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[_ Old Earth _] How do macroevolutionists refute irreducible complexity?

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Ok, so I'm at the bookstore tonight and I pick up the book "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist." I randomly open it to the chapter that deals with irreducible complexity. I'm familiar with irreducible complexity so it was not terribly enlightening but it did occur to me that I've never actually asked a proponent of macroevolution how they refute what appears to be the clear cut reality that certain systems, organisms, etc, could not have evolved in a piecemeal fashion through unguided, unintelligent, naturalistic processes. "Natural Selection" would've had no reason to selectively develop these systems, organisms, etc, without an end product in mind since they would be of no benefit to the organism whatsoever without all the necessary parts in place to make the system or function work. Even Darwin, in whose day I understand the contents of a single cell could not even be analyzed, said that if organisms were found that could not have evolved through very slight, successive modifications over extremely long periods of time his theory would fall apart. In light of irreducible complexity, it seems that Darwin, were he alive today, would have scrapped macroevolution himself a long time ago. So, what say you macroevolutionists? I'm not a molecular biologist by any stretch of the imagination. What am I missing here? And please, no refutations of the bombadier beetle...we get it. It's a really stale an argument at this point, as is the assertion that there's no difference between micro and macroevolution; which is so manifestly untrue it's not even funny!! Thanks!! :)
 

jasoncran

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ok, o great intellectual one.

how is it possible for there to be micro and not macro and you not believe in irreducible complexity????


and also acccount for the various sub species of men that we know to be , that even creationist accept as sub-species.

h.ergaster, h.erectus.h.neathendarthalis and h.sapiens archaic,h.sapiens sapiens.
 
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how is it possible for there to be micro and not macro and you not believe in irreducible complexity????

.
Ok so what are you asking? I believe there is a difference between micro and macro evolution and that irreducible complexity pretty much blows macroevolution out of the water unless there is something very major that I'm missing, which is entirely possible being that I'm by no means an expert on this subject.
 

jasoncran

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:)

you werent clear.

so you dont believe in macro because of lack of evidence ie transitional fossils???

why do you believe in micro then?

i know that you dont but why?
 
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:)

you werent clear.

so you dont believe in macro because of lack of evidence ie transitional fossils???

why do you believe in micro then?

i know that you dont but why?
Microevolution pretty much entails modifications that occur within a species. There are a gazillion different types of dogs but they're all still DOGS!!! Macroevolution entails modifications that cause species to evolve into entirely different species...radically different concepts. The reasons I don't believe in macroevolution are many and varied but I have to be up early and if my OP wasn't clear than I definitely need to sleep on it before I give a coherent response!!!
 

jasoncran

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ok then that is what i thought, and remember those chicken ninjas that evolved somehow that love pot.
 
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ok then that is what i thought, and remember those chicken ninjas that evolved somehow that love pot.
you just couldn't resist that one now could you ya frickin booger!!! lmbo!!!! clearly the chickens had to defend themselves SOMEHOW and besides that they look MUCH more stylish in NINJA COSTUMES!!! and haven't you ever seen how nervous those poor things are?? tell me you wouldn't roll a few if YOU were a chicken!!! roflmbo!!!
 

jasoncran

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you just couldn't resist that one now could you ya frickin booger!!! lmbo!!!! clearly the chickens had to defend themselves SOMEHOW and besides that they look MUCH more stylish in NINJA COSTUMES!!! and haven't you ever seen how nervous those poor things are?? tell me you wouldn't roll a few if YOU were a chicken!!! roflmbo!!!
been laughing for hours over that. trust me i still am, and i know that you got that last message.it explains my humor perfectly.

anywhay.

lets see here.

pick a species and show us why it cant have evolved.
 
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been laughing for hours over that. trust me i still am, and i know that you got that last message.it explains my humor perfectly.

anywhay.

lets see here.

pick a species and show us why it cant have evolved.
Yes i got the last message and yes you're deranged sense of humor is clearly explainable by non-randomly generated "intelligent" ahem, cough cough, processes!!! Tee hee hee hee hee!!! With regard to picking a species, if I didn't have to be up at 7AM I'd jump right on that most benevolent donkey commander!!!
 

jasoncran

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ok then and to the audience that read this we know each other off the forum, and communicate there as well.

please do for the curious, faith.

donkey elvolution, shaffa the donkey would like to do where his daddy came from.

