Wicca?

[Clémentine]

Hello. A friend of mine has recently come forward and told me that she is a Wiccan. We've been friends for several years and while I didn't know she was serious about Wicca I did know that she wasn't a Christian. She's always been very accepting of my beliefs and interested in hearing what I think about different issues. She's also been willing to come to church with my family in the past and isn't hostile at all. Anyway, she's started telling me a little about why Wicca is meaningful to her and has said that since she's always been willing to look at other belief systems I should take a look at hers. I said I would read a bit about it online but she asked me if I would be willing to observe (not take part, just watch) either her solitary practise or her group when they meet. She's told me she doesn't do serious spellcasting at this point since she's a novice and that her group meetings are generally not about working magic but about communing with nature. Apparently, they have a bonfire on the beach, read, talk about their experiences and pray. Some members do perform spells but she said it's not a big deal, mostly something like lighting a candle and thinking about areas they'd like help with, burning incense or something simple, not potions or big productions. Her solitary practise is also lighting candles, expressing reverence for the elements and reading. She's told me I wouldn't be expected to do anything, say anything or touch anything and nothing would be done to me or involving me, I would just be observing the way she does when she's come to church and watched us sing, pray and listen to the sermon. I'm interested in learning about it but also a little scared. She is a very nice and genuine person, friendly and open and I have a hard time believing she's associated with anything malicious. Any ideas or advice?

 

[Caroline H]

My advice, DON'T! The reason that she was open to hearing about your religion is because she was searching. She should not expect you to be fine with observing her at a wicca ceremony because you are NOT searching. It seems manipulative of her to even ask you and say that since she went to your church services you should go to her wicca services. The things they have her do at this stage may seem benign, but believe me they are not. Do not give the enemy a foothold in your life by saying, "well, it seems harmless, they're only lighting incense and praying about what they want to improve on." You have no idea who they are praying to (they may not either) and by your going you send a message to your friend that you do not take your own faith seriously enough to turn her down.

 

[Cheyenne K]

I agree with Caroline.

But not only that, when she is asking you, she is looking for some sort of acceptance that her beliefs are okay by you. As Christians, there does have to be a line drawn with what is and what is not right. And by observing something she is doing as part of Wicca, she may see and think that you are fine with her practicing it and that her beliefs are fine and dandy, whether or not you intended to come across this way. Idol worship is wrong and is said so in the Bible. You should let her know that her beliefs are different from yours, and yours does not agree or condone the worship of other gods. This lets her know in a nicer way that you do not agree with her beliefs, nor do you want to have any part in them, which may save you trouble down the road. Right now she may just want you to obseve, but later it could be actually practicing in her rituals. I have known people who have had a similar dilemna with a Wiccan and that is what happened.

 

[Mike]

I agree with Caroline. My family lived next door to a Mormon family. They were never open about their faith; sort of guarded. One day the dad (nice guy) came over and said he had some questions about Christianity. Our conversation progressed, and it got to a point that he told me he was Mormon. He said he'd be willing to visit our church if I was willing to visit his. That's when things came to a halt. I expressed my feelings. "You came to me because you said you were curious; searching. I'm certain of my faith, so we aren't in similar situations." That was the end of that, and from that point forward, they were open about their Mormon faith and showed no interest in Christianity. It was clear what his motivation was all along.

Not the same circumstance exactly, but I'd urge you not to visit. You know what you know, and this should be shared with her. This isn't to say we shouldn't learn about other faiths, as this serves to solidify our own faith. Showing your conviction with kindness and respect will serve as its own witness to the Truth.

 

[HisSheep]

Clémentine,

Welcome to the forum!

First of all, if you are secure in your faith, you will not be harmed by the practices of Wicca. Do not fear it.

Second, as a reformed atheist/wiccan/ universalist, I can assure you that these are empty religions. Many people (like me) end up experimenting with this stuff as they try to figure things out. Your friend may come around, once she figures this out.

I might be tempted to attend. In doing so however, I would consider myself a witness among the Wiccans. The best thing you can do for your friend (and for Christ) is to be an example to her of a good Christian. You’ll need to decide if that example entails witnessing or abstaining. It may take years for your example to have any effect, but that’s the way God works. If you do go, do not let them compromise your beliefs or convince you to embrace “pluralismâ€. Our God is a solitary God and there is no other. Nature is not a God. “Goodness†is not a God. Be careful of their attempts to tell you that you are not “open mindedâ€. You don’t need to be open minded; you have the one true God.

Caroline H makes some good points as well. Her advice is sound. You’ll have to determine what God’s will is for you in this instance.

I am hyper evangelical, so I would attend and preach Christ to the others there. If they didn’t like it, I would leave. If you don’t feel comfortable with that, or feel ill prepared to witness to atheists, then don’t go. Be prepared to part ways with your friend if she is becomes polarized against you. For me, that’s when I would take Caroline’s sound advice.

