First Six Trumpets

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

In your zeal to be a witness for the Lord how can we reconcile "enduring until the end" with the saved are now citizen of heaven and are now the children of God. As I have stated before salvation is a 3 stage process.
1. We are saved from the power of sin.
2. We are saved from the penalty of sin.
3. We will be saved from the presence of sin.

If we have to endure until the end then you cannot have confidence that you are now a "child of God". Scripture tells us that those that are saved are children of God and have a heavenly citizenship, not a worldly citizenship. In Matthew 24:14 the gospel that is to be preached to all the world is the gospel of the kingdom. What we preach today and until the "Church" be taken out is the gospel of the grace of God.

Jesus paid the ultimate price for sin, but we are not yet saved from it until Christ returns and makes an end to all abominations in this world as He cast it into the lake of fire, Rev 19:11-21; 20:10. Meanwhile we are instructed to walk in the Spirit so sin does not have dominion over us, Romans Chapter 6, 8; Colossians 3.

There are no stages of salvation as it comes by God's free gift of grace through faith which is Christ Jesus to all who will believe, Ephesians 2:8. It's up to each individual to guard themselves from sinning, but yet we will at times when we allow sin to have dominion over that of the indwelling Holy Spirit that we need to be walking in. We all fall short at times, but yet we have a mediator in Christ Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us.

I have confidence that I am a child of God through the Spiritual rebirth and the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit who is our promise of our inheritance as I confess Christ as Lord and Savior John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10; Ephesians 1:1-14. Satan will always tempt us as we endure the evil that is in this world until the promise of our redemption comes when Christ returns and makes an end to all abominations of this world.

 

[for_his_glory]

if not careful endurance salvation can lead to work based salvation .how often we forget it is kept by the power of God

Not sure how you see endurance leading to work base salvation. The biggest temptation Satan will use in the end of days is that of working through the son of perdition who will promise peace, safety to all who will bow down and take its mark, Rev 13. Many will believe the lying signs and wonders that could even deceive the very elect of God if possible, Matthew 24:24.

To those who believe in a pretrb or even a mid-trib rapture how do you deal with the sign Jesus gave us in Matthew 24:29-31 for His return and the gathering of His Bride as no one will know the day or the hour and He only returns once at the last day, John 6:40.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[ezra]

Not sure how you see endurance leading to work base salvation. The biggest temptation Satan will use in the end of days is that of working through the son of perdition who will promise peace, safety to all who will bow down and take its mark, Rev 13. Many will believe the lying signs and wonders that could even deceive the very elect of God if possible, Matthew 24:24.

To those who believe in a pretrb or even a mid-trib rapture how do you deal with the sign Jesus gave us in Matthew 24:29-31 for His return and the gathering of His Bride as no one will know the day or the hour and He only returns once at the last day, John 6:40.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

are you still stuck on the anti agenda of pre trib. for if you are thats platform.. i will be ready that day will not take me unaware .when it happens on his time line . there will be things we have to endure . but as to our salvation a endurance ? what dont know what the endurance is ..peter wrote we have a inheritance 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that isimperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved inheaven for you, 5who through faith are {protected by God’s power} for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.… i said if not careful endurance could be a work based salvation
Matthew 24:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

reading commentates < sigh> everyone has one lol it appears as a time of apostasy i would hope true Christians not fall for same false teaching to many jump on math 24:13 using the ye old endurance to be saved . why is it we add conditions to salvation ? we have the osas crowd waving banner scriptures and the osnas waving banner scriptures . i was talking to a pastor friend of mine darn good preacher.. i was telling about going into a southern baptist church as a pastor me ordained gen baptist on paper only .i had pass the litmus test on osas my reply i have a know so salvation and i am secure in my salvation . i would hope you would be secure in yours also.. he then proceed tell me he believed one could backslide that is Bible . see i never said you could or could not lose your salvation . my point is the Bible says we kept by the power of GOD . i cant prove what the endurance si and what the saved is can you show me in scripture thus saith the Lord ?

