passover (John 12:1; Mark 14:1) that He might die there on the day of the Passover (14:12-17; John 18:28) at the place and the time foreordained by God.


Mark 12:37, "David himself calls Him Lord, and how is He his son? And the great crowd heard Him gladly."

.......... In the type, the Passover lamb was examined for four days before it was killed (Exo. 12:3-6). The Slave-Savior also, as the real Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7), was examined for four days before He was killed. He came to Bethany six days before the Passover (John 12:1; Mark 11:1). On the next day He came into Jerusalem and went back to Bethany (John 12:12; Mark 11:11). On the third day He came to Jerusalem again (11:12-15) and began to be examined according to the Jewish law by the leaders of the Jews (11:27--12:37; 14:53-65; John 18:13, 19-24) and according to the Roman law by Pilate, the Roman governor (John 18:28--19:6; see note 12 in Mark 15). He was examined until the day of the Passover, when He was crucified (14:12; John 18:28; see note 122 in Mark 14). This insidious and ensnaring examination, coming from many angles, took exactly four days, and He passed, proving that He was fully qualified to be the Lamb required by God for the accomplishing of His redemption, that He may pass over the sinners, both Jews and Gentiles. See notes 12 in ch. 15, 21 in Matt. 26, and 131 in John 18.

Mark  14 : 12, "And on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the passover, His disciples said to Him, Where do You want us to go and prepare so that You may eat the passover?"

........ In the Jews' calendar, which was according to their Scripture, a day began with the evening (Gen. 1:5). During the evening of the last Passover day, first the Slave-Savior ate the Passover feast with His disciples and instituted His supper for them (vv. 12-25); then He went with the disciples to the Garden of Gethsemane at the Mount of Olives (vv. 26-42). He was arrested there and brought to the high priest, where He was judged by the Sanhedrin late in the night (vv. 43-72). In the morning of the same day, He was delivered to Pilate to be judged by him and was sentenced to death (15:1-15). Then He was brought to Golgotha and was crucified there at 9:00 a.m., remaining on the cross until 3:00 p.m. (15:16-41), for the fulfillment of the type of the Passover (Exo. 12:6-11; see note 371 in Mark 12).


Mark 14:22, "And as they were eating, He took bread and blessed it, and He broke it and gave it to them, and said, Take; this is My body."

.......... This was the eating of the Slave-Savior's supper, after He and His followers had eaten the Passover feast in vv. 16-18. He initiated this new feast, which was for His believers' remembrance of Him, to replace the Passover feast, the old testament feast for the elect's remembrance of Jehovah's salvation (Exo. 12:14; 13:3). This new feast of the new testament is for the remembering of the Slave-Savior through the eating of the bread, which signifies His body given for His believers (1 Cor. 11:24), and the drinking of the cup, which signifies His blood shed for their sins (Matt. 26:28). The bread denotes life (John 6:35), the life of God, the eternal life, and the cup denotes blessing (1 Cor. 10:16), which is God Himself as the believers' portion (Psa. 16:5). As sinners, the believers should have had the cup of God's wrath as their portion (Rev. 14:10). But the Slave-Savior drank that cup for them (John 18:11), and His salvation became their portion, the cup of salvation (Psa. 116:13) that runs over (Psa. 23:5), the content of which is God as the believers' all-inclusive blessing. Such a bread and such a cup are the constituents of the Slave-Savior's supper, which is a table (1 Cor. 10:21), a feast, set up by Him that His believers may remember Him by enjoying Him as such a feast. Thus, as His believers remember Him, they display His redeeming and life-imparting death (1 Cor. 11:26  His blood separated from His body declares His death), testifying to the entire universe of His rich and marvelous salvation.

Luke  22 : 15, "And He said to them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer,"

........ The eating and drinking in vv. 15-18 were the keeping of the last Feast of the Passover before the instituting of the Lord's supper in vv. 19-20.

John  6 : 4, "Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near."

........In the Passover, people slay the redeeming lamb, sprinkle its blood, and eat its flesh. This typifies Christ as our Passover (1 Cor. 5:7). He is the redeeming Lamb of God (1:29, 36) slain for us that we may eat His flesh and drink His blood, taking Him in as our life supply that we may live by Him.