lets start with ungulates then( ah yes a whale and dolphin redo)
 
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ok then and to the audience that read this we know each other off the forum, and communicate there as well.

please do for the curious, faith.

donkey elvolution, shaffa the donkey would like to do where his daddy came from.

lets start with ungulates then( ah yes a whale and dolphin redo)
lmbo sorry to tell you but shaffa was adopted!!!! poor little bugger doesn't even know who his daddy IS much less where he came from!!! wait!! lets create him a facebook page so he can find his birth father!!! or lemme guess...you witnessed his conception and birthed him with your bare hands!!! guess you could say you're a real "hands on" kinda guy!! tee hee hee hee hee hee hee!!! nanny nanny boo boo!!! :tongue
 

jasoncran

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lol. seriously pick the equines and lets learn. and the donkey has a gestation period of twelve months.

gus was a cute foal wasnt he?
 

Evointrinsic

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(just in case it for some reason didn't show up)


Let's start off with a few points that you don't seem to comprehend at this point in time.

First off there is not such thing as a "macroevolutionist" you either accept evolution, or you don't. You can't accept part of it without accepting all of it. and If you say you do (lets take microevolution for example), then you really don't understand all of what evolution actually is yet.

I'm sorry to be a broken record. but Yes, Micro evolution has the exact same processes as Macro evolution. Macro evolution is made up of micro evolution. There for if you believe in micro evolution, it shouldn't be difficult for you to understand how macro evolution can arise because it's the exact same process, just taken a step back.

Think of it this way.

One moment we have one second, the next moment we have two seconds, the third we have three seconds and so on and so forth. That's what we consider micro evolution if we relate that to small changes in dna or within a species. Then these seconds accumulate and we have a minute! In other words, we have so many small changes in a species that it's more modern form can no longer breed with it's ancestor. And then we have even more seconds which make even more changes and it eventually leads up to a whole hour! the species looks somewhat similar to it's ancestor but cannot breed with it and is getting more and more distant from it. Eventually we have more seconds to add and we have 24 hours, an entire day! Now all of a sudden we have this creature that looks nothing like it's ancestor although it's in the same family still. Next we have a week. and we have ourselves looking at an entire biological order because the relation between the most modern organism and it's ancestor is so great. we take it to a month and we have to look at it as a class, and then a phylum and then finally the entire kingdom because it's so distantly related.

That's the very simplistic version of it, but that's what it is. You cannot believe in macro evolution without also believing in micro evolution and the opposite unless you are trying very hard to reject it to the point that you start lying to yourself.

As for Irreducible Complexity, we've already debunked all the claims from this pseudoscientific argument. Years ago in fact.

Would you be able to give an example of what defies evolution in this way, please?
 
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Is it me, or are my posts not showing up in this thread?
apparently your not eeeevo enough...you're semi evo, you're quasi evo, you're the diet coke of evo...just one calorie...not quite enough!!! tee hee hee hee hee!!! sorry...austin powers references about in my world lol.
 

jasoncran

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Is it me, or are my posts not showing up in this thread?
i can see them, odd you posted the same thing twice, i deleted one as it was a double post.

maybe faith doesnt see them. hmm pm vic or nick on this as i dont know why.
 

Evointrinsic

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That's weird, I can see the newest one though :) I only see one of my posts on here (other than the "are my posts not showing up" one)
 
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lol. seriously pick the equines and lets learn. and the donkey has a gestation period of twelve months.

gus was a cute foal wasnt he?
i didn't know gus as a foal but he's absolutely ADORABLE now!!! i'll take a pic and make him my avatar tomorrow lol. but no...i just cant get into it tonight!!! i had FOUR HOURS SLEEP LAST NIGHT!!! Count em boog...FOUR!!! Gotta get up and work my ever-luvin tail off tomorow and I'm not gonna get into one of our neverending chat-a-thons tonight!! You know I wish I could though!!!
 

jasoncran

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i have forwarded this to the admin and i see your posts, i am not sure why.

hmm is it in this thread only and when are you taking that nature trek?

btw i forgot you like snakes my wife killed one the other day and i though of you siggy.

the snake didnt stand a chance, though it wasnt posinous(orange round shapes along the body dont make it posinous and he didnt have pits of a viper)

florida has two pit viper snakes the coral snake and water moccasin, opps three the diamondback

the other posinious one is the puff adder and the one in question was to big for that one.
 

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