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Guilt

wondering

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I know how. But it's only to myself and not the world. God will not violate our free will. It is a choice to believe and to draw close to Him...then He reveals Himself. But to the individual.
Exactly. There are proofs for God, but they aren't accepted by atheists. They want that type of proof that science asks for and Jesus said the only proof we'd get was the proof of Jonah. So, 3 days and He was resurrected --- but only faith will bring about that belief.

It IS reasonable to believe in the resurrection, but you know what they say:

To a believer, no proof is necessary.
To a non-believer, no proof is sufficient.
 

Nathan12

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If the belief in hell primarily creates a mindset of fear...
Every evildoer should fear Hell and repent. Indeed God commands all men everywhere to repent. But for those who are in Christ, there is no fear of Hell.

Whether you like it or not Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire) was created for the devil and his angels. God does not want to see any human being in Hell. And that is exactly why He sent His Son into the world to die for you and me. So you do not need to fear Hell if you will turn away from your sins and idols, and turn to Christ exclusively for your salvation.
 

WIP

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Every evildoer should fear Hell and repent. Indeed God commands all men everywhere to repent. But for those who are in Christ, there is no fear of Hell.
There is also no fear of hell for unbelievers.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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There is also no fear of hell for unbelievers.



Exactly, because how could they be afraid of something if they don't believe it exists?
 

Nathan12

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There is also no fear of hell for unbelievers.
Really??? Since when?
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)
 

Nathan12

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Exactly, because how could they be afraid of something if they don't believe it exists?
Who says unbelievers do not believe that Hell exists? They use it as a swear word daily. You are probably confusing them with Annihilationists.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Who says unbelievers do not believe that Hell exists? They use it as a swear word daily. You are probably confusing them with Annihilationists.




With what?? :confused
 

WIP

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Really??? Since when?
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)
I didn't say they would have no part in the lake of fire. I said they do not fear hell. One must believe there is something to fear in order to fear it.
 

WIP

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Who says unbelievers do not believe that Hell exists? They use it as a swear word daily. You are probably confusing them with Annihilationists.
They may also use the work "heck" but heck has no physical meaning. Using the word hell doesn't necessarily mean they believe in hell. To them, it could just be an unsubstantial word.
 

Nathan12

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With what?? :confused
"Annihilationism is a belief that after the final judgment some human beings and all fallen angels will be totally destroyed so as to not exist, or that their consciousness will be extinguished, rather than suffer everlasting torment in hell."
The Annihilationist believes that the unsaved will simply be *vaporized* (annihilated) therefore there is no need for eternal Hell, therefore Hell does not exist.

But the average person fully knows that there is a Hell. 64% of Americans surveyed in 2016 said that they believed in Hell, and 13 % said they were unsure (which could mean that they might accept the truth). That's about 77% of the population.

People who whine about why a good God would create a terrible Hell generally ignore the Gospel and what it means.
 

WIP

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"Annihilationism is a belief that after the final judgment some human beings and all fallen angels will be totally destroyed so as to not exist, or that their consciousness will be extinguished, rather than suffer everlasting torment in hell."
The Annihilationist believes that the unsaved will simply be *vaporized* (annihilated) therefore there is no need for eternal Hell, therefore Hell does not exist.

But the average person fully knows that there is a Hell. 64% of Americans surveyed in 2016 said that they believed in Hell, and 13 % said they were unsure (which could mean that they might accept the truth). That's about 77% of the population.

People who whine about why a good God would create a terrible Hell generally ignore the Gospel and what it means.
It's interesting what our society is becoming despite these beliefs.
 

Nathan12

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It's interesting what our society is becoming despite these beliefs.
We should not forget that the decline in the preaching of the true Gospel is related to the decline in society.
 

Who Me

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We should not forget that the decline in the preaching of the true Gospel is related to the decline in society.
Only partially true, around the start of the 20th century believe in evolution and the attempts to prune the gospel to fit with evolution has lead to a decline in biblical based preaching, but the rejection of an intellectual Christianity is equally damaging.

Then the secular view that evolution did away with a need for God, resulted in the believe in absolute morality and that is what we have today.
 

nmwings

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If the belief in hell primarily creates a mindset of fear, that we will be punished by unimaginable pain if we do not adhere to the stipulations of Jesus the Christ. The primary stipulation that we must believe in him exclusively, that any deviation from his particular world view will result in torture seems to act as a catalyst for internal justification of one's beliefs.
But this is our choice (a pretty simple one, really) but a decision we make by our own free will. It's His world anyway, He made it and everything in it, under it, and above it. So in my humble opinion, He can have whatever view He wants. He's God. If we refuse His terms, we burn forever. But if we accept His terms, we receive incredibly wonderful benefits…… the LEAST of which is ….. we DON”T burn forever!