John  18 : 13, "And led Him away to Annas first; for he was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, who was high priest that year."

...... The Lord was the Lamb of God (1:29), and He was killed on the day of the Passover (v. 28). As the Passover lamb was examined before it was killed (Exo. 12:3-6), so He was examined by the whole of mankind, represented by the high priest of the Jews and the governor of the Romans, and proved to be without blemish (v. 38b; 19:4, 6). See note 371 in Mark 12.


John  18 : 28, "Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas into the praetorium, and it was early morning. And they themselves did not enter into the praetorium, so that they would not be defiled, but might eat the passover."

......... The Lord was the Lamb of God (1:29), and He was killed on the day of the Passover (v. 28). As the Passover lamb was examined before it was killed (Exo. 12:3-6), so He was examined by the whole of mankind, represented by the high priest of the Jews and the governor of the Romans, and proved to be without blemish (v. 38b; 19:4, 6). See note 371 in Mark 12.


John  20 : 1, "Now on the first day of the week, Mary the Magdalene came early to the tomb while it was yet dark and saw the stone taken away from the tomb."

...... The first day of the week, or the day after the Sabbath, signifies a new beginning, a new age. In Lev. 23:10-11, 15, a sheaf of the firstfruits of the harvest was offered to the Lord as a wave offering on the day after the Sabbath. That sheaf of the firstfruits was a type of Christ as the firstfruits in resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20, 23). Christ resurrected on precisely the day after the Sabbath. By His all-inclusive death He terminated the old creation, which had been completed in six days, after which was the Sabbath day. In His resurrection He germinated the new creation with the divine life. Hence, the day of His resurrection was the beginning of a new week  a new age. This day of His resurrection was appointed by God (Psa. 118:24), was prophesied as "this day" in Psa. 2:7, was predicted by Himself as the third day (Matt. 16:21; John 2:19, 22), and later was called by the early Christians "the Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10). On this day Christ was born in resurrection as the firstborn Son of God (Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5) and the Firstborn from the dead to be the Head of the Body, the church (Col. 1:18).


Acts  2 : 1, "And as the day of Pentecost was being fulfilled, they were all together in the same place."

......... Meaning fiftieth. It was the fiftieth day from the Lord's resurrection, there being seven weeks in between, counting from the second day (the first day of the week  Luke 23:54--24:1) after the Passover on which the Lord was crucified (John 19:14). It was the fulfillment of the Feast of Weeks (Deut. 16:10), which was also called the Feast of Harvest (Exo. 23:16), and was counted from the day of the offering of a sheaf of the firstfruits of the harvest, to the day after the seventh Sabbath (Lev. 23:10-11, 15-16). The sheaf of the firstfruits offered before God was a type of the resurrected Christ offered to God on the day of His resurrection (John 20:17), which was the day after the Sabbath (John 20:1). From that day to the day of Pentecost there were exactly fifty days (cf. 1:3). The Feast of Harvest typifies the enjoyment of the rich produce brought in by the resurrected Christ. This rich produce is the all-inclusive Spirit of the processed Triune God, given by Him to His chosen people as the blessing of the gospel (Gal. 3:14) that they may enjoy the all-inclusive Christ (the very embodiment of the Triune God) as their good land. This signifies that the believers, by receiving the bountiful Spirit on the day of Pentecost, not only have entered into the good land but also have participated in the bountiful riches of the all-inclusive Christ (Eph. 3:8) in His resurrection and ascension, as God's full allotment in His New Testament economy.


1 Corinthians  10 : 6, "Now these things occurred as examples to us, that we should not be ones who lust after evil things, even as they also lusted.

......... Lit., types (so also in v. 11); i.e., figures of facts or of spiritual truths. This book takes the history of the children of Israel in the Old Testament as a type of the New Testament believers. In 5:7-8 the believers experienced Christ as their Passover and began to keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Here in this chapter they are baptized unto their Moses (Christ), passing through their Red Sea (the death of Christ). They are now eating the spiritual food and drinking the spiritual drink that they might take their journey (the Christian race) toward their good land (the all-inclusive Christ). Also, they are warned here (v. 11) not to repeat the history of the children of Israel in doing evil against God, as illustrated in vv. 6-11.

