Catholics and the Eucharist

[humble soul]

No you've come to the wrong thread if looking for water tight Catholic Christian theology.
One thing I want to share is this;
Our priest the other day said "why did I become Catholic? In short because of the Eucharist."
The Eucharist is very important and the only way we can receive it, is to go to Mass. Therefore the Mass is central to being a Catholic.
Now I know some of you have strong anti Catholic sentiment. That's fine . I too, have some issues with the Catholic Church. And while I am here, can I thank authorities for keeping a lid on the animosity towards Catholics on here. That is very respectful and tolerant.
So yeah the little I know of the Eucharist is to do with "trans substantiation". That we are actually sharing the body of Christ. I imagine some kids might innocently question the thought of cannibalism here. I can't answer that. But I do like the thought that Jesus is entering me. I will have to defer to the experts here. Serving Zion ?
Some older Catholics go to Mass every day. Awesome really. Taking Communion daily. I think it's way to spend your elderly years. I'm not there yet.

 

[for_his_glory]

Here are three places in the NT that speaks of Jesus's ordinance on the eve of His death.

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1 Cor 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1 Cor 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1 Cor 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

John 6:54-56 is where the Catholic Church transsubstantiates the bread and the blood as being literal in the partaking of His flesh and blood. They know they are not literally eating flesh or drinking blood, but only partaking in the cruifixion of Christ.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 1Cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

Paul gives directions regarding the Lord’s Supper in 1Corinthians 11:23-29. Some have misunderstood verse 26, which says: "As often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup," and interpret it to say "take it as often as you please" But it does not say that!

It says "as often" as we observe it, "ye do show the Lord's death till He come." And Jesus commanded, "This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (Verse 25.) We do it in remembrance of the Lord's death - a memorial of His death. And memorials of momentous occasions always are observed annually, once a year, on the anniversary of the event they commemorate.

Jesus instituted this New Testament ordinance on the eve of His death. It was the 14th Abib, March/April Hebrew Lunar calendar. He was our Passover, sacrificed for us and He was sacrificed on the same exact day of the year that the Passover lambs always had been slain! As the Old Testament Passover commemorated Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, a type of sin, so the New Testament Lord’s Supper is a continuation of the Passover with different emblems commemorates Jesus' death, and our deliverance from sin. Immediately after the last Supper, Jesus and His disciples went out to Gethsemane, where, later that night, Judas Iscariot led the bloodthirsty mob who seized Jesus, and led him away to be crucified during the daylight part of the same 14th day of the month of Abib.

Seeing this was the Lord's last supper with His disciples here on earth he used the bread and the wine as a symbol of Himself being the bread of life/meat that is His word, John 6:25-59, that was ripped apart by a cat of nine tails. The wine symbolized His blood of the new testament, which was shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[Couppy]

No you've come to the wrong thread if looking for water tight Catholic Christian theology.
One thing I want to share is this;
Our priest the other day said "why did I become Catholic? In short because of the Eucharist."
The Eucharist is very important and the only way we can receive it, is to go to Mass. Therefore the Mass is central to being a Catholic.
Now I know some of you have strong anti Catholic sentiment. That's fine . I too, have some issues with the Catholic Church. And while I am here, can I thank authorities for keeping a lid on the animosity towards Catholics on here. That is very respectful and tolerant.
So yeah the little I know of the Eucharist is to do with "trans substantiation". That we are actually sharing the body of Christ. I imagine some kids might innocently question the thought of cannibalism here. I can't answer that. But I do like the thought that Jesus is entering me. I will have to defer to the experts here. Serving Zion ?
Some older Catholics go to Mass every day. Awesome really. Taking Communion daily. I think it's way to spend your elderly years. I'm not there yet.

I have a question that is bothering me, but I cannot find anywhere on forums to start a new thread. So, this question is not a direct response to your post, but has something to do with Catholics. Why do Catholics go to confession before a priest and not before God?

If you have permission to move it to a new thread please do.

 

[WIP]

I have a question that is bothering me, but I cannot find anywhere on forums to start a new thread. So, this question is not a direct response to your post, but has something to do with Catholics. Why do Catholics go to confession before a priest and not before God?

If you have permission to move it to a new thread please do.

Here's a link to Catholic Answers where this question is addressed.

In a nutshell it sounds like the Catholic church teaches that the apostles and subsequently their successors, which they consider to be the priests, bishops, cardinals, pope, etc. of today, were given authority by Jesus to forgive sins citing, John 20:21-23.

