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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Is It Possible to be Free of Sin?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
Each of us is different.
The first century Jewish mindset, having been tutored by the law, had a huge head start on the Gentile, who for the most part lived a lawless lifestyle, being passed on from generation to generation.
So it is today, did we grow up in a Christian home?
Were we instructed in the scriptures from youth?
I guess with your question we can introduce into the discussion, the principle of “to whom much is given, much more is expected”.
And with that, we can also discuss, which carries them same principle, what level of spiritual maturity are we at.
Does God expect as much from a baby Christian, as He does from a spiritual adult?
I know from reading the Gospel of John, we see the perspective written from more of the young disciple, maybe even a teenager, who loved and followed Christ.
In his epistles, we see the doctrine, wisdom and passion of a mature elder in Christ.
We discern and apprehend, and thereby practice the truth from who we have become in Christ.
So to that degree, Christ expects us to practice righteousness.
Another thing to understand is, are we struggling with a sin, in the sense we hate it and are trying to overcome and get free, or have we cast off all restraint and are living in open sin, with no remorse or repentance?
I say we begin to discuss your question from within the framework of these things, and see where the Spirit leads the discussion.
What do you think?
JLB
Not_Now.Soon
Member
Thanks for starting this topic wondering.
There might be a theological answer to get out of sin, such as turning to God, and then all things become clear and easier to follow. And there are theological perspectives that stem off that idea or near that idea. One that I've heard is that Jesus wouldn't have taught to be perfect as God is perfect if it was impossible to do so.
The nitty gritty of it though is that sins are not comfortable thoughts to confront in larger groups. So the big issues of not being able to get out of sin is robed by not finding how someone else did it. As well as robed because of not wanting to face the shame and embarrassment that will likely come from admitting a sin to our brothers and sisters in Christ. What I really like is the idea of AA groups. Hopefully they work more often then not, but the idea that those who have battled a sin and conquored it can help those still struggling in it before it gets worse.
Going along the lines, that if you have an addiction, someone else who has had that same addiction (or a simular one) can help you break out of it, or help you find the tools to do so. Even if that means just having better habits to come to God with more often, or more deticatedly, or with direction to give up any enviornment that has that addiction in it. Run from it kind of thing even if it means losing out of going to certian events or seeing certian people.
The same thing for if you have an issue with anger, or lust; being unforgiving, or to let go of our greed. Or any other sin that keeps us from following God's direction. How others have turned from it and what can make it easier.
There might be a theological answer to get out of sin, such as turning to God, and then all things become clear and easier to follow. And there are theological perspectives that stem off that idea or near that idea. One that I've heard is that Jesus wouldn't have taught to be perfect as God is perfect if it was impossible to do so.
The nitty gritty of it though is that sins are not comfortable thoughts to confront in larger groups. So the big issues of not being able to get out of sin is robed by not finding how someone else did it. As well as robed because of not wanting to face the shame and embarrassment that will likely come from admitting a sin to our brothers and sisters in Christ. What I really like is the idea of AA groups. Hopefully they work more often then not, but the idea that those who have battled a sin and conquored it can help those still struggling in it before it gets worse.
Going along the lines, that if you have an addiction, someone else who has had that same addiction (or a simular one) can help you break out of it, or help you find the tools to do so. Even if that means just having better habits to come to God with more often, or more deticatedly, or with direction to give up any enviornment that has that addiction in it. Run from it kind of thing even if it means losing out of going to certian events or seeing certian people.
The same thing for if you have an issue with anger, or lust; being unforgiving, or to let go of our greed. Or any other sin that keeps us from following God's direction. How others have turned from it and what can make it easier.
We say "no one is perfect" not to give an excuse to continue sinning, but to recognize that we are not sinlessly perfect as Christ was. 1 Jn. 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Notice that the holy apostle included himself.