Either way, the relationship is in jeopardy. If you go and make a Christian pariah of yourself, you may be rejected. If you don’t go at all, you will be marked as “intolerant†and may be rejected. Ultimately, it may not be possible for the two of you to reconcile your respective beliefs; they are incompatible. That’s why I warn you against compromising. You might be tempted to “find common ground†to salvage a friendship that would otherwise fail. There is no common ground:

2 Cor 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

Don’t worry too much: By doing either thing, you are setting a good example, and the relationship may not be salvageable anyway.

-HisSheep

 

[Clémentine]

But not only that, when she is asking you, she is looking for some sort of acceptance that her beliefs are okay by you. As Christians, there does have to be a line drawn with what is and what is not right. And by observing something she is doing as part of Wicca, she may see and think that you are fine with her practicing it and that her beliefs are fine and dandy, whether or not you intended to come across this way.

I've told her I don't believe Wicca to be anything real, so I think she knows I don't accept it. One if the reasons I was interested in observing was because then I could tell her with some authority that I do or don't approve - I'd know what exactly it was I was making a decision on. Right now, my knowledge of Wicca is quite limited. I had a Silver Ravenwolf book when I was 15 but gave it away quickly after receiving it since it didn't seem very interesting to me. Otherwise, I've just read one website (CARM) about Wicca, and know what my friend has told me.

Second, as a reformed atheist/wiccan/ universalist, I can assure you that these are empty religions. Many people (like me) end up experimenting with this stuff as they try to figure things out. Your friend may come around, once she figures this out.

Experimenting sounds a lot like what she's doing. I know she's been searching for something to believe in for a while now. This could be just one stop on her path.

Be prepared to part ways with your friend if she is becomes polarized against you. For me, that’s when I would take Caroline’s sound advice.

Either way, the relationship is in jeopardy. If you go and make a Christian pariah of yourself, you may be rejected. If you don’t go at all, you will be marked as “intolerant†and may be rejected. Ultimately, it may not be possible for the two of you to reconcile your respective beliefs; they are incompatible. That’s why I warn you against compromising. You might be tempted to “find common ground†to salvage a friendship that would otherwise fail. There is no common ground:

Honestly, I don't think she'll act that way. When she asked me about coming along with her she really sounded like she was mostly excited to show off and wanted someone to share her enthusiasm with, not that she was pushing me to be Wiccan too. She's still attending church with my family a lot of the time, and two days ago we were at a Family shop (Christian bookshop) and she sat with me, read an apologetics book and bought a book about Revelation. Her approach seems very relaxed and tolerant, which makes me think she's still searching and open. I know two other people who are in her group. I don't know them very well at all, mostly just their names (they attended my same school) but they've always seemed friendly so I don't think anyone will be screaming at me or labelling me. But I think I'll still pray about it. By the way, I did ask my parents' permission (I'm 18 but live with them until autumn) and they said I could go. They know this friend and think highly of her. Both of my parents are Christians but in their professional work they encounter people from all different faiths (dad's a psychiatrist, mom's a professor at a university) and say it's good to understand different religions. I think they are both a bit curious about what witches believe.

 

[seekandlisten]

I'm interested in learning about it but also a little scared.

Well I've never observed a Wiccan ceremony, I would go and observe if somebody asked. I have looked into it a bit in studying other religions and they are forbidden to harm others I believe, not that casting spells works. Check it out, ask her why she believes what she believes, ask her what the rituals they perform actually do, you will probably end up being surprised that they are like any other religion just with different practices and more focus on nature. Nothing to be afraid of.

cheers"

 

[Nick]

I"m sorry Caroline, Mike and others, but I disagree. I think she should go.

I never got the impression that your friend was searching, just that she was open to experience other beliefs. She may have been searching, but that is not the impression I've got.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not for the Wiccan beliefs at all, but I think that since your friend has made the effort to go to your church, then perhaps it is not too harmful to just got and see a Wiccan ceremony. The main reason I say go, is to learn more about the Wiccan practises (and what better way to do it than actually see it yourself) so you know what they're really on about. This gives you a better position when talking with your friend about Christianity, becasue you have seen and know what she practises as a Wiccan therefore you can see where she's coming from and to her you don't represent someone who's ignorant of what she believes when talking to her about Christianity. Then she may be more open with you about talking aboutt this kind of stuff. If you are a well-grounded Christian, then to go to her ceremony once (at the most twice) shouldn't be harmful at all IMO.

But if you do go, set strict rules for yourself: don't get involved - strictly observe. And limit yourself beforehand on how many times you'll go. I suggest only once. Be open with her, the group and your family about this. And pray. That's always important.

But most importantly, if you don't think you can control yourself and abide by the rules you've set yourself, then it is not worth going.

 

[westtexas]

not about working magic but about communing with nature. Apparently, they have a bonfire on the beach, read, talk about their experiences and pray.

Just my 2 cents but I agree that it could be extremely dangerous for you spiritually. It IS NOT simply communing with nature. WHO ARE THEY PRAYING TO? I'm willing to bet it's not the same God that you as a Christian pray to.

Westtexas

 

[Nick]

Yes, I was alarmed about the 'praying' thing as well. Would be interested to see how that is done. I'm assuming they pray to Mother Nature or something like that?