The goal of God's calling of the children of Israel was that they would enter into the promised land to enjoy its riches so that they might establish God's kingdom and be God's expression on earth. However, although all Israel was redeemed through the Passover, delivered out of the Egyptian tyranny, and brought to the mountain of God to receive the revelation of God's dwelling place, the tabernacle, nearly all fell and died in the wilderness, failing to reach this goal (Heb. 3:7-19) because of their evildoings and unbelief. Only Caleb and Joshua reached the goal and entered into the good land (Num. 14:27-30). This signifies that although we have been redeemed through Christ, delivered out of Satan's bondage, and brought into the revelation of God's economy, we may yet fail to reach the goal of God's calling, that is, to enter into the possession of our good land, Christ (Phil. 3:12-14), and enjoy His riches for the kingdom of God that we may be His expression in the present age and participate in the fullest enjoyment of Christ in the kingdom age (Matt. 25:21, 23). This should be a solemn warning to all New Testament believers. It was especially applicable to the Corinthians, who were in danger of repeating the failure of the children of Israel in the wilderness.

Text and notes from Recovery Version bible.




In love,
cj
 
cj said:
The first day of the week, or the day after the Sabbath, signifies a new beginning, a new age. In Lev. 23:10-11, 15, a sheaf of the firstfruits of the harvest was offered to the Lord as a wave offering on the day after the Sabbath. That sheaf of the firstfruits was a type of Christ as the firstfruits in resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20, 23). Christ resurrected on precisely the day after the Sabbath. By His all-inclusive death He terminated the old creation, which had been completed in six days, after which was the Sabbath day. In His resurrection He germinated the new creation with the divine life. Hence, the day of His resurrection was the beginning of a new week  a new age.

Trying to do away with the Sabbath from the first fruits is stretching the meaning of the festival. Notice these comments on this from Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi's book, "God's Festivals in Scripture and History Vol 1":

The First-Fruits in the New Testament. In the New Testament, the typology of the wave-sheaf offering has a Christological, ecclesiological, and eschatological fulfillment. Or, we might say that the wave-sheaf offering is related to Christ, the church, and the End.

Christologically, Christ’s resurrection is seen as the antitypical fulfillment of the wave-sheaf offering because He rose as the first fruits of redeemed humanity on the very day when the first sheaf of barley was presented at the Temple. Paul alludes to the connection between the two events when he writes: "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ" (1 Cor 15:20-23).27 In this passage, Paul speaks of Christ twice as "the first fruits," not only to indicate that He was the first to rise bodily from the grave, but also that by so doing He fulfilled the offering of the first fruits.

This Christ-like fulfillment doesn't promote a new day of worship nor abolish an old one.  It merely points to Christ being the first fruits of the resurrection.


Eschatologically, that is, in relation to the End, the New Testament sees the ultimate fulfillment of the first fruits typology in the resurrection of the redeemed at Christ’s Return. As the first sheaf of the barley harvest was waved before the Lord by the priest as a pledge of the full harvest to follow, so Christ’s resurrection is the ‘first fruits,’ or pledge, of the great harvest that will follow when all the righteous dead are raised at the second coming of Jesus (see 1 Cor 15:23; 1 Thess 4:14-16). "Each in his own order," (1 Cor 15:23), explains Paul. First, there is the fulfillment of the first fruits of Christ’s resurrection and then of all the believers.

Again, pointing to the future resurrection because of the first fruits. Christ the first fruits, afterward they that are His at His coming"


It is noteworthy that the priest did not present before the Lord just one head of grain, but a whole sheaf of barley. Similarly, Christ did not come forth from the grave alone, for "many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised" (Matt 27:52). Paul tells us that when Christ "ascended on high he led a host of captives" (Eph 4:8). Those who were raised at Christ’s death (Matt 27:53) ascended with Christ to heaven as trophies of His power to resurrect all who sleep in the grave. As the offering of the first sheaf of barley was a pledge of the coming harvest, so the saints that Christ raised at the time of His death are a pledge of the countless multitude that Christ will awaken from the dust of the earth at His Second Advent. The 144,000 saints who follow the Lamb are "the first fruits for God and the Lamb" (Rev 14:4) because they represent the glorious destiny that awaits the redeemed of all ages.

