[_ Old Earth _] World-Views: Evolutionism and Biblical

[felix]

So you are able to judge the hearts of believers? There are strong believers who believe in evolution and it is very wrong to say that a professing believer who also believes evolution doesn't have a close relationship with God or has doubts and moving towards atheism. Since the Bible never gives the how of it all, just who started it all, we simply cannot make the Bible say what we want with complete disregard for science.

So as per the OP and the topic of this thread, this is not a matter of evolution vs creation nor evolution vs Christianity. That is a categorical mistake. This isn't evolution vs creation, since God (an intelligent agent) could have used evolution (a mechanism) as the process or a process of creating. What it does come down to is scientific naturalism vs theism.

But God Himself said He created everything in 7 days. Adam, Eve and all animals were created on the 6th day.
How can someone be a Christian and still don't believe His Word, esp, that comes with the part of 10 commandments?
Exod 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

If only you still want to believe in Evolution and it occurred within a single day, then that's not evolution at all.

 

[Sparkey]

This segue or move without interruption from one song, melody, or scene to another is in part, my fault.
I've split this conversation from another distinct thread. That thread was about Evolution, not Evolution-ism.

This thread crosses over into the more unbounded area of beliefs (not just facts) and that by design.
Thus I will echo what Free has said here, respect the limited speech you have here, continue to show respect for the opinions of others.
A point has been made about Freedom of Speech. The Private owner of this forum retains the right to keep the Terms of Service Agreement binding on all Members. Nobody is saying that you may not speak what ever you want in your own homes. But while we are in this house, we have agreed to abide by these rules.

Christians, consider the words of the Holy Spirit through James. Especially chapter 3, when he speaks of how a fire may be ignited by the tongue, how a man able to bridle his tongue is able to bridle the whole body, that's how unruly it is. Remove your sandals and speak from holy ground. Do I sound like a Dad? It's because I am. I'm not that good of a facilitator when I have to stop and speak with authoritativeness. But I don't mind, not really. Not if it produces result. It's when I work and am deprived of my fruit that I become annoyed. Yes, I too will be judged. The Lord is showing me things that I too need to correct and I ask your prayerful support in this. I will humble myself and ask, not just saying, I am in need here. He knows what He showed me, tell your Lord that Sparrow sent you, to ask that his ears be opened to the message from upright Job and the secrets contained there. Deut 12:7, Deut 26:11, Ecclesiastes 2:24, 8:15

 

[VirginShallConceive]

But God Himself said He created everything in 7 days. Adam, Eve and all animals were created on the 6th day.
How can someone be a Christian and still don't believe His Word, esp, that comes with the part of 10 commandments?

For the same reason that you can be a Christian without having to avoid eating shellfish and having to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath.

 

[felix]

For the same reason that you can be a Christian without having to avoid eating shellfish and having to stone people to death for working on the Sabbath.

So, tell me a Christian who don't believe in the law. I never said anything about following it.

Christians believe the law it is from God the Father and Christ fulfilled it, and we are under grace.

If you had lived before Christ came and worship the true God, yes, you should avoid eating shellfish and stone people to death as in the law.

For clarity,
If the statement in 4th commandment is not literal, then why not the rest of the 9? Is God asking Israelite to follow an allegory?

 

[Sparkey]

Christians believe the law it is from God the Father and Christ fulfilled it, and we are under grace.

Yes. Grace. And Long-suffering. I am pleading with you that if we consider the long-suffering of God as a requisite part of our Salvation (and who doesn't?) then also we are to use that characteristic of godliness in our dealings with others.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

So, tell me a Christian who don't believe in the law. I never said anything about following it.

Christians believe the law it is from God the Father and Christ fulfilled it, and we are under grace.

If you had lived before Christ came and worship the true God, yes, you should avoid eating shellfish and stone people to death as in the law.

For clarity,
If the statement in 4th commandment is not literal, then why not the rest of the 9? Is God asking Israelite to follow an allegory?

Christians have been interpreting the Bible differently since the beginning of Christianity, and they continue to do so.


I am just telling you that you are more closely related to your parents than you are to me.

You are more closely related to me than you are to a chimpanzee.

You are more closely related to a chimpanzee than you are to a monkey.

You are more closely related to a monkey than you are to a zebra.

You are more closely related to a zebra than you are to an alligator.

You are more closely related to an alligator then you are to influenza.



You know the old logic test. They give you three or more items, and you have to pick which one doesn't belong.

