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How Did Lucifer Fall?

Edward

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I have been thinking about this question (How did Lucifer fall?) off and on for quite a little while now, and I think it's time to ask it in the forum.

Now, our God is the God of creation. He does not make mistakes or do anything wrong, right? That's a given. So...Lucifer was created in perfection. AFAIK, he was very top dog among the Angels, above them all I think. At the very least, he was like...the vice President so to speak. So with so much glory, blessing and responsibility upon him...how could there be iniquity within him? How could such a being who was created in perfection...fall.

I have no idea. Well, I do have an idea, but do not know if it is correct or not. (What do you think?) I think that Lucifer must have, thought upon the wrong things, and even dwelt upon them, meditated upon them...and we know that when we do that, it goes into our heart and becomes a part of who we are. (<That's scriptural). And then after that, how it went into his heart and became a part of him...the inevitable happened...out of the abundance of his heart, he spoke about it, and that is where he got himself into trouble. This is the only possibility that I can come up with. Shoot holes in it. Tell me where and why I am right or wrong. I am in no way being dogmatic about this, just curious.

We do know that, if we even look upon another in lust then we are guilty of adultery. In another place in scripture, it tells us what we should be thinking about...whatever is true, honest, just, pure, lovely or of good report and virtue...(Philippians 4:6-9), to think on these things. Scripture says that the power of life and death are in the tongue...so in this light, what I say makes sense to me.

So out of the abundance of our heart, our mouth will speak words. I believe that we frame up our own future according to what we think about. We shall be judged by our very thoughts. No wonder scripture says that we should meditate on the Word of God day and night and to never cease praying!

In the spiritual (Kingdom) realm, these things are probably magnified. So Lucifer probably thought about the wrong things, and did not take those thoughts captive and cast them down, but rather dwelled on them and then, whoosh! it went into his heart...and was all downhill from there because it became the greater abundance in his heart and then one day he spoke about it...to the other Angels, and some of them listened. This indicates that there is free will even in heaven, even amongst the Angels. God does not want a bunch of robots worshiping Him...He wants beings, of their own free will to choose to worship Him and to give Him the glory, to give Him their entire heart soul and being. And so, this is how it was possible for Lucifer who was created in perfection, to eventually turn against Almighty God and to become at enmity against God.

I don't recall the scriptures giving much insight upon this, so it is conjecture, yet does fit in with what scripture does say about how we are to take control of our thoughts and to not think on the wrong things, because of where that will lead us to.

What do you think? Comments? Corrections? Questions?
 

HeIsRisen2018

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First of all one cannot commit adultery if they aren't married (maybe engaged counts though and the other person is married I'm not sure) but that doesn't mean lust isn't a sin because it is. Second of all forgive me for answering your question with a question. Why did Adam and Eve fall? Simple. God gave them both free will so that means He must have done the same with the angels that He created. Basically the same thing that you just said.
 

for_his_glory

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Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

This is what happened to Lucifer as we call him Satan who is called by many names such as Satan, Devil, Beelzebub, Belial, Adversary, Dragon, Serpent and I’m sure a few others. The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill as he was an anointed cherub created by God. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.

Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus – another dual referent to Satan)

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
 

Not_Now.Soon

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It's not just Lucifer either. In Genesis isn't there a part where angels looked at women with lust made them their wives and bore giants as a result?

I don't know about why or how Lucifer fell, but I've been pondering a simular theory on why we have so much rampant sin in the world. And my best theory isn't biblical, or theological, meaning it's likely wrong and should be taken lightly at best. But what if our sins and our world is a testimony and a witness itself to the heavenly authorities. This is the world you get when you reject and rebel against God. Maybe in that way, God is allowing all the harms and horror in our world that baffel me so much so that a greater rebellion in heaven never happens, or doesn't happen again.

It's my best guess and in the end that's all it is, is a guess.

My hope is that when God remakes the world and removes sin, this time perfection will stick in all creation, from the Angels, to us, to any other creature above and below. We won't even think of the things or consider the things that are commonly struggled with in our lives and in sinful aspects of the world. That's my hope anyways.

Good topic. :)
 

for_his_glory

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It's not just Lucifer either. In Genesis isn't there a part where angels looked at women with lust made them their wives and bore giants as a result?

I don't know about why or how Lucifer fell, but I've been pondering a simular theory on why we have so much rampant sin in the world. And my best theory isn't biblical, or theological, meaning it's likely wrong and should be taken lightly at best. But what if our sins and our world is a testimony and a witness itself to the heavenly authorities. This is the world you get when you reject and rebel against God. Maybe in that way, God is allowing all the harms and horror in our world that baffel me so much so that a greater rebellion in heaven never happens, or doesn't happen again.

It's my best guess and in the end that's all it is, is a guess.

My hope is that when God remakes the world and removes sin, this time perfection will stick in all creation, from the Angels, to us, to any other creature above and below. We won't even think of the things or consider the things that are commonly struggled with in our lives and in sinful aspects of the world. That's my hope anyways.