In the context of 1 Jn. (and other texts), we discover that some sins are worse than others, for (perhaps extreme) example hating or murder is worse than eating food of idols or not attending church. Even that might be controversial. Certainly speaking against the Holy Spirit would be worse than declaring a curse. 1 Jn. 5:16 "there is sin not leading to death..."
The point is that we try to avoid the worse sins with more effort and with more faith in God to keep us safe from the evil one. I'm just speaking in a practical manner of how we go about living the Christian life. 1 Jn. 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." This verse has the idea of the direction of life, since it is not talking about being sinlessly perfect.
Therefore, we are all a work in progress, since we all need to mature in faith and continue to be sanctified throughout our life. There is always room for improvement, and can only be done as our trust in God grows. We have been saved from the penalty of sin, are being saved from the power of sin, and will be saved from the presence of sin.
TD
I think you have a good idea,,,,
These would be some interesting questions,,,as you posed them:
1. Does God have different requirements from different persons? What would they depend on?
2. Is there a maturing process for a Christian or/and are some concepts understood right away?
3. Do we become wiser as we dwell with Jesus?
4. Is there a difference between struggling with a sin, in the sense we hate it and are trying to overcome and get free of it, or have we cast off all restraint and are living in open sin, with no remorse or repentance? Is there a consequence?
I guess anyone could pick just one or all of them...
They go to the heart of the matter.
Thanks!
I'd like to hear from others.
I believe we're all different and the same tactic will not work on everyone.
If something worked for me for a particular sin...it may not work for someone else.
We also have the fact that what may be sin to one may not be a sin to another.
It may be easier to leave some sins more than others.
Maybe it has to do with our psychological make-up?
Maybe some are more ingrained?
The sin does not have to be specified....
they all work under the same principle.
Satan knows are weak points...he works on those.
So is the Holy Spirit weak?
No.
First of all, we are at the very least, aware of what we're doing wrong.
Second of all, He does help us in, at least, in lessening the sin or diminishing the quantity of the sin.
I say we can only do our best....but not as to excuse our sins, but so as not to discourage ourselves to the point of giving up.
We say "no one is perfect" not to give an excuse to continue sinning, but to recognize that we are not sinlessly perfect as Christ was. 1 Jn. 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Notice that the holy apostle included himself.
In the context of 1 Jn. (and other texts), we discover that some sins are worse than others, for (perhaps extreme) example hating or murder is worse than eating food of idols or not attending church. Even that might be controversial. Certainly speaking against the Holy Spirit would be worse than declaring a curse. 1 Jn. 5:16 "there is sin not leading to death..."
The point is that we try to avoid the worse sins with more effort and with more faith in God to keep us safe from the evil one. I'm just speaking in a practical manner of how we go about living the Christian life. 1 Jn. 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." This verse has the idea of the direction of life, since it is not talking about being sinlessly perfect.
Therefore, we are all a work in progress, since we all need to mature in faith and continue to be sanctified throughout our life. There is always room for improvement, and can only be done as our trust in God grows. We have been saved from the penalty of sin, are being saved from the power of sin, and will be saved from the presence of sin.
TD
Agreed on all.
What do you think Jesus meant by being perfect?
Mathew 5:48
I agree very much with you that there are degrees of sin.
I attended a church for about 10 years that taught that all sin is the same. I cannot agree with this and I have verses if we want to get into it but not tonight -- very late here.
John said there is sin for which we need not pray.
Jesus said there are more stripes for some sin, which means the punishment would be more?
Does that effort with which we fight the more serious sins become less and less as we mature in Christ?
Your last paragraph is spot on.
(my generation used to say "right on"...LOL)
ezra
Member
complete in him
perfect,
τέλειοι (teleioi)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 5046: From telos; complete; neuter completeness.
Colossians 1:28
Since He was talking about agape' love for everyone, He meant to love unconditionally.
Agreed on all.
What do you think Jesus meant by being perfect?
Mathew 5:48
yes.
yes, because both our faith and resolve get stronger.
Tks, and God bless.
TD
I think the answer is changing because it depends on how one defines sin.
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Jesus said He can set us free.