1) Human
2) Chimpanzee
3) Yellow perch

I easily say that "yellow perch" is the choice that best doesn't belong. With your worldview, you would have to say that "human" best doesn't belong.




It's not a matter of life or death(usually) whether you accept this or not. You and I have a lot in common. For one, we like to discuss various topics on the internet. It's all good, My Friend.

 

[felix]

Christians have been interpreting the Bible differently since the beginning of Christianity, and they continue to do so.


I am just telling you that you are more closely related to your parents than you are to me.

You are more closely related to me than you are to a chimpanzee.

You are more closely related to a chimpanzee than you are to a monkey.

You are more closely related to a monkey than you are to a zebra.

You are more closely related to a zebra than you are to an alligator.

You are more closely related to an alligator then you are to influenza.



You know the old logic test. They give you three or more items, and you have to pick which one doesn't belong.

1) Human
2) Chimpanzee
3) Yellow perch

I easily say that "yellow perch" is the choice that best doesn't belong. With your worldview, you would have to say that "human" best doesn't belong.




It's not a matter of life or death(usually) whether you accept this or not. You and I have a lot in common. For one, we like to discuss various topics on the internet. It's all good, My Friend.

Q: How closely are they related when they have a different blood and a different flesh?
A: They are not related at all.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Q: How closely are they related when they have a different blood and a different flesh?
A: They are not related at all.

Did you hear that, folks?
You can now put away all the microscopes and digging tools.
You can close down all biological research that will further help us fight sicknesses that cause us suffering.
Felix has it all figured out.

Felix and I only ask that you keep improving our communication technology, since we love to debate each other over the internet. It's all in good fun. Felix doesn't actually learn anything. He just keeps denying the truth. I, on the other hand, learn a lot by exploring the mind of a person in heavy denial.

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke

 

[felix]

Did you hear that, folks?
You can now put away all the microscopes and digging tools.
You can close down all biological research that will further help us fight sicknesses that cause us suffering.
Felix has it all figured out.

Felix and I only ask that you keep improving our communication technology, since we love to debate each other over the internet. It's all in good fun. Felix doesn't actually learn anything. He just keeps denying the truth. I, on the other hand, learn a lot by exploring the mind of a person in heavy denial.

As I told you already, people who call themselves Christians are not actually Christians.

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke

Mr Paul who wrote most of NT, who preached the gospel of Christ is with me. Who are you with? A bunch of atheists who deny God and His creation?

• 1Cor 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh, but [there is] one [kind] [of] flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, [and] another of birds.
• Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,

 

[Grazer]

I'm with Jesus, not Paul.

 

[Stone-yarder]

Here’s my original post that sparked this: “The theory of evolution is a religion in every sense of the word, it is humanism. It seeks to answer the four great questions of life by EXCLUDING God, period, end of story.Christianity is creation. Evolution and Christianity are bi-polar opposites they have nothing in common.†This is a foundational issue that tears at thevery heart of Christianity, evolutionists and humanists know this. There is only one place that you can try to ADD millions of years to the bible and thats at the beginning. How come Christians don’t believe that the days between Jesus’death and resurrection were millions of years? Or what about the 40 years in the desert? Why can’t that be 40 million years? What if I told you I believed this and came on this forum trying to sell you on this belief? You’d think I was insane wouldn’t you?

This is not a direct attack toward any individual in this forum, rather, awake-up call. Ask yourself this: do I really believe that God meant what he said and did what he did? If my answer is yes, then I cannot reinterpret or add to what He did in the beginning. This really comes down to compromise, not whether God did it or not. So, where does the compromising end...did Jesus really die for my sins or will I just view that as symbolic as well? What about the 10 commandments? Were those really meant for us to follow or shall we insert something there as well? Why don’t we just change it to 8 commandments, or say 6, or maybe just 1 commandment. Do you see where I'm going? Psalm 11:3 “If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?†Genesis is our absolute foundation. No Genesis, No Jesus. Trying to fit evolution into the bible is detrimental to someone trying to witness to an unbeliever. Their statement is, "Why should I believe that book that you don't truly accept as truth?" Believe it or not, I have heard people say that to Christians who try to combine evolution and the bible. Taking this route is destroying the faith of many and how do you think God views that? This is a spiritual battle that has Satan pitting one Christian against another, don’t you see this?

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Mr Paul who wrote most of NT, who preached the gospel of Christ is with me. Who are you with? A bunch of atheists who deny God and His creation?