Again, no mention of a new day of worship here in this fulfillment.

Ecclesiologically, that is, in relation to the church, the first fruits typify our present privilege to receive the first fruits of the Spirit while we await the resurrection harvest. "We ourselves," Paul says, "who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies" (Rom 8:23). This typological meaning of the offering of the first fruits can be lived out every day in our life as our inward being is renewed daily by God’s Spirit (2 Cor 4:16). As we receive the fruits of the Spirit, we bring forth the fruits of the Spirit in our life, namely, "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" (Gal 5:22). These, in turn, enable us to become the first fruits of God. When we respond to the Gospel’s invitation, we become God’s first fruits. James brings out this truth, saying: " Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures" (Ja 1:18).

Sunday observance here? Nope.  It sounds like a stretching attempt to try and do away with Sabbath worship here. The typology was of the resurrection and the hope of resurrection for all because of the 'first fruits'. To try and apply it to abolishment of Sabbath is reaching.
 
guibox said:
Sunday observance here? Nope.  It sounds like a stretching attempt to try and do away with Sabbath worship here. The typology was of the resurrection and the hope of resurrection for all because of the 'first fruits'. To try and apply it to abolishment of Sabbath is reaching.

Guibox,

Like Paul, I stretch for toward the goal, and not towards doing away with something I had nothing to do with in the first place.

The Jewish Sabbath day was, like everything in the old testament, only a type of that which was to com, and has come.

Christ Himself is our Sabbath, Christ is our real rest.

On the first day of the week, Paul says that we should come together and recognize that it was on a day similar to this one that the Lord fulfilled His prophesy manward. That's all.

Unfortunately, men have made all sorts of religious mumbo jumbo out of this and thereby brought a simple and beautiful reality, that we are "first-day people", into confusion..... much in the same way that those who insist that the traditional Jewish Sabbath day still counts for something add to the confusion.

The Jewish Sabbath has no meaning nor intrinsic value, and those who would purport to keep it are only exposing themselves as ignorant of what God's true Sabbath is.... Christ Jesus.

In love,
cj
 
cj

The Jewish Sabbath has no meaning nor intrinsic value, and those who would purport to keep it are only exposing themselves as ignorant of what God's true Sabbath is.... Christ Jesus.

1) it's not the Jewish Sabbath. The LORD calls it "My holy day" (Isaiah 58:13-14).

The Sabbath is called: "the Sabbath OF THE LORD" - Lev 23:3


2) it's ONE of the TEN Commandments, which we are supposed to keep:

The fact that Paul expected Gentiles to keep the law is demonstrated in many scriptures throughout the book of Romans (e.g. Rom. 3:31; 7:12, 22; etc).


Romans 2:25-29 is especially interesting and direct, though often overlooked. Here uncircumcised Gentiles are admonished to be circumcised of the heart (v. 29) and to become Jews inwardly by keeping "the righteousness of the law" (v. 26) and by fulfilling the law (v. 27). (Obviously Paul could not have meant the full Sinaitic Covenant in his use of the term "law" here, since circumcision was a part of the law.)

Only with God's Holy Spirit, through Christ, can a human being fulfill the righteousness of the law (Rom. 8:4) and "delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Rom. 7:22).
 
---More Dis/Obedient Fruit Offerings Seen!--

See Gen. 4:4-7 for the comparable 'fruit offering', to that of an sun offering, in place of the 7th Day Sabbath that is REQUIRED Everlasting COVENANT OBEDIENCE! (Ex. 20:8-11, Heb. 13:20 or Rev. 22:9) if one has the 'Desire' to Obey re/created in them by the Holy Ghost in the first place?? Acts 5:32 And surely one that makes that 'decison' as does Cain, knows that he is a Jew, huh? (That was a tongue in cheek remark :o)
---Elijah
 
cj said:
The Jewish Sabbath day was, like everything in the old testament, only a type of that which was to com, and has come.
Everything? Or just what suits your lifestyle? I guess if the Sabbath (created by God for man, and given in the decalogue for man) is a type, so is stealing, idol worship, murder and adultery is too.

cj said:
Christ Himself is our Sabbath, Christ is our real rest.
Christ is our salvation and we find our 'rest from sin' with Him. This does not negate the need for a physical rest (which was given by God for that purpose) where we take time away and allow God to work in us. The Sabbath is not a typology to Christ for the Sabbath was not a liturgical practice, but an existential reality created from the foundation of the world.

cj said:
On the first day of the week, Paul says that we should come together and recognize that it was on a day similar to this one that the Lord fulfilled His prophesy manward. That's all.