As to why the Catholic church teaching that it is required to confess to a priest and not directly to God appears to be less supported by Scripture and more supported by Church dogma or reasoning unless I missed the Scriptural reference provided.

Scripture is a little confusing about this because in spite of John 20:21-23, we are also told there is only one mediator between man and God and that is the Christ, Jesus. Scripture also indicates that man cannot forgive sins and yet, Jesus clearly gave the apostles the authority to do just that. The Catholic church reconciles this by saying that it isn't man (the priest) that is forgiving sins, it is Jesus acting through them.

Maybe some of our Catholic members can chime in with more information.

 

[humble soul]

We don't rely on scripture for everything .

 

[Couppy]

Here's a link to Catholic Answers where this question is addressed.

In a nutshell it sounds like the Catholic church teaches that the apostles and subsequently their successors, which they consider to be the priests, bishops, cardinals, pope, etc. of today, were given authority by Jesus to forgive sins citing, John 20:21-23.

As to why the Catholic church teaching that it is required to confess to a priest and not directly to God appears to be less supported by Scripture and more supported by Church dogma or reasoning unless I missed the Scriptural reference provided.

Scripture is a little confusing about this because in spite of John 20:21-23, we are also told there is only one mediator between man and God and that is the Christ, Jesus. Scripture also indicates that man cannot forgive sins and yet, Jesus clearly gave the apostles the authority to do just that. The Catholic church reconciles this by saying that it isn't man (the priest) that is forgiving sins, it is Jesus acting through them.

Maybe some of our Catholic members can chime in with more information.

Thanks. I will check out the link provided to Catholic answers.

 

[Couppy]

Here's a link to Catholic Answers where this question is addressed.

In a nutshell it sounds like the Catholic church teaches that the apostles and subsequently their successors, which they consider to be the priests, bishops, cardinals, pope, etc. of today, were given authority by Jesus to forgive sins citing, John 20:21-23.

As to why the Catholic church teaching that it is required to confess to a priest and not directly to God appears to be less supported by Scripture and more supported by Church dogma or reasoning unless I missed the Scriptural reference provided.

Scripture is a little confusing about this because in spite of John 20:21-23, we are also told there is only one mediator between man and God and that is the Christ, Jesus. Scripture also indicates that man cannot forgive sins and yet, Jesus clearly gave the apostles the authority to do just that. The Catholic church reconciles this by saying that it isn't man (the priest) that is forgiving sins, it is Jesus acting through them.

Maybe some of our Catholic members can chime in with more information.

James 5:16 "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." is not only referring to priests and apostles but to every Christian.

There are sins that are committed against people that can be owned up to before people, but there are sins of disobedience to God's word that must be confessed before God for forgiveness. If you hurt someone, it would be a good idea to apologize to the person and forgiveness is sought.

 

[humble soul]

In a nutshell it sounds like the Catholic church teaches that the apostles and subsequently their successors, which they consider to be the priests, bishops, cardinals, pope, etc. of today, were given authority by Jesus to forgive sins .

The apostles, and now priests, are acting on behalf of Jesus. So essentially we are confessing our sins to Jesus. I don't look on it as confessing to a priest.
Confession can be very therapeutic and a great release of a burden we carry around called guilt. Non Catholics have to rely on prayer. Telling God directly. You may say that it's good to cut out the middle man. I disagree. A priest can be quite helpful. Depends on the priest though. The effort you make to attend the sacrament of confession and make a good one has more merit than saying to God "hey I'm really sorry I stole that money from my employer last week". In my opinion. It's worth making a big deal about it.

 

[Serving Zion]

No you've come to the wrong thread if looking for water tight Catholic Christian theology.
One thing I want to share is this;
Our priest the other day said "why did I become Catholic? In short because of the Eucharist."
The Eucharist is very important and the only way we can receive it, is to go to Mass. Therefore the Mass is central to being a Catholic.
Now I know some of you have strong anti Catholic sentiment. That's fine . I too, have some issues with the Catholic Church. And while I am here, can I thank authorities for keeping a lid on the animosity towards Catholics on here. That is very respectful and tolerant.
So yeah the little I know of the Eucharist is to do with "trans substantiation". That we are actually sharing the body of Christ. I imagine some kids might innocently question the thought of cannibalism here. I can't answer that. But I do like the thought that Jesus is entering me. I will have to defer to the experts here. Serving Zion ?
Some older Catholics go to Mass every day. Awesome really. Taking Communion daily. I think it's way to spend your elderly years. I'm not there yet.

