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turnorburn said:
Do you know anything about the Jesuit order Deborah..

tob
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Very little. "even if something appears to be white to me, if the church says it's black, I will say it is black" (paraphrased from the writings of the founder)
I'd have to look it up.
I know they were concerned with reform the RCC, at the same time being completely devoted to her and protecting her.
 
If your not interested in his findings about the two Babylons why not just start a thread about Prophets killed by the popes..

tob
 
turnorburn said:
If your not interested in his findings about the two Babylons why not just start a thread about Prophets killed by the popes..

tob
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I asked you three times, and you still refuse to answer? What are you afraid of? The truth?

The truth is the Papacy has never killed, tortured, or even has a cross word with a single prophet, because there has never been a prophet in the time of the papacy, nor shall be. Since the papacy is innocent of the blood of the prophets, it cannot be Babylon the Great.

Jesus said the blood of all the prophets was on Jerusalem's head. Why not try believing Him for a change. It might do you some good.

Dan
 
I'm afraid you don't know your bible very well are you a papist?

tob

*edit: that's why i said this..It should read how many Saints have the papists killed we Christians are all Saints in the eyes of the almighty..
 
Which by the way is in reference to this scripture from..

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

But we were talking about the Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop..

tob
 
Dan00 said:
I asked you three times, and you still refuse to answer? What are you afraid of? The truth?

The truth is the Papacy has never killed, tortured, or even has a cross word with a single prophet, because there has never been a prophet in the time of the papacy, nor shall be. Since the papacy is innocent of the blood of the prophets, it cannot be Babylon the Great.

Jesus said the blood of all the prophets was on Jerusalem's head. Why not try believing Him for a change. It might do you some good.

Dan
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Why would you say such a thing as, there were never any prophets in the time of the papacy?

When are you saying the papacy started?

Roman Catholicism is responsible for the murder and torture of countless millions of true Christians.


JLB
 
JLB said:
Why would you say such a thing as, there were never any prophets in the time of the papacy?
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You are kidding, right? The last prophet was John, in the first century.

JLB said:
Roman Catholicism is responsible for the murder and torture of countless millions of true Christians.
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So is Bolshevism, for 60 million Russian Orthodox Christians. What does either have to do with the prophets?
 
Dan00 said:
You are kidding, right? The last prophet was John, in the first century.



So is Bolshevism, for 60 million Russian Orthodox Christians. What does either have to do with the prophets?
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John is an Apostle.

There are Prophets and Apostles and Pastors and Teachers and Evangelist's today.

There will continue to be all of the Five until we all mature unto the measure and stature of a perfect man.

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16

Apostles and Prophets are for today!


JLB
 
then why does the modern protestant chiefly pentacostal faith stay away from apostles? I mean when I hear that name its time for name and it claim it crap.
 
We have the writings of the apostles and prophets. What do we lack from them? Anyone today claiming to be an apostle or prophet is at a minimum deluding others, if not themselves.
 
Sinthesis said:
We have the writings of the apostles and prophets. What do we lack from them? Anyone today claiming to be an apostle or prophet is at a minimum deluding others, if not themselves.
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I agree, that everything that was to be revealed about the Lord and the Church has been given through the prophets and the Lord.

I also believe that within the church body, a word of knowledge or wisdom can still be given that comes from the Holy Spirit.
Even Spurgeon, who was a cessationist, experienced this. I would have loved to see his face the first time that happened.
 
Deborah13 said:
I agree, that everything that was to be revealed about the Lord and the Church has been given through the prophets and the Lord.

I also believe that within the church body, a word of knowledge or wisdom can still be given that comes from the Holy Spirit.
Even Spurgeon, who was a cessationist, experienced this. I would have loved to see his face the first time that happened.
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Sure, but from Zechariah 13 we know that nowadays anyone actually touched in that way won't claim the title of prophet.
 
Sinthesis said:
We have the writings of the apostles and prophets. What do we lack from them? Anyone today claiming to be an apostle or prophet is at a minimum deluding others, if not themselves.
Click to expand...

10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:10-16

The work of Apostles and Prophets, as well as Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers is for:

  • the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry
  • for the edifying of the body of Christ,
for the purpose of:

till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--

That is what the scriptures teach.

Anyone who says that any of these positions within the body of Christ, especially Apostles and Prophets, are no longer needed or are no longer applicable, are teaching directly against what the scripture say.

The body of Christ can not be equipped to do the work of the Ministry without all of these positions functioning in maturity.

Paul's writings are for us today, and should not be distorted, which is a violation of this Forum's ToS.


Thanks JLB
 
If you believe that today's Christians as a whole are still "children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting" then you might have a point.

However, I believe that for a generation after Christ's ascension, the apostolic church worked out the essentials of Christian doctrine. So that by the time Temple Judaism was put down by the Romans, Christianity had everything it needed to emerge from Judaism as a mature religion in it's own right. With regard to the essentials of Christianity, we now have "unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" in the small 'c' catholic Church; denominational differences being confined to inessentials. The work of the apostles and prophets is complete and recorded for us in scripture. We lack for nothing from them, all our needs from them are fulfilled through scripture, so there is no need for new 'apostles' or 'prophets' revealing new 'knowledge' to Christians. On the other hand, the works of those holding the offices of evangelist, pastor, or teacher, are in general not recorded in scripture, so their contributions continue even today on a personal level.
 
Sinthesis said:
The work of the apostles and prophets is complete and recorded for us in scripture. We lack for nothing from them, all our needs from them are fulfilled through scripture, so there is no need for new 'apostles' or 'prophets' revealing new 'knowledge' to Christians.
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In this present time the gospel has been fulfilled, and there will be no further events revealed, but prophesying is also to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation. If I am to say Jesus is coming soon, by divine revelation I believe and make that known without adding or taking away from the word. Is this wrong? Thanks.
 
Eugene said:
In this present time the gospel has been fulfilled, and there will be no further events revealed, but prophesying is also to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation. If I am to say Jesus is coming soon, by divine revelation I believe and make that known without adding or taking away from the word. Is this wrong? Thanks.
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That is fine, provided your divine revelation proves to be correct. However, if you think one divine revelation allows you to assume the title of Prophet?:screwloose

FYI - Rev 22:12 is divine revelation that already declares Jesus is coming soon.
 
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