Will there be a rapture?

[JM]

just wondering what ya'll thought.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I like the way Mike Warnke says it:
"One day that trumpet is gonna toot, and I'm gonna scoot."

 

[jgredline]

Yep
While the study of the end times is not exactly my cup of tea, I do know enough to know I will be caught up hopefully in my lifetime.

 

[Judy]

Yep
While the study of the end times is not exactly my cup of tea, I do know enough to know I will be caught up hopefully in my lifetime.

I hope you will be following the end time study going on in the bible study forum. You might find it interesting.

 

[lecoop]

Check out Rev chapter 7; the great crowd without number: it was the raptured church, already in heaven, before the 70th week event starts.

Don't be thrown by the words, "great tribulation" there. Just keep in mind that when Jesus used those two words discribing the time after the abomination event, He was NOT putting a "title" on the last 3 1/2 years: He was just describing how bad it will be.

Today, there is great tribulation or great pressure felt for Christians in many countries of the world, such as China, where I get weekly reports of beatings and sometimes death, just because people believe in Christ. All John is telling us in chapter 7 is that when the rapture occurs, there will be great pressure around the world, just to stay a Christian. Remember, even here, at Columbine school, a girl died, because she refused to deny Jesus. It cannot be any greater tribulation when you die! You cannot be killed twice.

Coop

 

[JM]

Where in Revelation is there a rapture?

 

[Judy]

I believe you can see it in Rev 7:9-17

• Rev 7:9. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
  10. and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!''
  11. And all the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
  12. saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.''
  13. Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?''
  14. And I said to him, "Sir, you know.'' So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
  15. "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
  16. "They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;
  17. "for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.'' [/*:m:33547]

 

[JM]

I believe you can see it in Rev 7:9-17

• Rev 7:9. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
  10. and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!''
  11. And all the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
  12. saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.''
  13. Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?''
  14. And I said to him, "Sir, you know.'' So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
  15. "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
  16. "They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;
  17. "for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.'' [/*:m:e8e02]

Where is the rapture mentioned?

[I'm being difficult, I know.]

~JM~

 

[Judy]

Where is the rapture mentioned?

[I'm being difficult, I know.]

~JM~

Well it is not mention by the word rapture, but it is implied by this great multitude no one could number.

 

[JM]

Well it is not mention by the word rapture, but it is implied by this great multitude no one could number.

All that is mentioned is the great mutitude, nothing about how they're gathered, etc.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

All that is mentioned is the great mutitude, nothing about how they're gathered, etc.

JM

While I believe in the rapture, I have often thought that these passages in Revelation were in reference to WWII. In the light of the lives of six million Jews being lost, I certainly hope that there are more than 144,000 that were saved during that time. The great multitude that shows up afterwards, in my opinion, would refer to the rest of the lives lost around the world during WWII.

Just to make sure that no one misses this - It is simply my opinion.

 

[Judy]

All that is mentioned is the great mutitude, nothing about how they're gathered, etc.

Haven't you ever heard of a stairway to heaven? I think it was ledzeppelin that said that. :

 

[Vic C.]

It cannot be any greater tribulation when you die! You cannot be killed twice

.
Hey Coop...

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

:

 

[lecoop]

Where in Revelation is there a rapture?

1) How did the great crowd without number get from earth to heaven?
2) How did the 144,000 as seen in chapter 14, get to heaven?
3) How does the two witnesses get to heaven?


Rev 7:9. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Note, "of all nations..." There were earthly people, from all nations. Where are they here? They are standing before the throne. It does not tell us that these people were killed to get here! It makes perfect sense that the rapture is here, for God's wrath starts with the 7th seal. The rrapture then, must be before the 7th seal.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

.
Hey Coop...

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

:

You are quite right, when you add spiritual death. However, I was speaking of our physical body. Once it is dead, it cannot be killed again, unless one were raised from the dead first! : -))

Coop

 

[Vic C.]

Oh, I knew; I was just being silly. :-D

 

[JM]

Coop, those are the questions I'm asking, the answers that are given are based on assumption.

1) How did the great crowd without number get from earth to heaven?

The text doesn't say.

2) How did the 144,000 as seen in chapter 14, get to heaven?

Would love to know!

3) How does the two witnesses get to heaven?

From what I see all are gathered by death into the throne room of God.

B. H. Carroll wrote, “He shall be arrayed in white garments.†This is the first promise to the overcoming few in Sardis who “had not defiled their garments.†In order to a correct interpretation of this passage we must collate it with the following correlative passages: The “wedding garment†of Matthew 22:12; the “white robe†conferred on the souls of the martyrs, Revelation 7:9, 13-14; the fine linen or wedding garment of the Bride at the marriage of the Lamb, Revelation 19:7-8; and the “washed robes†that entitle to the tree of life, Revelation 22:14. [end quote]


~JM~

 

[Vic C.]

OK, so we can gather by Jason's post that a harpazo of the dead will be through a ressurection, but what about:

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What is Paul saying here?

 

[JM]

OK, so we can gather by Jason's post that a harpazo of the dead will be through a ressurection, but what about:

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What is Paul saying here?

What is Paul saying?

and on what grounds or by what guidelines are we using to say it's acceptible to insert what Paul is teaching in 1 Th.4 into any section of Revelation? What in the passage of Rev. 7 allows us to insert 1 Th. 4:16? Show me how and why so I will know.

Who are those that "are alive and remain?"

~JM~

 

[Vic C.]

Looks like we are asking the same question. ;-)