Bible Study Talking With Jesus.

[Johann]

As part of this Subforum section dealing with Christian Growth, there needs to be placed before those who think Christian Growth is possible the fact that God within His Word will not tolerate the foolishness of any type of human Imagination.

The KJV translation contains 36 instances of "imagine/imagination" being translated as such from 12 different original Text words. Thirty five of these 36 instances of the Text literally state that "imagine/imagination" is "evil" and "of the devil." Look them up for yourself before you try to object, or try to "explain what they mean." The one favorable use of "imagination" was part of a specific directive to the Hebrews about the Mosaic Law, and does not relate to Christian's today.

Christian maturity is based upon using God's Word in Scripture to know what in life is material fact, and what is imaginary. An example of an imaginary belief is within the notion that any Believer today can "Talk With Jesus." In fact, no place in Scripture ever teaches or demonstrates this happening. Certainly not after Jesus ascended to Heaven. "Talking With Jesus" today is all imaginary, and is part of Satan's implanted delusion in the Church.

 

[Book Keeper]

An evil imagination and an imagination that is evil are two completely different things.
I don't think that the references to the imagination being evil are indeed as they appear; from how I understand it, 'evil' derived imagination is more suitable for this theory.

I'm sure I do not need to clarify my position when I state that all humans have imagination; that's the wonderful thing about the human brain - the ability to process information and the grey matter sort, organise and structure our thoughts, and in turn, our imagination.

I'm interested to know; how do you communicate with Jesus if you do not 'talk' to Jesus? I suppose you would read the Bible and that is that; no further communication.
I think its pretty steep to say that Talking With Jesus is Satan's trickery.

To state that God will not tolerate imagination, is foolish in itself; if this hypothesis is true and accepted, God doesn't tolerate any human.

 

[Johann]

An evil imagination and an imagination that is evil are two completely different things.
I don't think that the references to the imagination being evil are indeed as they appear; from how I understand it, 'evil' derived imagination is more suitable for this theory.

I'm sure I do not need to clarify my position when I state that all humans have imagination; that's the wonderful thing about the human brain - the ability to process information and the grey matter sort, organise and structure our thoughts, and in turn, our imagination.

I'm interested to know; how do you communicate with Jesus if you do not 'talk' to Jesus? I suppose you would read the Bible and that is that; no further communication.
I think its pretty steep to say that Talking With Jesus is Satan's trickery.

To state that God will not tolerate imagination, is foolish in itself; if this hypothesis is true and accepted, God doesn't tolerate any human.

Is there Scripture which states "imagination is the wonderful thing about the human brain?" If so, Satan gleefully agrees.

BTW, contriving a usefully vague definition of "imagination" for one's discussion purposes is not part a pure heart and a sound mind.

Finally, there is no Scripture which states Jesus today wants to directly talk to you. That is ... imaginary.

 

[Truthfrees]

Finally, there is no Scripture which states Jesus today wants to directly talk to you. That is ... imaginary.

John 10:27 -

 

[JohnDB]

Is there Scripture which states "imagination is the wonderful thing about the human brain?" If so, Satan gleefully agrees.

BTW, contriving a usefully vague definition of "imagination" for one's discussion purposes is not part a pure heart and a sound mind.

Finally, there is no Scripture which states Jesus today wants to directly talk to you. That is ... imaginary.

Revelations 3:20 Listen! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and have dinner with him, and he with Me

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

An evil imagination and an imagination that is evil are two completely different things.
I don't think that the references to the imagination being evil are indeed as they appear; from how I understand it, 'evil' derived imagination is more suitable for this theory.

I'm sure I do not need to clarify my position when I state that all humans have imagination; that's the wonderful thing about the human brain - the ability to process information and the grey matter sort, organise and structure our thoughts, and in turn, our imagination.

I'm interested to know; how do you communicate with Jesus if you do not 'talk' to Jesus? I suppose you would read the Bible and that is that; no further communication.
I think its pretty steep to say that Talking With Jesus is Satan's trickery.

To state that God will not tolerate imagination, is foolish in itself; if this hypothesis is true and accepted, God doesn't tolerate any human.

And it's like I always say, if God didn't intend for us to have imaginations, then He wouldn't have given them to us in the first place.

 

[Who Me]

God within His Word will not tolerate the foolishness of any type of human Imagination.

God tolerates an enormous amount of human foolishness from his 'Christian' people.
What you are getting at is the use of the imagination to interpretscripture in ways that the words do not say.

