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chessman said:
I thanked him for sharing his point and for teaching me something I’d never noticed before. Which I guess is similar to telling him he was right. But technically, no, I didn’t tell him he was right and I was wrong because I’d never told him him he was wrong in the first place. I kept that to myself.
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And that's one thing I like about you. We need more of that.
 
StoveBolts said:
wondering , JLB ,JohnDB ,OzSpen ,WIP

Some of you may recall many years ago when Vic was Admin. Those were the very early days of the forum when Universalism was the topic that permeated the board. FineLinen was very active and actually, hes a pretty nice guy with a heart for the Lord. I believe he is over at .com now.

After that, we had the Catholic, Orthodox and Athiests take over the board. Systematic theology started to take over the board as Vic assigned them as Moderators. Soon afterwards, it became a witch hunt to "keep doctrine pure".
As a Church of Christ member, I was attacked repeated times to the point I stepped down as Moderator and Judy, the other Admin stepped down prior. Vic stood his ground, but it cleared this place out.

That group started their own forum and they made it their duty to attack other online Christian forums like locusts destroy a crop. They were stupid enough to openly post their next exploit on their forum and brag about getting banned from "another" site.

It was only a matter of time when there were no more forums to consume. So they started consuming themselves. The leader was very head strong, and would not extend any grace. He held absolute scriptural truth.... he ended up alone on that forum and I think it's just a web page now. I havent looked in years.

I say this because I know what happens when one defines Christianity so tight they leave no room for another viewpoint and when we go over the SOF, we will try to give tolerable room for differing views.

Personally, I do not ascribe to OSAS, but I have found that most of them are pretty decent people. It should be obvious this will be addressed in our SOF, but what's more important, and what will carry more weight is our TOS which will have a heavy emphasis on how we are treated, and how we treat others.

Everyone currently on this site knows how to play nice in the sand box without compromising the truths you hold. I honestly think this is one of the best memberships and moderator groups I've seen.
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Agreed.


And....


Don’t forget the Preterist’s led by Storm Crow.



JLB
 
OzSpen said:
Truthfrees,

I've suggested this approach, based on one of the dictionaries: discuss, confer about, talk over, talk through, talk about, exchange views on, exchange views about.

It seems to me that one of the good ways for this exchange of views to proceed is by use of questions for clarification to make sure I have a handle on your understanding of Word of Faith, another's belief in cessationism, or promotion of baptismal regeneration.

This takes a lot of time, using small posts. I can see people giving up on the process and getting to the core - with confrontation.

I know that's where you don't want these discussions to go, but I know my tendency when I've had enough of back and forth is to: (1) Be more direct with the person, or (2) Say bye, bye and leave the conversation.

I'm an old man and I grow tired or impatient with people defending what is not clearly taught in Scripture.

Bed is calling.

Oz
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i understand - i guess it is an issue of patience - and that is the blessing of being in community - you only need to say what you have the patience to say and others can pick up when you lose patience

that way we can all share what we have and the patient ones can carry it to the end

rest well - God bless you with health and strength in Jesus
 
JLB said:
Yes sir.
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It amazes me because there is so much more in the Bible. I understand that we all have a theological lense that exposes our bias, and bias isnt always a bad thing, but I think we could spend a lifetime and not uncover all the jewels in Gods word. And I kind of get the idea Satan entices us to stay in a very narrow and safe box for that very purpose.
 
JLB said:
Agreed.


And....


Don’t forget the Preterist’s led by Storm Crow.



JLB
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Ha, how often have you seen me in that forums through the years. My wheelhouse is covenant theology and practical living. But yeah, I remember some of that. Those were some pretty passionate conversations if I recall!
 
wondering said:
So, maybe we need to explain what
DEBATE
DISCUSS
means?
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This is a wonderful idea. I hadn't even thought of tackling this issue in our ToS.

Everyone seems to be agreeing that the section under review before rule 1.1 is better than the content from 1.1 to the end. Some of that stuff may be necessary but if we continue swapping it out for Scripture we can probably tackle Wondering's point AND make our ToS much shorter.
 
Razeontherock said:
This is a wonderful idea. I hadn't even thought of tackling this issue in our ToS.