John wrote this
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Those that do sin
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
We are not free to sin
You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'
And
It seemed good to the "Holy Spirit" and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Obviously its a debatable question. But I think if we add the commandments of Jesus and what Peter wrote with the component of loving one another we can keep in the Lords love. The Spirit in us helps us in our weaknesses and prays for us in accordance to the will of God.
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
Jesus stated it was His Fathers will that He lose none of those "given" to Him but raise them up on the last day.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one
So by Gods grace and aid we can remain in the Lords love. And in Christ is no sin.
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Can anyone really be free of sin? And if so how?
So to sum up with Gods grace and help found in Christ Jesus through whom we live- Yes. Anyone on their own apart from Jesus -No
Great post.
We are not free to sin.
The Holy Spirit was sent to us to help us in our journey here on earth.
If we remain IN Christ, we will receive His help and His strength. IN CHRIST is repeated many times in the N.T.
Your post reminded me of
John 15:1-6
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
Senior
Member
Paul explains several times that ...
BACs have been set FREE from being slaves of sin.
BACs NO longer HAVE TO sin ... they NO longer MUST sin.
But, BACs are FREE to sin, if they choose to sin (Romans 6).
1 John means that BACs who are "faithful" in God's eyes
(i.e. they are practicing righteousness, obedience, etc.)
are those who are NOT habitual unrepentant sinners!
Last edited:
Senior
Member
So why did you say ... "We are not free to sin"?
This was a few days ago and without looking back at posts,,,I can safely say that what I meant is that we cannot sin all we want to and then state that we are BACs.
We are not free to live a life of sin.
(if we are BACs).
I DO hear this and it disturbs me...
BAC want to follow their Lord and Savior...
this means acting as Jesus acted (to the best of our ability).
Senior
Member
Thou must mean ... and expect to get to heaven.
Thou art correct.
One can sinneth all he desireth...
But canst not then expect our Good Lord to inviteth him inside the Pearly Gates.
DiscipleDave
Member
The desire to sin, is not what is sinful. The mere fact that person is TEMPTED to commit sin, is a sign of desiring to sin. It is the acting upon it that is sinful. When satan tempts us to sin, that is not sinful, when we do what he tempts us to do, then that becomes sin.
What does Scriptures teach?
Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
1Co_15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Joh_8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
And there are TONS more verses which all teach the exact same thing. So Yes Scriptures plainly teaches it is possible. Maybe now you are starting to understand why it is a narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting and only a very few will find it. If you want to learn more Truths concerning this topic, then it should behoove you to read the following two articles with a lot of Scriptural references:
Sin No More
Keep On Sinning?
i do all things to please Jesus Christ. i could not do it without Him. The #1 thing to fight against all temptations is knowledge of the Word of God. (The reason i have read it cover to cover over 50 times, and listen to it for 8 hours a day at work) If you don't know what it says, how can you use it against satan? Knowing that it is written that Jesus never allows any temptation to be so strong that you can't handle it, and with every temptation Jesus allows a path out of it, is a good starter. So when you are being tempted look for that path out of it.
Praying is a huge benefit when one is tempted to commit a sin. Seeking the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ in a time of weakness when you are being tempted to do something that you know is sinful, He is faithful and will help you. But how many in this generation when they are tempted, want to NOT do that which they are tempted? They would rather just commit the sin, repent afterwards, and think all is well with their souls, time after time after time after time after time after time. ... .. .. .. .. . right? There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. NOT that anyone specifically on this forum are such. (generalizing here)
Also another thing i do is not to quit all sins all at once, if you try to do this, you will be setting yourself up to fail. A person who tries to give up smoking, drinking, cussing, lusting(porn) all at the same time is bound to fail miserably. Take one sin, and get it out of your life. When it is gone, then work on another, then another. God is faithful and will not take you out of this world as long as you are trying to walk in the light as Jesus did. i am where i am today because i gave up smoking (very hard), cursing, porn (hard), anger, drinking, money, sex (celibate now over 10 years), filthy communication, TV, Cable, Satellite, friends, family, my dream of having a wife and kids and white picked fence, my life, and other things. [not in any particular order]. Gave them all up to serve Jesus Christ. Gave them all up one by one, till i am where i am today. If i can do it, i assure you, that you can do it as well.
