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Man of Sin not in a physical temple

Anto9us2

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On another board, a guy started a thread about Paul's son of perdition figure in 2 Thessalonians 2 - sitting in God's Temple - and suggesting it need not be the actual Temple in Jerusalem.

Although the physical Temple was still standing when Paul wrote both Thessalonian letters, the guy made a good case that elsewhere in the NT, Paul writes of a spiritual Temple of God.

I was intrigued by the idea, and thought I would post about it here.
 

Anto9us2

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The significance of the idea, to me, is that this interpretation takes away a necessity of a rebuilt Temple.

The notion is, that PAUL knew of Jesus' prediction of physical Temple going to be torn down with not one stone left on another, learned it from other disciples who heard it - and thus does not picture the Man of Sin/Son of Perdition in the physical Temple...

Interesting.

Perhaps some prophecy giant like JLB might have some thoughts on this, and some Greek guru like Oz could shed light on different words NAOS and HIERON used for sanctuary and temple. The thread on the other board stalled because of posters' egos before I could get into it.
 

Anto9us2

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A handful of times, Paul speaks that THE CHRISTIAN is the Temple of God, using NAOS. The references to physical Temple use HIERON, and once, a reference to an idol's temple uses EIDOLON.

Is there really going to be a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem?

I don't know. But this interpretation makes it NOT MATTER so much.
 

JLB

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On another board, a guy started a thread about Paul's son of perdition figure in 2 Thessalonians 2 - sitting in God's Temple - and suggesting it need not be the actual Temple in Jerusalem.

Although the physical Temple was still standing when Paul wrote both Thessalonian letters, the guy made a good case that elsewhere in the NT, Paul writes of a spiritual Temple of God.

I was intrigued by the idea, and thought I would post about it here.

What “temple” would the man of sin be revealed in?

He is a flesh and blood man.

How else would he be revealed, if not in a physical temple, claiming he is the Messiah?

Claiming he is God.




JLB
 

JLB

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A handful of times, Paul speaks that THE CHRISTIAN is the Temple of God, using NAOS. The references to physical Temple use HIERON, and once, a reference to an idol's temple uses EIDOLON.

Is there really going to be a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem?

I don't know. But this interpretation makes it NOT MATTER so much.

Well, let’s go ahead and take this theory to its logical conclusion.


If the “temple” that the man of sin sits in is Christians, then here is what that means:


The flesh and blood man of sin, has the ability to be omnipresent, which means he is able to occupy all the Christians on planet earth, at the same time.

The man of sin is able to make the Holy Spirit leave all these Christians he occupies, so he can work his false lying wonders that is according to Satan, through them.


The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-10


I just don’t think this will be the case.





JLB
 

Anto9us2

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You could be right.

But I have just never been comfortable with this idea that "Jesus can't come today or tomorrow because a Temple needs to be built", and face it, that's what it means if a physical Temple needs to be built.
The kingdom cometh not by observation - so, what are we looking for?

Pre-Tribbers have a pat ANSWER, but I Ieft pretrib for reasons I don't know that anybody else has...

No one knows day or the hour, but if a physical Temple needs to be built, that's saying right there it won't be today, won't be tomorrow, won't be next week because it takes time to build a Temple made with hands, which kind of temple God does not dwell in anyhow.
 
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Anto9us2

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This lawless one is to be destroyed by the spirit of the Lord's mouth, by the brightness of His coming - doesn't even sound like a flesh and blood man in that passage.
 

Anto9us2

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"Now you know WHAT WITHOLDETH"...

Well, Paul thought the Thessalonians knew who THE RESTRAINER was. We don't.

Doesn't take much to restrain or hold back a flesh and blood man, so I think something else is meant.
 

JLB

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But I have just never been comfortable with this idea that "Jesus can't come today or tomorrow because a Temple needs to be built",
ok. Let’s look at some things that the scriptures teach us.

You said the key to understanding all of it, because His coming is when three major things occur.


Here’s the first two -


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


The first two things that happen at His coming, in order:

  • that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

The Resurrection happens first
The Rapture happens just afterward.


For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

  1. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
  2. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
 

JLB

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This lawless one is to be destroyed by the spirit of the Lord's mouth, by the brightness of His coming - doesn't even sound like a flesh and blood man in that passage.
I like the way you draw from the scripture to gain understanding, rather than just going along with the most popular belief.


Yes, the third major thing that will occur at His coming, is He will destroy the antichrist and all the wicked.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


So the three major things we see occurring at His coming are:


  1. The Resurrection
  2. The Rapture
  3. The destruction of the antichrist


Can we agree on this?




JLB
 

Anto9us2

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I think I can agree on those three things, but I have caveats. First, there is the notion that many came out of their graves and appeared unto many after the Cross and resurrection, so "the resurrection" began a long time ago.

We are not told if those saints got glorified bodies, or just walked around for a bit and then went back in t h e grave or what.
Second is the term ANTICHRIST itself. John uses it like:
"You have heard that Antichrist shall come, and even now there are many antichrists"

?

Not exactly in Iine with popular view that there is a single THE ANTICHRIST that will come.

It almost seems like DATE-SETTING IN REVERSE to say " rapture cannot come for 7 years " or 3 1/2 years (42 months mentioned in Revelation)

See, I think 70 weeks ran CONCURRENTLY and is over. No justification for this notion that " Oh, the prophetic clock stopped after the 69th week, or in the middle of 70th week".