Everyone seems to be agreeing that the section under review before rule 1.1 is better than the content from 1.1 to the end. Some of that stuff may be necessary but if we continue swapping it out for Scripture we can probably tackle Wondering's point AND make our ToS much shorter.
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Must log off, but I DO agree with your second paragraph.
Once the idea of how this site is expected to be and the vision explained...what more needs to be said?? It's all unnecessary detail as far as I'm concerned...but, like I've said, I just don't know enough about this.
Tomorrow...
 
StoveBolts said:
Ha, how often have you seen me in that forums through the years. My wheelhouse is covenant theology and practical living. But yeah, I remember some of that. Those were some pretty passionate conversations if I recall!
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Yes sir. Passionate.

With our dear sister Reba right in the middle of it, trying to get me to behave.

:couch



JLB
 
JLB said:
I think the vote part could serve as a healthy balance for our Forum, as we develop the TOS and Statement of Faith over the next year.


I’m not saying it will take a year to develope these, but after they are implemented, I believe they will face new challenges that we have yet to see.

Kinda like Amendments to the Constitution.


This will also relieve some pressure off of the staff, knowing that we are all in a process of transformation and what we employ now as the new TOS and SOF, may be amended over the next few months as we see new people join.


Just a thought.



JLB
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Here we may find the pattern for such a “vote”, which really came about in the form of a new crisis, a dispute over doctrine.


  • The matter was considered:


Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.


  • A decision was made:

Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church...


  • The decision was recorded:

They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:


  • The Holy Spirit worked with them:

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:



Just my thoughts.




JLB
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

I enthusiastically support that view. To 'private revelation' being excluded, I'd add 'I feel God is saying from this Scripture', or something like that.

Oz
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Yes, I'd have to agree to that too.
God says individual things to us...they are meant for us.
The only instrument we could use to discuss doctrine is the bible...
the written word. If we can find support from another source, it can be listed, but it must be biblically based.

What God told someone personally doesn't really interest me too much and it shouldn't interest anyone. If I give my OPINION, it should be stated as such; otherwise it should be some kind of learning from an official source...a church for instance; a theologian, a biblical scholar, etc. The Holy Spirit guided all these persons...some act as if they cannot learn from anyone but the Holy Spirit...

I'd just like to clarify that I DO believe in learning from the Spirit of God, I just don't think it should be disseminated. (unless it's biblically sound).
 
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JLB said:
Yes sir. Passionate.

With our dear sister Reba right in the middle of it, trying to get me to behave.

:couch



JLB
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Yeah.... even though I left shortly after you got here, I remember!
Ahhhhhh, we have more in common than you may realize lol. It helps me give grace to others
JLB said:
Here we may find the pattern for such a “vote”, which really came about in the form of a new crisis, a dispute over doctrine.


  • The matter was considered:


Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.


  • A decision was made:

Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church...


  • The decision was recorded:

They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:


  • The Holy Spirit worked with them:

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:



Just my thoughts.




JLB
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That was a guiding passage when I had the tos discussions started. I will bring those thoughts into the SOF as well.

We need to be in daily prayer.
 
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wondering said:
What God told someone personally doesn't really interest me too much and it shouldn't interest anyone. If I give my OPINION, it should be stated as such; otherwise it should be some kind of learning from an official source...a church for instance; a theologian, a biblical scholar, etc. The Holy Spirit guided all these persons...some act as if they cannot learn from anyone but the Holy Spirit...

I'd just like to clarify that I DO believe in learning from the Spirit of God, I just don't think it should be disseminated. (unless it's biblically sound).
Click to expand...

This is where things can get a bit dangerous. We do not want to censor what is said. What we want to do is set a standard how it is said.

I've had a lot of discussions with folk like you've described above and I'm of the same mindset as Oz and have stated so to them who claim personal Revelation with no regard for the views of others.

I try to put this in practice myself. I will use words like, "This is how I understand those passages" or, "I feel this means...."

That type of language should not be threatening nor defensive. It offers trust and growth.

When we hear that type of language, it gives us insight where the other person is in their walk with our Lord. They are not our enemy. They are family. Like Steven, they can be taught and in the process of teaching, we have a chance to learn.

Paul became all things to all people so that some might be saved. He looked for opportunities to take a truth they already held and ran with it to the glory of God.

Of course, Staff is always watching for those with an agenda and we have been diligent and will remain so. It should not be our members burden. We want to offer an environment where everyone can grow.

Genesis 26 speaks of 3 wells....
 