A classic example is trying to make genesis 1 read as though there are millions of years contained in it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Johann

Not all imaginations are evil as scripture talks about the evil imaginations it also teaches about good imaginations.

Genesis 6:5 imaginations come from the thoughts of our heart and can be good thoughts or evil thoughts of an inward desire like what is written in Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Strong's Concordance: imagination
Definition: a reasoning, a thought
Usage: reasoning, thinking, a conception, device

It's by prayer and supplication that we talk to Jesus as He is our mediator before the Father and He will hear us as we talk to Him.

1 Kings 93 And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

Psalms 66:19 But verily God hath heard me; he hath attended to the voice of my prayer.

Psalms 145:18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth. 19 He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

 

[Book Keeper]

Is there Scripture which states "imagination is the wonderful thing about the human brain?" If so, Satan gleefully agrees.

BTW, contriving a usefully vague definition of "imagination" for one's discussion purposes is not part a pure heart and a sound mind.

Finally, there is no Scripture which states Jesus today wants to directly talk to you. That is ... imaginary.

I refuse to engage in a tête-à-tête regarding this perception. I think I have thoroughly explained my opinion on this topic, and I have nothing further to contribute.
I concur, my definition of imagination was useful to the subject at hand; I could proceed to provide more clarity as to how the human mind contains an imagination from a scientific standpoint, however this isn't the forum to discuss such.

I offer my advice to you sir; that is to accept that other peoples walk with Christ may differ from your own - we are not in competition with each other; quite the contrary, we are in unison with each other.

 

[dianegcook]

God tolerates an enormous amount of human foolishness from his 'Christian' people.
What you are getting at is the use of the imagination to interpretscripture in ways that the words do not say.

A classic example is trying to make genesis 1 read as though there are millions of years contained in it.

Ouch!

 

[dianegcook]

God tolerates an enormous amount of human foolishness from his 'Christian' people.
What you are getting at is the use of the imagination to interpretscripture in ways that the words do not say.

A classic example is trying to make genesis 1 read as though there are millions of years contained in it.

Question?
When was Satan a cherub? Ezek.28:14,15
Ezek.38:4-7
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.

Who hath laid the measurements thereof, if thou Knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations there of fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof,
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[Who Me]

Declare, if thou hast understanding.

We either read out of scripture what it says or read into scripture what it does not say.

 

[dianegcook]

We either read out of scripture what it says or read into scripture what it does not say.

Seek and ye shall find...

Gen.1:2
And the earth was (became) without form and void.
Was, Strong's #1961 Hebrew, meaning, become, come to pass.

Jer.4:23-27
I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, and the heavens, had no light.
I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly..
I beheld, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.

The katabole
Ever heard of the overthrow?

 

[K2CHRIST]

His Word will not tolerate the foolishness of any type of human Imagination.

HA, HA, HA

God won't tolerate the foolishness??? HA!!!

Tolerate?? Heck there is something written about Him using the foolish things of this world!! US!!

We need to get over ourselves and get a realization of who we really are!!

Jesus said something about if you don't come to Him like a child.

My friends - if you don't realize that you and your great mature wisdom doesn't come close to comparing to Him, how are you ever going to start seeking Him and what He has to say to you?????

Perhaps some people don't realize it, but if you don't listen to the Lord the Scriptures become the Word of God to you! Yet if you do listen to the Lord then He becomes the Word of God to you and the Scriptures then become the Sacred Writings He sometime talks to you about! ---- Read what I just wrote slowly or you might miss the importance.

Yet this is a Bible study section so let me show you where that exact thing is written in the Bible - perhaps someone didn't read it slowly?

Is 28:12 & 13 [NASB]
He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.

So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“[fn]Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

Look closely at those two verses. In verse 12 The Lord was talking to the people and wanting to give them rest, "but they would not listen"!!!!

So what happens if you don't listen to the Lord?? Well if you don't listen to His voice then the lines of text [The Scriptures] then have to be the Word of God to you!! That's what happens.

Of course that is the case, because if you listened to God you would understand that He [Jesus Christ] is there and He has the words God personally has for you!! So if you listen to Him, He becomes your Lord giving you instructions, He becomes your Teacher giving you teachings, He becomes your friend giving you encouragement, and more.....

But if you don't listen to Him and you want to know something from God your only other possibility is the Sacred Writings from people who did listen to Him, like Isaiah. But you are not like Isaiah, because you don't listen to Him.