That is the biggest reason I dropped PRE-TRIB, I came to the realization that all TIMES declared by God for things like Jews In Egypt, Jews in Babylon - they ran CONCURRENTLY.

None of this GAP business
 

JLB

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First, there is the notion that many came out of their graves and appeared unto many after the Cross and resurrection, so "the resurrection" began a long time ago.
This is true, people did come out of their graves when Christ was resurrected.

He brought them into heaven, because until then, they had been in paradise; in the heart of the earth.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ, and Rapture is where all His people will receive their transformed bodies, that shine like the sun, and are sinless.


These being “raised” from the heart of the earth up to heaven is not the resurrection.


JLB
 

Anto9us2

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I agree with you there also.

Christ brought OT saints from Abraham's Bosom to heaven. This has been called THE HARROWING OF HELL.

Not the resurrection, no glorified bodies yet.

I got a flu shot 2 days ago, and feel very flaky now.
 
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JLB

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I agree with you there also.

Christ brought OT saints from Abraham's Bosom to heaven. This has been called THE HARROWING OF HELL.

Not the resurrection, no glorified bodies yet.

I got a flu shot 2 days ago, and feel very flaky now.
I hope you get to feeling better.
 

for_his_glory

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The cornerstone for the new Temple was brought to Jerusalem on May 21, 2009 and still remains on the street. "Jerusalem Day" in 1967 was to celebrate the liberation of the Temple Mount, but there is a problem there as the Doom of the Rock sits on the Temple Mount. Baruch Ben-Yosel , chairman of the Movement to Restore the Temple, made it clear that the Temple had to be built in the exact spot where the Dome of the Rock sits.

There will never be a third Temple built by hands, Acts 7:48; Acts 17:24. When the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom after Jesus gave up the ghost, Matthew 27:50, 51, this symbolized that the sacrifice of Jesus and the shedding of his blood was now made for the atonement of sin and that all, Jew and Gentile, can come before Him as He is the only way to the Father, John 14:6.

There is no more veil for the Priest to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement for Israel's sin nor is there any more animal sacrifices as we are no longer under the Old Covenant nor the preaching of the law, but are under a new and better covenant of Gods grace through Christ Jesus as our High Priest, Hebrews 4:14-16. Jesus prophesied of the Temple being desolate and that no one will see Him again until His time comes meaning when He returns on the last day, Matthew 24:1, 2; Luke 13:34, 35, John 6:40.

God no longer dwells in a Temple made by hands and this is why God left it desolate all these years when it was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. Now the Dome of the Rock sits on part of the Temple Mount and was built around 692 AD. The Muslims will never give it over to Israel, plus the Dome of the Rock is being refurbished for the son of perdition (not a Muslim man) to come and sit on his throne and will cause a great falling away from truth, Isaiah 14:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

Jesus fulfilled everything the temple stood for being the last sacrificial lamb taking away all the sin of the world. God no longer dwells in a temple made by hands, Acts 7:48-50; 17:22-31; Hebrews 10:7-18

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The church, (body of Christ) is the temple where God dwells by His Holy Spirit, Zechariah 6:9-15 (prophecy of coming Messiah); 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17; Ephesians 2:19-22, Galatians 3:19-29.

In 70AD the second temple was destroyed and put an end to the temple made by hands and the sacrifices made there. The Temple of God now dwells in all who are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10.
 

Randy

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I think I can agree on those three things, but I have caveats. First, there is the notion that many came out of their graves and appeared unto many after the Cross and resurrection, so "the resurrection" began a long time ago.

We are not told if those saints got glorified bodies, or just walked around for a bit and then went back in t h e grave or what.
Second is the term ANTICHRIST itself. John uses it like:
"You have heard that Antichrist shall come, and even now there are many antichrists"

?

Not exactly in Iine with popular view that there is a single THE ANTICHRIST that will come.

It almost seems like DATE-SETTING IN REVERSE to say " rapture cannot come for 7 years " or 3 1/2 years (42 months mentioned in Revelation)

See, I think 70 weeks ran CONCURRENTLY and is over. No justification for this notion that " Oh, the prophetic clock stopped after the 69th week, or in the middle of 70th week".

That is the biggest reason I dropped PRE-TRIB, I came to the realization that all TIMES declared by God for things like Jews In Egypt, Jews in Babylon - they ran CONCURRENTLY.

None of this GAP business
The resurrection that Jesus spoke of are those clothed with immortality. Which was made known to us as bodies not made from the dust of the earth. With Jesus noted as being the firstborn from the dead. As He is first in everything. (given supremacy in all things) Also the resurrection Jesus spoke of is the resurrection of us all. Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Daniel and countless others will be raised on that last day.
 

Randy

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On another board, a guy started a thread about Paul's son of perdition figure in 2 Thessalonians 2 - sitting in God's Temple - and suggesting it need not be the actual Temple in Jerusalem.

Although the physical Temple was still standing when Paul wrote both Thessalonian letters, the guy made a good case that elsewhere in the NT, Paul writes of a spiritual Temple of God.

I was intrigued by the idea, and thought I would post about it here.
This speaks to me of more then a inner sanctuary.
Rev 11
I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles
 

Shekinahglory

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In Revelation 11 we are shown the rebuilt temple of anti-Christ. We are shown the worshippers as well as the Gentiles in the outer courts.
 
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JLB

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In Revelation 11 we are shown the rebuilt temple of anti-Christ. We are shown the worshippers as well as the Gentiles in the outer courts.
Most believe the Dome of the Rock will be in the outer court, and remain.

Revelation 11 seems to indicate this.



JLB
 

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