 

[for_his_glory]

are you still stuck on the anti agenda of pre trib. for if you are thats platform.. i will be ready that day will not take me unaware .when it happens on his time line . there will be things we have to endure . but as to our salvation a endurance ? what dont know what the endurance is ..peter wrote we have a inheritance 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that isimperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved inheaven for you, 5who through faith are {protected by God’s power} for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.… i said if not careful endurance could be a work based salvation
Matthew 24:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

reading commentates < sigh> everyone has one lol it appears as a time of apostasy i would hope true Christians not fall for same false teaching to many jump on math 24:13 using the ye old endurance to be saved . why is it we add conditions to salvation ? we have the osas crowd waving banner scriptures and the osnas waving banner scriptures . i was talking to a pastor friend of mine darn good preacher.. i was telling about going into a southern baptist church as a pastor me ordained gen baptist on paper only .i had pass the litmus test on osas my reply i have a know so salvation and i am secure in my salvation . i would hope you would be secure in yours also.. he then proceed tell me he believed one could backslide that is Bible . see i never said you could or could not lose your salvation . my point is the Bible says we kept by the power of GOD . i cant prove what the endurance si and what the saved is can you show me in scripture thus saith the Lord ?

Most commentaries are just that of a lack of full context as only partual is used in support and I have no time for them. If it is as you call it a platform I am on than to me it is a good one to show others what scripture truly says in that which is already written without adding anything to it, or taking away from it.

You are the one who brought up endurance leading to work base salvation and I asked you how you saw that to be within my OP.

Another brought up pretrib which has nothing to do with this thread, but I ran with it anyway, because I once believed all those teachings only to find them to be false according to scripture, not commentaries.

How can we be aware of Christ's return if we ignore the signs He has already given us that are very clear in scripture. The only thing we do not know is the day or the hour other then it being the last day.

What is it we are to endure and what does it mean unto the end? The end of what?

There are no conditions to salvation nor can we work for it as it comes by God's free gift of grace, but there are consequences if we do not endure the evil in this world, which is what God's mighty wrath to come is all about, as many will fear that which must come first and lose faith through the temptations set before them/us.

What we are to endure until the coming of the Lord on the last day are all those things Jesus taught us in Matthew 24:1-44 and revealed to John in the Revelations. We are kept by the power of God as what is written in 1 Peter 1:3-9 that He is our hope in times of trials and tribulations. We have not received an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance as of yet, but only the hope of it as long as we endure the temptations of this world until the coming of the Lord after the tribulations taught us in Matthew 24 and Rev 13.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[ezra]

Most commentaries are just that of a lack of full context as only partual is used in support and I have no time for them

i use them and learn from them..but yet you post your comments which is the same as commentates

There are no conditions to salvation nor can we work for it as it comes by God's free gift of grace, but there are consequences if we do not endure the evil in this world, which is what God's mighty wrath to come is all about, as many will fear that which must come first and lose faith through the temptations set before them/us.

What we are to endure until the coming of the Lord on the last day are all those things Jesus taught us in Matthew 24:1-44and revealed to John in the Revelations. We are kept by the power of God as what is written in 1 Peter 1:3-9 that He is our hope in times of trials and tribulations. We have not received an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance as of yet, but only the hope of it as long as we endure the temptations of this world until the coming of the Lord after the tribulations taught us in Matthew 24 and Rev 13.

i agree on the consequences there always has and always will be

We have not received an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance as of yet,

yet peter wrote we are born of the incorruptible seed
22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed,but of imperishable, through the living and "enduringword" of God. 24 have we received our full inheritance yet? no but the free gift is part of the package deal
< You are the one who brought up endurance leading to work base salvation and I asked you how you saw that to be within my OP. > i said if not careful enduring salvation can be a work based salvation . it was a comment no one said you was pushing a enduring salvation. we are to endure hardships as a good solider .but not for salvation

 

[for_his_glory]

i use them and learn from them..but yet you post your comments which is the same as commentates
i agree on the consequences there always has and always will be yet peter wrote we are born of the incorruptible seed
22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed,but of imperishable, through the living and "enduringword" of God. 24 have we received our full inheritance yet? no but the free gift is part of the package deal
< You are the one who brought up endurance leading to work base salvation and I asked you how you saw that to be within my OP. > i said if not careful enduring salvation can be a work based salvation . it was a comment no one said you was pushing a enduring salvation. we are to endure hardships as a good solider .but not for salvation

There are commentaries when full context of scripture is presented along with historical facts like I give so one can go read and study them for themselves, praying first and asking the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Then you have jump on the bandwagon copycat commentaries that line the pockets of those teachers who teach that of a theory that was presented in the 1800's as it was never taught before that time as Jesus never taught a pre or mid trib, but said He returns on the last day when the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken (God's wrath).