Good topic. :)
First off Genesis 6 is heavily debated with to much theory as I am sure you have seen within the forums on this topic so we will not go there as it's off topic.

Ezekiel 28:13-28 and Isaiah 14:12-15 explains clearly how Lucifer fell as he became prideful and wanted all that was God's for himself.

We also know by reading scripture that Lucifer is the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Ephesians 2:2. This began with Adam and Eve disobeying God's command to not eat of the tree of knowledge. It was Lucifer/ Satan that enticed Eve to eat and give to her husband Adam thus creating the first act of sin, which is disobedience to God's commands.

Satan was cast down to the earth and became the ruler of iniquity over it before the creation of man which is why he had the power and right to give the kingdoms of the world over to Christ, Matthew 4:8, 9; Luke 4:5-7; 1Peter 5:8, 9. Satan corrupted the nations until there was no righteous person found except Noah. Even after Satan was cast down to the ground he still vowed that he would ascend back into heaven and take his place on the throne and be like the most high.

Since Satan is known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air he has access to the throne of God to accuse the saints of God as Jesus makes intercession for them. Satan has no authority in heaven as he lost that privilege, but was cut down to earth and through his hatred and anger of God now uses his deceit to separate man from God by stealing the word of God from them thus stealing their faith in God.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the ruler of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Satan moves to and fro on the earth and has access to the throne of God to accuse the brethren. God made man in his image and breathed life into him. Man was created innocent, but also given free will, until Satan deceived Eve into eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil which she also gave to her husband Adam to eat of. Satan is very cunning and should be respected in the sense that he can do whatever it takes to separate us from God as his spiritual wickedness is increased through out the nations.

Satan and all that opposes God will be cast into the lake of fire in the end as there will never be evil on the new earth or in the New Jerusalem ever again.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Hey for_his_glory what about the adultery thing? Can an unmarried person actually commit it? Yes or no?
 

for_his_glory

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Hey for_his_glory what about the adultery thing? Can an unmarried person actually commit it? Yes or no?
I will answer your question, but let us not make this about adultery as I believe Edward was only using that as an example of the flesh.

We associate adultery with the act of sexual intercourse, but it also means unfaithfulness, infidelity, falseness, disloyalty as being disobedience to all of God's commands. Adultery is a sin of disobedience in the same as breaking any of the commandments. There are no big sins or little sins as I believe sin is sin and will be judged by God.
 
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HeIsRisen2018

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Let's take that to a new thread as it has nothing to do with the OP. You can start one if you like.



Umm,.. okay but I only brought it up because it was mentioned briefly in the OP. The subject matter I mean.
 

Edward

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Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

This is what happened to Lucifer as we call him Satan who is called by many names such as Satan, Devil, Beelzebub, Belial, Adversary, Dragon, Serpent and I’m sure a few others. The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill as he was an anointed cherub created by God. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.

Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus – another dual referent to Satan)

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
yep, that's him. he thought wrong, it changed him, he became haughty, then he started lying. An anointed Cherub. If an anointed cherub can fall and turn mean, then...how lucky we are that Our Lord is pure love?

A Cherub is still an Angel though, right? Doesn't scripture say that man was created in God's own image and above the Angels? One day we will even judge Angels? Which ones? The fallen Angels, or the good Angels? It doesn't really say. We have right now all authority over fallen Angels and evil spirits. In Christ and Christ in us. In Jesus's mighty name, none of them could stand against a Spirit filled Christian.

We have a lot to look forward to!
 

Edward

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My hope is that when God remakes the world and removes sin, this time perfection will stick in all creation, from the Angels, to us, to any other creature above and below. We won't even think of the things or consider the things that are commonly struggled with in our lives and in sinful aspects of the world. That's my hope anyways.
That's my understanding of how it will be. The sin influence will be gone. Mankind is under such heavy demonic oppression all the time now, and I think most people don't realize it is real and the extent of it now.

But if God is for us, who could stand against us?! But it sure will be nice being free of the sin influence eventually!
 

HeIsRisen2018

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yep, that's him. he thought wrong, it changed him, he became haughty, then he started lying. An anointed Cherub. If an anointed cherub can fall and turn mean, then...how lucky we are that Our Lord is pure love?

A Cherub is still an Angel though, right? Doesn't scripture say that man was created in God's own image and above the Angels? One day we will even judge Angels? Which ones? The fallen Angels, or the good Angels? It doesn't really say. We have right now all authority over fallen Angels and evil spirits. In Christ and Christ in us. In Jesus's mighty name, none of them could stand against a Spirit filled Christian.

We have a lot to look forward to!


Where does scripture say that we will judge the angels?
 

Edward

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Where does scripture say that we will judge the angels?
It's in 1 Corinthians 6

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?.../(KJV)
 

HeIsRisen2018

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It's in 1 Corinthians 6

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?.../(KJV)




Okay thank you so in layman's terms what does that mean exactly? :confused
 

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