But you most certainly have to be willing to give up your LIFE. He gave His for you, should you not be willing to give yours for HIM? i surround myself with thoughts of Him. Christian shirts is what i wear. Christian bumper stickers on my car. cross hanging on mirror in car. Pictures of Jesus and Angels other Religious stuff hanging every where in my house. Screen background is of Jesus on my computer. Mouse pad is of Jesus. Yes people call me a Jesus freak, and i LOVE IT. When Peter walked on water, he was able to do that which is impossible to do as long as his mind and thoughts were on Jesus Christ, but the moment he looked away from Jesus and thought about the storm, he sank like a stone. My mind and thoughts are on Jesus Christ from the moment i wake up in the morning till i go to bed at night. Yes very narrow and difficult road that i am on. have no friends, and have lost family as well. i do all things to please Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. i belong to Him, i am His servant, i do not obey His enemy the devil, EVER! Why would i obey the enemy of my Lord Jesus Christ?
What, i am supernatural? NOPE. i am just like you, a mere human being. But how can i walk like Jesus walked, because i have given up my life to be a slave to Him is how. i know what is at stake here, Heaven or Hell. i do all things to please Him.
What sin do you do that you can't possibly cease from? Really, none. The question then is, why are you not ceasing from them?
It is never easy to give up any particular sin that we continue to live in. no matter what that sin may be. But give it up you MUST. For Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches that we are to get rid of the sin that so easily besets us. And it is impossible to get rid of that sin that so easily besets us without the help of Jesus/Holy Ghost.
There are many more things a person can do to overcome sinning. Scriptures teaches us how. Read the two articles above that will be a start.
OH and above all else, while you are trying to walk in Christ, be Loving One Another. Failing to Love One Another is to deny Jesus Christ, for it is written if you do it not to the least of these you do it not to Jesus. When you fail to Love Others, you fail to Love Jesus.
I have a few questions for you DD, based on your teaching (http://discipledave.com/Keeponsinning.html).
- Are you sinlessly perfect right now?
- Do you still commit sin not unto death, according to 1 Jn. 5:16?
- How long ago did you last commit a sin in which your heart condemned you according to 1 Jn. 3:19-20?
- Could you possibly be committing any sin occasionally that you don't know about (sins of omission, perhaps)?
Not_Now.Soon
Member
Hi DiscipleDave,
You've given a long list of what you've given up in order to serve God. It is this list that I think could be of use for myself and fellow Christians who are trying to get rid of their sins, or are trying to deal with the loss of certian things (like no friends and loss of family).
It is a hope of mine that as Christians we can help eachother through our struggles, or be able to reach nonbelievers by rescuing them from their sins. (Not that we'd be doing the rescuing, but if we know the struggle we can help with the knowledge of how we made it through that struggle assoicated with a specific sin).
With that in mind would you mind going into more detail of how you gave up smoking, cursing, porn, anger, drinking, money, sex, and filthy communication.
Each of these sins comes at us in different ways and from different situtions, and the struggle to stay away from them when that sin is a weakness could be a real ministry to help Christians, and to help nonchristians too.
I think a prison ministry would expecially be of value if as a community we got together and compared notes on certian sins and the path to overcome each one.
Of the other parts of life you gave up for service, such as giving up on family and friends for companionship, or on a job or other good aspect people strive for, hope for, and are devastated if they lose it; a ministry to help those going through the same thing and for those who morn and have lost a lot comes to mind.
I know this is asking a lot, because it is your life I'm asking for you to share, and be open about. But you said you've successfully given these things up. Going into more detail on giving up any one of these things could help another who is struggling with the same thing.
....if you're willing...