What I give comes straight from scripture as what the six trumpets of God's great wrath being poured out into the world will bring about here on earth and the affects of it on those who refuse to turn back to God. We who are Spiritually born again are indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit as God's wrath will not fall on us as we are kept by Him during this time. In all the chaous this will be a time of greater faith and trust in the Lord especially during the time of the mark of the beast. I never ask anyone to believe me, but to study the full context of scripture and draw their own conclusions by what is already written.

 

[Razeontherock]

Yes, he only returns one more time. The rapture isn't a return -he shouts and calls us up to meet him in the clouds.

Rev 12:6 - if you read that verse only and assume that "the woman" is the Church then yes, I can see how you would get that impression, but when you look at the facts like the 12 stars in her crown (12 tribes), the fact that in verse 5 she brings "forth a man child who was to rule all nations" and "her child was caught up unto God and to his throne" - that's Jesus. Looking at his human genealogy, he is of Jewish birth. The church didn't bring forth Christ. The nation of Israel did. And the church was never in the wilderness (verse 6), but Israel was and Jesus was for that matter.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, when Jesus says they need to flee to the wilderness in that day he's talking to those in Judea that honor the sabbath day - the Jewish people, not the Christians.

Sorry, dude. Not going to give in on this one.
Christ is coming for his Church and I can't wait!

The devil doesn't like this at all. There was ample opportunity for misunderstanding, accusation, and generally doing his bidding.

Instead, we were able to discuss and share in godly fashion

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

The problem that I see when Revelation is applied to the body of Christ as a future timeline is that John was an apostle to the circumcision. The church is not subject to the same circumcision as the Jewish people. There will be no kingdom that the Church will be ruled by, but there is a kingdom that will be established for the Jewish survivors of the tribulation period. There will be 12,000 from each tribe that will be sealed during the tribulation. It will be those 144,000(not as J W's) that will fulfill Matthew 28:19-20. The "great commission", as it is called, is the most misunderstood scripture by many believers that believe that it applies to the church. The believers of the age of grace are witnesses to a lost and dying world by the daily life that we live as "separate from the world but living in the world"

 

[for_his_glory]

dirtfarmer here

You don't have to answer this, but are you Jehovah Witness as you mentioned the 144,000 not as JW?

The problem that I see when Revelation is applied to the body of Christ as a future timeline is that John was an apostle to the circumcision. The church is not subject to the same circumcision as the Jewish people. There will be no kingdom that the Church will be ruled by, but there is a kingdom that will be established for the Jewish survivors of the tribulation period. There will be 12,000 from each tribe that will be sealed during the tribulation. It will be those 144,000(not as J W's) that will fulfill Matthew 28:19-20. The "great commission", as it is called, is the most misunderstood scripture by many believers that believe that it applies to the church. The believers of the age of grace are witnesses to a lost and dying world by the daily life that we live as "separate from the world but living in the world"

According to Acts 11:19-26 it was the Disciples that were commissioned by Christ in Matthew 18:19, 20 as they went about to establish the church (body of Christ) and were the first ones to be called Christians in Antioch. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

Rev 7:1-4 John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all other nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[for_his_glory]

The devil doesn't like this at all. There was ample opportunity for misunderstanding, accusation, and generally doing his bidding.

Instead, we were able to discuss and share in godly fashion

As well as we should in all discussions even if we do not always agree we are still brothers and sisters in Christ first and foremost and also ever learning.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[dirtfarmer]

According to Acts 11:19-26 it was the Disciples that were commissioned by Christ in Matthew 18:19, 20 as they went about to establish the church (body of Christ) and were the first ones to be called Christians in Antioch. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

Rev 7:1-4 John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all other nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

As far as "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch", these were not "the twelve" but the followers in Antioch.

In Romans 10 it is stated in verse 26 that all Israel will be saved; does the word "all" mean every Israelite? or is it reference to the sealing of the 144,000 from every tribe in Revelation that will be the "all Israel" in the tribulation ? These 144,000 will be left in order to preach the earthly kingdom that God promised Abraham. It is my belief that God promised Abram a spiritual kingdom (the Church) and an earthly kingdom(Israel).

Do you see a "spiritual" seed of Abraham and an " earthly seed " Abraham?

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

As far as "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch", these were not "the twelve" but the followers in Antioch.