Yeah hi there and thanks for the invite, but I really don't have much expertise in Catholicism per-se. Having said that though, I recognise there is only one true faith, one gate and one shepherd of the gate, and yet there is one field containing both wheat and weeds, sheep and wolves in sheep's clothing, the carnal and the spiritual. What I say, in an attempt to be reconciliatory, is that Jesus Christ has the whole truth, and over time there has been much confusion around questions raised where the answers have come from people not speaking for Him but in the futility of their thinking.

So whenever I see confusion around Catholic doctrine, I defer to scripture and seek to imagine how they have managed to think that the doctrine answers the question that the scripture has raised. Therefore I understand it to my own satisfaction, and sometimes I feel like I understand it better than others who have been taught the doctrine but have not thought about it so much. Errors are often made by those who wrongly assume the authority to dismiss an untaught opinion, but that's all part and parcel of it.

Transubstantiation appears to be an attempt to merge the Last Supper with a particularly poignant event, whereby Jesus has said "I am the bread of life that comes down from heaven. My flesh is real flesh and my blood is real drink". Unless you eat my flesh (hear the Word of God) and drink my blood (will you be satisfied by piercing me?), there can be no life in you. I keep the two events distinct in my view because Jesus has instituted one before the other, and He even attached a promise to the former that had already taken effect before the latter.

As for confession, it is never wise to confess to a man unless it is for wisdom's sake (Jeremiah 9:4, Revelation 16:15), but confession is typically used by those who seek reconciliation with God (ie: they seek salvation rather than possessing it). The Lord is able to give counsel when we ask (Isaiah 57:15, Isaiah 9:6), but how can a person who is in need of reconciliation approach God until he has been reconciled? That is precisely the role of the priesthood - and when we are a vessel for The Holy Spirit, we ought to be approachable as faithful servants in that capacity. I believe that is how the Catholic tradition of confession has originated, and I think that is pretty consistent with the way you described it (ie: 1 John 1:9, Matthew 23:9, 1 John 4:4b).

 

[Couppy]

The apostles, and now priests, are acting on behalf of Jesus. So essentially we are confessing our sins to Jesus. I don't look on it as confessing to a priest.
Confession can be very therapeutic and a great release of a burden we carry around called guilt. Non Catholics have to rely on prayer. Telling God directly. You may say that it's good to cut out the middle man. I disagree. A priest can be quite helpful. Depends on the priest though. The effort you make to attend the sacrament of confession and make a good one has more merit than saying to God "hey I'm really sorry I stole that money from my employer last week". In my opinion. It's worth making a big deal about it.

I spent my primary and secondary school days attending Catholic Churches. I was in boarding school during my secondary school days. As much as I enjoyed visiting the convents, I saw and heard enough to be wary of priests. They are human beings and confessing to them give them so much power over the confessor, that sometimes I wonder if blackmail does not happen within the Church.

If a child of God is not comfortable approaching their father to ask for forgiveness, I wonder about their relationship and how close it is. A child who feels loved by their father feels more free to approach him than looking for an intermediary to tell him what's on their mind. It all comes down to the kind of relationship between son/daughter and God.

 

[Couppy]

The Lord is able to give counsel when we ask (Isaiah 57:15, Isaiah 9:6), but how can a person who is in need of reconciliation approach God until he has been reconciled? That is precisely the role of the priesthood - and when we are a vessel for The Holy Spirit, we ought to be approachable as faithful servants in that capacity. I believe that is how the Catholic tradition of confession has originated, and I think that is pretty consistent with the way you described it (ie: 1 John 1:9, Matthew 23:9, 1 John 4:4b).

I agree that someone cannot approach God until he has been reconciled, and that why Jesus came to die for our sins so that we can be reconciled to God. "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation." 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. The role of the priest and Christians is to point people to reconcile with God through Jesus Christ.

I personally feel the Catholic Church has got the idea of confession all wrong by quoting that Jesus told the apostles to forgive sins and that means their priests. Yes, I believe the apostles can forgive sins, so can any Church as a whole. Any Church can retain the sin of anyone and that sin will be retained. A Christian can retain the sin of another person if they offend them, and it can be retained. It is the power of the divine nature in us. Any Christian can ask God to forgive the sins of another and not count it against them. Stephen did exactly that, and he was not one of the apostles, when he was being stoned to death in Acts 7:59 "As Stephen was being stoned to death, he called out, “Lord Jesus, please welcome me!” 60 He knelt down and shouted, “Lord, don’t blame them for what they have done." Then he died."