StoveBolts said:
Genesis 26 speaks of 3 wells....
Click to expand...


Concerning the topic of interpretation of God’s word -

There is a three fold fullness to interpreting God’s word especially from the Old Testament where we find the shadows and types of Christ.


The three “wells” of interpretation:

The direct interpretation
The prophetic implication
The personal application


Three wells all from a common source.


  • The direct interpretation:

The literal understanding of what the passage is saying.

Example: The Passover lamb.

A literal lamb was slain and roasted and eaten as the Lord commanded Moses concerning the children of Israel.


  • The prophetic implication:

The Passover lamb prophetically pointed to Christ as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.



  • The personal application:


This is where the Lord speaks to us through the word, and it becomes a “rhema” word that God is saying to us, that we personally apply to our lives in that moment.

Concerning the exodus and the Passover, the Lord May be showing us He is about to deliver us out of a hard place we are in and to follow carefully the specific instructions His Spirit is giving us.



One word with three expressions of understanding.


The Spirit leads us into all truth, which can mean the fullness of the truth of God’s word which is likened to a multifaceted diamond.


Three wells of understanding with one common source.




JLB
 
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StoveBolts said:
This is where things can get a bit dangerous. We do not want to censor what is said. What we want to do is set a standard how it is said.

I've had a lot of discussions with folk like you've described above and I'm of the same mindset as Oz and have stated so to them who claim personal Revelation with no regard for the views of others.

I try to put this in practice myself. I will use words like, "This is how I understand those passages" or, "I feel this means...."

That type of language should not be threatening nor defensive. It offers trust and growth.

When we hear that type of language, it gives us insight where the other person is in their walk with our Lord. They are not our enemy. They are family. Like Steven, they can be taught and in the process of teaching, we have a chance to learn.

Paul became all things to all people so that some might be saved. He looked for opportunities to take a truth they already held and ran with it to the glory of God.

Of course, Staff is always watching for those with an agenda and we have been diligent and will remain so. It should not be our members burden. We want to offer an environment where everyone can grow.

Genesis 26 speaks of 3 wells....
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I know what you're talking about SB...it's just that I've heard some pretty weird stuff on other forums and it's such a relief that I never read such concepts on this forum. Well, maybe there were some, but they didn't last long and it was out of the norm.

They don't want to hear "This is how I understand this verse..." !
I usually stop talking to those, BTW. Right now no one here like that...

I think the TOS and the SOF will ward off some.
 
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wondering said:
I know what you're talking about SB...it's just that I've heard some pretty weird stuff on other forums and it's such a relief that I never read such concepts on this forum. Well, maybe there were some, but they didn't last long and it was out of the norm.

They don't want to hear "This is how I understand this verse..." !
I usually stop talking to those, BTW. Right now no one here like that...

I think the TOS and the SOF will ward off some.
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As long as JohnDB and I are around, and we are here to stay.... there is no need to clutter the TOS with that. Most people dont read the rules anyway and those who come here with an enlightenment disregard them anyway.
There is a reason we have the active members we have today. It didnt all happen by accident. It's more work than our members realize to cultivate a community. Just this morning I cleaned up 2 new members. One that had already posted and another who got caught in our spam filter. The filter was a pain to set up and it needs regular tweaking. It's not perfect, but it helps.
 
JLB said:
The three “wells” of interpretation:

The direct interpretation
The prophetic implication
The personal application
Click to expand...

JLB,

I think you've missed some aspects of biblical interpretation. Firstly, 'the personal application' is not interpretation. It is application of the exposition of Scripture to one's own life, the church's life, or the life of the nation.

What about:
  1. Contextual interpretation, which examines the grammatical context instead of cherry-picking verses.
  2. Grammatical interpretation, which deals with the grammar and syntax of a passage.
  3. Historical interpretation, which recognises the importance of particular historical happenings that influence a passage of Scripture. Imagine trying to interpret the Book of Obadiah without the historical view that this involved conflict between Edom and the house of Jacob. Could we know the kind of crucifixion Jesus experienced without understanding the history of Roman crucifixion?
  4. Cultural interpretation, which seeks to understand the cultural influence on Scripture. In Scripture, we need to note the way of life (culture) of the Egyptians, Palestinians, and Greeks. These are not abstract ideas but specifics that deal with the idolatry, sorcery and other forms of worship of the living God.
Oz
 
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