In Romans 10 it is stated in verse 26 that all Israel will be saved; does the word "all" mean every Israelite? or is it reference to the sealing of the 144,000 from every tribe in Revelation that will be the "all Israel" in the tribulation ? These 144,000 will be left in order to preach the earthly kingdom that God promised Abraham. It is my belief that God promised Abram a spiritual kingdom (the Church) and an earthly kingdom(Israel).

Do you see a "spiritual" seed of Abraham and an " earthly seed " Abraham?

Romans 11:25-32 is the promise of Israel's restoration. This happens after the Gentiles tread under foot for 42 months in Jerusalem, Rev 11:1,2. The timing of this occurs at the last 3 1/2 years of the sounding of the seventh trumpet when the beast out of the sea gives power to the beast out of the earth causing all to take it's mark as these Gentiles take control over all nations with its headquarters in Jerusalem, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Rev 13. The restoration comes when Christ returns and this present 1st heaven and earth pass away and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from Heaven, Rev 21.

All are Israel, Jew and the Gentile that are grafted into the branch, the seed of Abraham as we all have the same inheritance.

 

[Razeontherock]

All are Israel, Jew and the Gentile that are grafted into the branch, the seed of Abraham as we all have the same inheritance.

I agree. Which is why I also think that passages like Rev 12 do pertain to us Gentiles / goyem. Christ lives in us? So we "gave birth" to Him! Who here hasn't had "the dragon wroth with" us?

Notice this also has the moon under our feet, and us clothed with the Sun! Such magnificent figures of speech ...

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree. Which is why I also think that passages like Rev 12 do pertain to us Gentiles / goyem. Christ lives in us? So we "gave birth" to Him! Who here hasn't had "the dragon wroth with" us?

Notice this also has the moon under our feet, and us clothed with the Sun! Such magnificent figures of speech ...

Rev 12:1-6
John is shown a great sign in heaven as he sees a vision of a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet. The sun is representative of the glory and brilliance of Gods righteousness that surrounds her and protects her. Under her feet the moon which is illustrative of eternity, light, Gods faithfulness in His Son Jesus who is the greater light of the gospel age as Jesus being the light of the world that shines in darkness, but the darkness can not comprehend the light, Psalms 72:5-7; Isaiah 2:3-5; Jeremiah 31:35-37; Isaiah 30:26-33; John 1:1-5.

The woman is symbolic of Israel and the congregation of Gods people as she wears a crown of twelve stars which represents the twelve tribes of Israel that have repented of their arrogance as they felt they deserved Gods favor, but yet kept killing the prophets God sent to them, including the very Messiah they were waiting for. This is when the times of the Gentiles began as God went to them to take Himself a people that were humbled enough to receive salvation as God had mercy on them, Matthew 23:37-39; Acts 15:14; Romans 11:25-27.

Paul also warned the Gentiles against being lifted up in pride because they had been favored by God with salvation as he explained the blindness of Israel would not last forever as when they see the Gentiles now having favor in the Lord and being grafted into the branch of Israel they repent of their sin and turn back to God being once again found in His favor, Romans Chapter 11.

The true congregation of God can be symbolized here as a mother that has all here children gathered in one place for safety which in this case is under the wings of the almighty God, Psalms 91. She cries out like a woman in labor as the pain of her persecutions has become too great to bear as she waits to be delivered from her persecutors, 2 Timothy 4:18; 2 Peter 2:9; Colossians 1:13.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Romans 11:25-32 is the promise of Israel's restoration. This happens after the Gentiles tread under foot for 42 months in Jerusalem, Rev 11:1,2. The timing of this occurs at the last 3 1/2 years of the sounding of the seventh trumpet when the beast out of the sea gives power to the beast out of the earth causing all to take it's mark as these Gentiles take control over all nations with its headquarters in Jerusalem, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Rev 13. The restoration comes when Christ returns and this present 1st heaven and earth pass away and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from Heaven, Rev 21.

All are Israel, Jew and the Gentile that are grafted into the branch, the seed of Abraham as we all have the same inheritance.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

In Revelation 21:9 who do you say the bride of Christ is? Also in chapter 20:5 who are "the rest of the dead" that didn't live until the thousand years were finished?
In 2 Thessalonians 2:11 to whom is God going to send "strong delusion" to?