This primary fear of hell installs itself in the mind of every new believer, and once this premise is fully accepted the believer is instantly trapped with guilt. From here the believer must stay dependant on the conditions Jesus the Christ has specified, otherwise they risk total damnation.
Yes, we should feel the guilt, that shame of knowing we did a bad thing, and that we are truly guilty of that act. Feeling guilt is a good thing! It shows we’ve been convicted by the Holy Spirit. It’s what we DO with that guilt that matters. And that’s where our free will comes into play, yet again……. We each have 2 choices:

Do we repent?.......(saying to our Creator and King that we’re sorry we screwed up and we promise to never do it again? And REALLY mean it?) If so, than normally our feeling of guilt washes away, as Messiah graciously forgives us. (But that doesn’t mean we’ll forget what we’ve done. Oh sure, we ALL got stuff that was WAY BAD that we regret every day of our life - But that regret actually gives ME strength and courage to continue NOT doing what I used to do, and to boldly stand up for the Righteousness of my King by warning others who do now what I used to do.)

Or do we rebel? Have we been convicted of something we LIKE doing? And we really DON’T want to change? Even if the Creator of the whole Universe told us NOT to? That’s why some feel “trapped.” They don’t like the conditions of the contract and want to do things their own way and not the Lord’s way. Deeeeeep, deep down they know they’re wrong and so all they can focus on is the fear of Hell. And then some might get angry. So if we’re occupied with the fear of Hell, we cannot fear the Lord. We're only able to fear one thing at a time. So if Hell is what’s on our mind, than Hell is our master. But if we focus on the Lord and start trying to please Him by learning His rules and start to do them, then God is our Master. (Not because we HAVE to, but because we WANT to. It's a heart- thing. The circumcision of our heart is the desire to obey. Our willingness to drop our ways and follow HIS ways.... "because I am so GRATEFUL that He's willing to forgive me, and He was whipped to the bone, beaten to a pulp and agonized on a cross for me because He loves me so much. I've never known a love like that before and I want IN! So, YES Lord, I will obey!")

We can only serve 1 master at a time. But again, it’s a choice.

We can say that the believer has to fully accept and surrender themselves to Jesus the Christ in order that they may avoid this ghastly place. No evidence is required to debunk this primary belief because the mind has already accepted the idea of hell, and the believer will reject all evidence that might threaten their safe passage out of burning for all eternity.
It shouldn't be about AVOIDING torture, but being FORGIVEN and getting ADOPTED into the family of God. Again, if all we can focus on is the fear of Hell, than Hell is our master. If we don't learn to fear God, then Hell is our choice. That’s the decision each of us must make. It is so VERY sad that there are many who choose to reject God's great gift of redemption. But as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink."
 

WIP

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If you believe you're lost you will be lost. I don't believe I'm lost, so I am not lost. I once believed I was lost, but many years later I realised it was just a belief and not a fact.
MayDay, I hope you're still checking in from time to time. To your point above....

I am a deer hunter. I have always felt very comfortable in the northern Minnesota forest. I was a logger for about 10 years and so I pretty much lived in the woods. I never had trouble knowing directions. I don't know why, but it seemed I had an extra sense of direction and could always tell which direction was which without the use of a compass.

One day, while deer hunting, it began to snow very heavy and visibility was limited. Bear in mind that in the forest I hunt, one cannot see more than about 30 to 40 yards at any given time so to say visibility was limited gives you an idea of how heavy the snow was falling.

I was in an area I was very familiar with and just making my way around "still hunting" as I often do. I don't know if you're a hunter so I'll explain. Deer are very good at concealing themselves and using camouflage to their advantage. Still hunting is a tactic used where the hunter walks very slowly, making as little movement or sound as possible because deer can pick up the slightest movement and detect the slightest sounds. The hunter stops often (about every couple steps) to scan the area for any sign of deer, which could be anything from a leg to an antler, to a horizontal back line, to an eyeball, etc.

Well, I was moving through the woods with the heavy snow falling and I was confident I knew exactly where I was and which direction I had to go to complete the route I had in mind until I came upon another deer hunter's tracks. I thought I was alone in the area so it caught be a little by surprise to find those tracks. In the area we hunt it is rare for to encounter another hunter.

After more careful observation I realized the prints matched my own boot print and suddenly I had this unnerving feeling that I did not know where I was or where I was going. I got turned around and now I had no idea where I was and which way I needed to go. I looked at my compass and although I believed I was facing east, the compass indicated just the opposite. I then began to doubt the compass was accurate.

I did not believe I was lost but I there I was nonetheless. Fortunately, my training taught me when in doubt trust the compass over my own instincts and I hadn't panicked enough to not follow that training, despite the urge to toss the compass.

Sometimes, what we believe and what is true are two different things.
 

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