You wanna know who I'm with?

I'm with the people who study Evolution and create vaccines that can help people.

I am with Mr. Paul. I too believe that women oughtta sit down and shut up while in church. 1 Timothy 2:11-14

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke

 

[Stone-yarder]

You wanna know who I'm with?

I'm with the people who study Evolution and create vaccines that can help people.

I am with Mr. Paul. I too believe that women oughtta sit down and shut up while in church. 1 Timothy 2:11-14

"I'm with the people who study Evolution" So why is it evolution first and God last? Do you not see the error of your ways?

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke

 

[VirginShallConceive]

"I'm with the people who study Evolution" So its evolution first and God last? Do you not see the error of your ways?

Don't even tell me you've never tried shellfish.

 

[Stone-yarder]

God bless you.

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke

 

[Grazer]

Here’s my original post that sparked this: “The theory of evolution is a religion in every sense of the word, it is humanism. It seeks to answer the four great questions of life by EXCLUDING God, period, end of story.Christianity is creation. Evolution and Christianity are bi-polar opposites they have nothing in common.†This is a foundational issue that tears at thevery heart of Christianity, evolutionists and humanists know this. There is only one place that you can try to ADD millions of years to the bible and thats at the beginning. How come Christians don’t believe that the days between Jesus’death and resurrection were millions of years? Or what about the 40 years in the desert? Why can’t that be 40 million years? What if I told you I believed this and came on this forum trying to sell you on this belief? You’d think I was insane wouldn’t you?

This is not a direct attack toward any individual in this forum, rather, awake-up call. Ask yourself this: do I really believe that God meant what he said and did what he did? If my answer is yes, then I cannot reinterpret or add to what He did in the beginning. This really comes down to compromise, not whether God did it or not. So, where does the compromising end...did Jesus really die for my sins or will I just view that as symbolic as well? What about the 10 commandments? Were those really meant for us to follow or shall we insert something there as well? Why don’t we just change it to 8 commandments, or say 6, or maybe just 1 commandment. Do you see where I'm going? Psalm 11:3 “If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?†Genesis is our absolute foundation. No Genesis, No Jesus. Trying to fit evolution into the bible is detrimental to someone trying to witness to an unbeliever. Their statement is, "Why should I believe that book that you don't truly accept as truth?" Believe it or not, I have heard people say that to Christians who try to combine evolution and the bible. Taking this route is destroying the faith of many and how do you think God views that? This is a spiritual battle that has Satan pitting one Christian against another, don’t you see this?

Genesis is not the foundation though, it certainly isn't the foundation of my faith. Jesus and his death & resurrection is. The bible has many genres in it; poetry, prophesy, history....what each book is plays a part in how we interpret and apply it. Questions like "what was God trying to impart here?" and "Was God only trying to teach me science and history?" In essence, what truth was God trying to impart here? If I were to say "the car flew down the road" Now cars don't fly so is that statement true? No it isn't. But we recognize it using metaphor for "it was going really fast" which is a true statement. I don't see why God is unable to do the same thing, infact Jesus proved he isn't when he used parables (unless you're going to suggest they were historical events Jesus was referring to) Weve got it into our heads that truth is solely linked to space/time and that's just not how past cultures worked. The bible had to be relevant to them as well as us.

I don't need genesis to be an historical account for the gospel to make sense any more than I need the bible to tell me killing someone is wrong to know it is. Once I accepted that Genesis may not in fact be historical/literal strengthened my faith, what was destroying it was being told it was literal and can only be taken literally to be true I.e the view you're espousing. I wonder what God thinks of that.

 

[Stone-yarder]

So basically you just pick and choose what parts of the bible are ok to beleive in?

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke

 

[Grazer]

So basically you just pick and choose what parts of the bible are ok to beleive in...

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "reply to: address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke

Not at all. Literal and true are very different things.

Do you wait 3 months before eating fruit? Do you eat meat with blood in it? We all pick and choose to some degree but not taking something literally is not the same as picking and choosing.

Whilst this thread is not specifically about genesis, I think the below videos contribute well to the overall discussion;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BP1PpDyDCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffWo7nzL66o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o26Ad-WdjOw

 

[Sparkey]

Don't even tell me you've never tried shellfish.

I've never tried shellfish.

 

[Sparkey]

Proverbs 26:5 KJV

Mt 5:22

[Not Edited (Yet)] Marking my place for future "reply to: address the subject, not the man" - Sparrowhawke