So Isaiah would write, Is 1:2 Listen, O hevens, and hear, O eath: for the Lord speaks

That would make the Lord the Word of God to Isaiah, but Isaiah also knew that if people didn't listen to the Lord then the very lines of text he was writing at that very time would be the word of the Lord to them. Isaiah knew that, and so did the Lord so it was written down to explain the problem to people who didn't listen in hopes that someday that might change.

Yet there is a problem, which can be seen in verse 13 above, with making the Bible ,and not the Lord, the Word of God in your life! And that problem is that you will go stumbling backwards!!!

Let me explain that problem to you - Man must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God - and think - Jesus Christ said He would never leave you and also that His sheep hear His voice - so if you are depending on your understanding of the Bible instead of listening to Him you are only living off those words handed down in the desert long ago!! Those are not words from the living word of God, but perhaps you have talked yourself into believing the ink on pages are alive? My friends - Jesus Christ is a live!! And Jesus Christ is the Word of God!! You need to know Him and you need to know Him and the Word of God!!

But again, since this is the Bible study section, let me help with the Revelation that Jesus Christ is the Word of God, and He is not your Bible, but the One who talks to you via the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Do you see that. He is The Word of God!! That is His name!!

So a brief test to see if you have it:

Who are what did Abram see in the vision recorded in Gen 15: After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying....

Did you answer Jesus Christ? I hope so. The word of the Lord or The word of God is His name! So Abram saw the Christ who was speaking to Him!

So who or what did Ezekiel hear from in Ez 6:1 And the word of the Lord came to me saying.....

Again it was the One we call Jesus Christ! Ezekiel did not know the Christ as Jesus (God's salvation) but Ezekiel, like Isaiah, did know the Christ as the One who spoke to him and who had the words of God. So Jesus Christ was, and still is, the Word of God to those who know Him because they listen to Him. The others will simply just have to know the Scared Writings as the Word of God, because they don't know Him.

The problem is that we are supposed to be preaching Jesus Christ not the Bible.

The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't you the Lord to preach the Bible, we use the Bible to preach the Lord."

So the Bible is extremely valuable, but some people's understanding is backwards.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Christian maturity is based upon using God's Word in Scripture

I went long on my last response. Let me go shorter on this one.

Maturity in Christ is not based on "using God Word in Scripture" It is based on practicing hearing the Lord!

Heb 5:11... 14 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Briefly - If you don't listen to the Lord as the Word of God, then you are going to become dull of hearing. Then again, you are going to have to be told about the elementary principles - which is that His sheep hear His voice, meaning the oracles of God. Basically telling people to seek the Lord's voice and listen is the elementary principle or word of God we are preaching. There is more, but you have to understand that Jesus Christ is alive and that you can get to know Him, first.

So not listening to Him might not keep a person from teaching, but it does make them unqualified and so they themselves need again to be taught the basics!

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

As part of this Subforum section dealing with Christian Growth, there needs to be placed before those who think Christian Growth is possible the fact that God within His Word will not tolerate the foolishness of any type of human Imagination.

The KJV translation contains 36 instances of "imagine/imagination" being translated as such from 12 different original Text words. Thirty five of these 36 instances of the Text literally state that "imagine/imagination" is "evil" and "of the devil." Look them up for yourself before you try to object, or try to "explain what they mean." The one favorable use of "imagination" was part of a specific directive to the Hebrews about the Mosaic Law, and does not relate to Christian's today.

Christian maturity is based upon using God's Word in Scripture to know what in life is material fact, and what is imaginary. An example of an imaginary belief is within the notion that any Believer today can "Talk With Jesus." In fact, no place in Scripture ever teaches or demonstrates this happening. Certainly not after Jesus ascended to Heaven. "Talking With Jesus" today is all imaginary, and is part of Satan's implanted delusion in the Church.

Paul did it. It was a rebuke from Jesus and a conversion for Paul. No reason to believe it can't happen today also.

Though having caution when someone says they have a word from God or from Jesus should be applied. Because too often a person says "God told me" when it was something they want to believe, or something they want a stronger stance on. But if Jesus doesn't talk to us in this day in age, then we live in a sad state of the world. Hope that that isn't true and St and by that hope. Even if you don't hear Jesus talking to you, or don't know if something was from God or not. Hold the hope that God still talks to us and to our generation in the world we live in today.