 

[Mike]

I"m sorry Caroline, Mike and others, but I disagree. I think she should go.

Come on, Nick! I thought we had an understanding that you were to agree with me all the time! What happened to that?!!

I'm trying to imagine Peter or Paul agreeing to sit in on the pagan rituals they were warning about. I understand what you're getting at. It could be seen as a way of extending herself. If I had a friend who was asking me, I'd have a heart to heart with them. I'd explain how much I appreciate them as a friend, but there's nothing that could possibly be there for me. I would try to find a way to encourage continued dialog without sending any mixed signals by going.

 

[Nick]

I"m sorry Caroline, Mike and others, but I disagree. I think she should go.

Come on, Nick! I thought we had an understanding that you were to agree with me all the time! What happened to that?!!

Oops. Looks like I didn't keep my end of the bargin. You did stop asking questions

I'm trying to imagine Peter or Paul agreeing to sit in on the pagan rituals they were warning about. I understand what you're getting at. It could be seen as a way of extending herself. If I had a friend who was asking me, I'd have a heart to heart with them. I'd explain how much I appreciate them as a friend, but there's nothing that could possibly be there for me. I would try to find a way to encourage continued dialog without sending any mixed signals by going.

If she's clear about it before she goes, I don't see it as sending mixed signals. I agree with having a discussion together, but I feel going to this could open the conversation up more. This reminds me of when I think it's Paul says he became poor to the poor etc. Can't remember where it's from though

 

[Mike]

If she's clear about it before she goes, I don't see it as sending mixed signals. I agree with having a discussion together, but I feel going to this could open the conversation up more. This reminds me of when I think it's Paul says he became poor to the poor etc. Can't remember where it's from though

Were you thinking of 1 Cor 9?

"19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

I understand he would behave as they did in their cultures, but not attend and passively sit in on their services. I think they would have stopped short in being found sitting in their pagan temples.

Consider 1 Cor 10:

"18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. 22Are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy? Are we stronger than he?"

I understand what you are saying. Do you understand my take? (before you respond, remember... very few questions any more)

 

[seekandlisten]

Consider 1 Cor 10:

"18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. 22Are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy? Are we stronger than he?"

Reading a little further. . .

Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. - 1 Corinthians 10:23-24, 27 (NIV)

cheers

 

[Holly02]

Wicca is an evil religion. Wiccans worship Satan whether they think they do or not. Wicca is a dangerous religion. One get involved with demons and such by becoming involved with Wicca. I would strongly recommend against getting involved with Wicca.

 

[Pard]

Wicca is an evil religion. Wiccans worship Satan

Technically, don't all religions worship Satan, unless they are Worshiping the Father?

I'd refrain from going. You can say "They will not get to me", however you will never know unless you go, and do you really want to take that chance? Besides, demons are evil critters. The will torment you for interfering with their captives. One may even follow you home and plague a loved ones life.

 

[Oats]

Clémentine

Hey ...I think you should go. But only in two case
1. You have a strong enough faith in Jesus
2. If you would use this as a time to evangelize.

I would be careful in any case...no to jump to conclusions...or accuse your friend of any evil; But I've heard some wicked things with Wicca.

But thats to be said about anything

 

[Nick]

If she's clear about it before she goes, I don't see it as sending mixed signals. I agree with having a discussion together, but I feel going to this could open the conversation up more. This reminds me of when I think it's Paul says he became poor to the poor etc. Can't remember where it's from though

Were you thinking of 1 Cor 9?

"19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

I understand he would behave as they did in their cultures, but not attend and passively sit in on their services. I think they would have stopped short in being found sitting in their pagan temples.

Consider 1 Cor 10:

"18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. 22Are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy? Are we stronger than he?"

I understand what you are saying. Do you understand my take? (before you respond, remember... very few questions any more)

Yes, that was the passage I was thinking of. But I am beginning to agree with you. The 1 Corinthians 10 passage seemed to spell it out pretty clearly. I am reminded of a few friends who have gone off the rails when they attended a church who teach false gospels.

 

[Chris]

1. your friend is your friend DO NOT dump her because of differing beliefs. Through your loyalty and love you will show her the love of Jesus. You have to trust that the emptiness of the other religion will make her eventually want what she feels is in you. Your genuine unconditional love earns you the right to share your faith.

With true friendship you should be able to respect each others views and remain friends.
Christianity if is is working correctly in someone is like an attractive light to lonely and empty people. That's where God steps in and does the work in peoples Hearts.

2. As for going with her I would ask God in prayer and wait for an answer and do that.

 

[seekandlisten]

Technically, don't all religions worship Satan, unless they are Worshiping the Father?

Some would like you to think so.

I'd refrain from going. You can say "They will not get to me", however you will never know unless you go, and do you really want to take that chance?

Or you may discover that there is nothing to be afraid of.

Besides, demons are evil critters. The will torment you for interfering with their captives.

I think you've heard a few to many 'tales'.

One may even follow you home and plague a loved ones life.

I don't think it works this way so you can rest easy.

cheers