I sure would like to see this biblical mandate.

cj said:
The Jewish Sabbath has no meaning nor intrinsic value, and those who would purport to keep it are only exposing themselves as ignorant of what God's true Sabbath is.... Christ Jesus.

Apparently you haven't studied what the Sabbath is all about if you say that it has no meaning. And yet with all this 'we don't need a Sabbath Day' many Sunday keepers try so hard to show that Sunday is the new holy day. Why? Why replace one holy day which has no 'meaning' and then try and replace with another day with the same value?

If Sabbath has been done away with, then NO day is needed to worship Christ, and NO day is holy. Sunday keepers won't admit that, however. Instead they will use the same arguments to justify Sunday observance like Sabbatarians do for the seventh day (just with a LOT less biblical evidence.Why? because they don't have a problem with the concept of Sabbath, just a problem with the day. Just like all nine of the ten commandments are still binding, but somehow one of them isn't.

Sabbath doesn't fit into people's lifestyles today so they will use whatever argument they can to do away with God's laws.
 
guilbox said:
If Sabbath has been done away with, then NO day is needed to worship Christ, and NO day is holy. Sunday keepers won't admit that, however. Instead they will use the same arguments to justify Sunday observance like Sabbatarians do for the seventh day (just with a LOT less biblical evidence.Why? because they don't have a problem with the concept of Sabbath, just a problem with the day. Just like all nine of the ten commandments are still binding, but somehow one of them isn't. emphasis/R
  • Matthew 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 " On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
    NASU
Love to God is the equivalent of the first four commancments
Love fellow man is the equivalent of the last six commandments.


Jesus said 'on these two...whole law and the Prophets'

........Restin
 
Love to God is the equivalent of the first four commandtments
Love fellow man is the equivalent of the last six commandments.

Jesus said 'on these two...whole law and the Prophets'

........Restin

********
Hi, I know what you mean. But for more clear thought? might it be said that love to God includes all the ten, even the duty to Gods creation as well. And our love for man is a separate commandment. (table) I say this because of the new 'type' theocracy of Rom. 13's second table of the Covenant? There is a clear separation seen here for 'liberty'. (legalism)

Love is the 'key'. The Caesar part is for the 'others' that we live beside :fadein:! These are to legally be kept 'corralled' within this second half only by legal force. (not forced Worship! Yet anyhow. :wink:)

--Elijah
 
And in the mingling of God and man, the two commandments become just one single expression...... God expressed in His creation.

in love,
cj
 
Bob10 said:
love, yes.

some folks think "love" does away with the commandments.

Right on! :fadein: The ten are the character of God personified, Their letter of Agape Love to us, the VERY EPISTLE OF CHRIST, His Everlasting Gospel, Their Everlasting COVENANT!! See 2 Cor. 3:3 & Heb. 13:20, Rev. 14:6!!Without Me, Christ said in John 15, 'ye could do nothing'. That too, is an eternal truth! The RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST, HIS EVERLASTING GOSPEL! (In all eternity)
Adam & Eve lost the Garment of His Righteous Covering, and then needed it again in working & Obedient faith! Gen. 3:15 & Gen. 4:7, Matt. 22:11 & then, Heb. 11:13[/color
] Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 is also the eternal Gospel & Covenant provision for all of the Godheads created ones!---Elijah[/color]
 
I did not say that the date time and day of His ressurrection wasn't important, did I?
 
Colossians 2:15-17



15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
 
awisherofgrace said:
Colossians 2:15-17



15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Please look at this link to explain this verse in its proper context, please. It will help you understand the errors of the (mis)interpretation of this verse. :)

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=12206
 
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