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

In Revelation 21:9 who do you say the bride of Christ is? Also in chapter 20:5 who are "the rest of the dead" that didn't live until the thousand years were finished?
In 2 Thessalonians 2:11 to whom is God going to send "strong delusion" to?

The Bride of Christ are those who are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit washed in the blood of the Lamb. They are those who confess Christ as Lord and Savior as they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb, Isaiah 1:18; Matthew 26:26-28; John 3:5-7; Romans 3:25; 10:9-10, Ephesians 2:8; 2:13; Hebrews 10:19, 20; 13:12; 20-21; 1 John 2:2; Rev 1:5; 7:14.

The rest of the dead are those on the last day that will be raised to damnation and cast into the lake of fire as they never repented of their sin and rejected faith in Christ, John 5:28, 29.

Strong delusion comes to those who know not Christ nor sealed by the Holy Spirit through the Spiritual rebirth as they have no part of the inheritance which is the Kingdom of God in the New Jerusalem. They will bow down and worship the beast taking its mark sealing their fate forever, Rev 13; 14:9-12.

 

[dirtfarmer]

The Bride of Christ are those who are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit washed in the blood of the Lamb. They are those who confess Christ as Lord and Savior as they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb, Isaiah 1:18; Matthew 26:26-28; John 3:5-7; Romans 3:25; 10:9-10, Ephesians 2:8; 2:13; Hebrews 10:19, 20; 13:12; 20-21; 1 John 2:2; Rev 1:5; 7:14.

The rest of the dead are those on the last day that will be raised to damnation and cast into the lake of fire as they never repented of their sin and rejected faith in Christ, John 5:28, 29.

Strong delusion comes to those who know not Christ nor sealed by the Holy Spirit through the Spiritual rebirth as they have no part of the inheritance which is the Kingdom of God in the New Jerusalem. They will bow down and worship the beast taking its mark sealing their fate forever, Rev 13; 14:9-12.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

I know that "the Bride of Christ" are the believers that have been indwelt by the Spirit because they have been washed in the blood, but you have not answered "the rest of the dead that lived not again until the thousand years were finished". I understand that this group are those that have not been resurrected in Christ (born again) and are subject to die a second time to spend eternity in the lake of fire. Their resurrection happens after the 1000 year earthly kingdom comes to a close.

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

I know that "the Bride of Christ" are the believers that have been indwelt by the Spirit because they have been washed in the blood, but you have not answered "the rest of the dead that lived not again until the thousand years were finished". I understand that this group are those that have not been resurrected in Christ (born again) and are subject to die a second time to spend eternity in the lake of fire. Their resurrection happens after the 1000 year earthly kingdom comes to a close.

I agree and answered your question about the rest of the dead in post #36.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I agree and answered your question about the rest of the dead in post #36.

hello for_His_glory, dirtfarmer here
I will ask direct: Do you believe in the earthly kingdom that will last for a 1000 years and that the "Church" will taken out before that kingdom is established

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_His_glory, dirtfarmer here
I will ask direct: Do you believe in the earthly kingdom that will last for a 1000 years and that the "Church" will taken out before that kingdom is established

Sorry I never answered before this as I just saw your reply today.

Revelation 20:1-8 is the only passage in the entire scriptures that the premillinialists have as the basis for the "1000 year reign." Rev 20:4 doesn't speak about a 1000 year reign of Christ it says "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." It's not Christ that reigns 1000 years, but those who were killed for God's sake that reign with Christ 1000 years as 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Those who reign with Christ are those souls that had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus. In Revelations 6:9-11, are the souls of martyrs who had been slain for the word of God under an altar crying for vengeance. In Rev 20:4 the martyrs are on thrones. The difference between these scriptures is God's judgment has already come to those certain martyrs. The victory came in the spirit world, not the physical, and God assured their victory.

John was shown in a vision those souls that already had the victory over death as being in Christ. When we who are of Christ die before His return God has already passed judgement on us and we have the victory in Christ over that of the second death. Those who are not of Christ will be judged and cast into the lake of fire. There is only one resurrection, but two judgements, John 5:28, 29. Those in Christ are raised first as those still alive at His coming will be gathered caught up together to meet Christ in the air to be with Christ for eternity. The rest are then raised for their judgement as rejecting Christ and there forever have their place in the lake of fire. Rev 20:4 says nothing about Jesus coming to this earth and establishing a worldly kingdom at Jerusalem.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(notice as is in being figurative and not literal.)