 

[humble soul]

I spent my primary and secondary school days attending Catholic Churches. I was in boarding school during my secondary school days. As much as I enjoyed visiting the convents, I saw and heard enough to be wary of priests. They are human beings and confessing to them give them so much power over the confessor, that sometimes I wonder if blackmail does not happen within the Church.

If a child of God is not comfortable approaching their father to ask for forgiveness, I wonder about their relationship and how close it is. A child who feels loved by their father feels more free to approach him than looking for an intermediary to tell him what's on their mind. It all comes down to the kind of relationship between son/daughter and God.

So you were a Catholic? And knew the answer to your question already?

 

[WIP]

The apostles, and now priests, are acting on behalf of Jesus. So essentially we are confessing our sins to Jesus. I don't look on it as confessing to a priest.
Confession can be very therapeutic and a great release of a burden we carry around called guilt. Non Catholics have to rely on prayer. Telling God directly. You may say that it's good to cut out the middle man. I disagree. A priest can be quite helpful. Depends on the priest though. The effort you make to attend the sacrament of confession and make a good one has more merit than saying to God "hey I'm really sorry I stole that money from my employer last week". In my opinion. It's worth making a big deal about it.

I never said it was good to cut out the middle man. To the contrary, confession is one of the things that I miss from my Catholic upbringing and I have expressed this opinion in our own Lutheran church. Also, as Couppy has already shared, James teaches that it is good to confess our sins to one another.

One of the things I don't agree with about confession as it is done in the Catholic church is the use of prayer as penance. The definition of penance is self-punishment. Since when is prayer to be a form of punishment? Where in Scripture does it say that we are to punish ourselves after forgiveness and use prayer toward that end? Prayer is conversation with God. In prayer we give glory to God, express gratitude, love, affection, and present Him with our petitions and needs. In confession God has forgiven me by declaration of the priest and there is no more need for me to punish myself, rather, I should be joyful with my new found freedom from my sins for in confession, God is "faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9 NKJV) and that is something to be joyful about.

 

[WIP]

I personally feel the Catholic Church has got the idea of confession all wrong by quoting that Jesus told the apostles to forgive sins and that means their priests. Yes, I believe the apostles can forgive sins, so can any Church as a whole. Any Church can retain the sin of anyone and that sin will be retained. A Christian can retain the sin of another person if they offend them, and it can be retained. It is the power of the divine nature in us. Any Christian can ask God to forgive the sins of another and not count it against them. Stephen did exactly that, and he was not one of the apostles, when he was being stoned to death in Acts 7:59 "As Stephen was being stoned to death, he called out, “Lord Jesus, please welcome me!” 60 He knelt down and shouted, “Lord, don’t blame them for what they have done." Then he died."

To this point, Scripture tells us that if we do not forgive others, God will not forgive us.

Matthew 6:14-15 NKJV
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

 

[Couppy]

So you were a Catholic? And knew the answer to your question already?

I attended Catholic Church when I was young, going through primary and secondary schools, because I attended Catholic schools. Was I a Catholic? No, I was too young to choose a denomination. I just knew I attended A church.
Did I understand what was going on at that age? No. Like many children dragged to Church or forced to go to Church, I had no idea. I was compelled to attend Catholic Church because I attended their schools.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The new covenant mediated or presented through Jesus offers this forgiveness of sins and presents us as just and right before God. Why would there need to be any penance (self punishment) for something that is forgiven and remembered no more by God.

Why are Catholics told by the Priest to say three hail Mary's after confession is made as Mary, who is in her grave like everyone else that has ever died, can not be our mediator before the Father. She is not the Holy mother of God, but is blessed above all other women for the fact that she was chosen to birth the Christ child as she was from the
descent that came through David's son Nathan, Luke 3:31. To fulfill God's promise to establish David's throne forever, God honored Nathan by making him the ancestor of the promised King (Messiah) who would sit on David's throne throughout eternity, Luke 1:31-33. Mary having no brothers to inherit the throne the inheritance would come to her first son being Jesus.

This is why God found favor only in Mary as still being a virgin before she married. Joseph descent from David was broken in being heir to the throne of David as one of his ancestors named Jeconiah (Coniah) was so evil God cursed him and his descendants from ever sitting on the throne of David, Matthew 1:1-17; Jeremiah 22:24-30; 1 Chronicles 3:17. This doesn't mean that Joseph was evil, but means none of his children could ever sit on the throne of David.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

A priest can be quite helpful. Depends on the priest though.

If the Priest is a Born again Christian, then they can certainly give valuable Spiritual advice. One led my wife into the Born Again experience back when she was a Roman Catholic. If they're only a "Catholic", not so much.