Theology isn't as important as....

[Quantrill]

Yes, you can be zealous without being aggressive.

zeal: eagerness and ardent interest in pursuit of something

aggression: overt or covert, often harmful, social interaction with the intention of inflicting damage or other unpleasantness upon another individual.

See, that's me. Zealous.

Where does your aggression come from?

And, what makes me a Bible thumper and not you?

Quantrill

 

[Tradidi]

See, that's me. Zealous.

Where does your aggression come from?

And, what makes me a Bible thumper and not you?

Quantrill

Did you notice that not once did I make a remark about YOU?

Did you notice that all your replies were about ME?

That is the difference between zeal and aggression.

 

[Tradidi]

Theology is "the study of the nature of God and religious truth; rational inquiry into religious questions." — Wordnik

There are two ways in which one can study: with or without a teacher.

Those who study without a teacher are usually proud because they did it all by themselves, they are 'discoverers or inventors'. They claim to have a direct hotline with the Holy Spirit, so they have no need of a human teacher. They spurn and despise Our Lord's words to His apostles in Matthew 28:19. Theirs is the kind of knowledge that puffeth up. (1 Corinthians 8:1)

Those who study with a teacher are usually more humble, because they are merely receivers and transmitters, not inventors. Like the Eunuch in Acts 8:34, they recognise that they may not understand "unless some man shew me." They usually end up with both the truth and God's grace. "God resisteth the proud and giveth grace to the humble." (James 4:6). Theirs is the kind of truth that will set them free, especially having a humble opinion of oneself.

Good theology leads to humility, grace and a sincere love of God. Bad theology leads to love of self, pride and perdition.

 

[Quantrill]

Did you notice that not once did I make a remark about YOU?

Did you notice that all your replies were about ME?

That is the difference between zeal and aggression.

Yes, my remarks were about you. Just remove me from them then. And answer the same questions.

You quote the Bible yet accuse others of being Bible thumpers. What makes you not a Bible thumper?

And, where do you get your aggression from? You accuse others so don't say your not aggressive. By your own definitions that's the difference.

Me, I'm just zealous.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Do you ever get to that point when you want to lay aside all the theology and "deeper truths" and mysteries of God and just cry out to Him and say, "Save me, God!"

That's where I'm at today. Theology is great, but I could name some things that are a lot more important: honesty, faith and hope inside the process of prayer. Those are three things I see that are crucial to communing with God during prayer. Who cares if I am a messy with my theology. You can be a theological expert and not know how to communicate your heart to God.

Just thought I'd share that with you all.

I did that back in 1998 as I emptied my mind of everything that I was ever taught by man and humbled myself before the Lord and cried out to Him as I surrendered all to Him. I started studying the Bible by praying first and asking the Holy Spirit to reveal truth in what has already been written. The more I studied the more I got into the deeper truths understanding the mysteries of God and my relationship with Him through His Son Christ Jesus.

 

[for_his_glory]

You won't learn more about the Person without doctrine.

Again, you want to make doctrine and knowledge of God and Christ out to be as though they are opposites. They are not.

Quantrill

I have to disagree with this as doctrine and knowledge of God are two different things. We can read all the doctrines of Christ in scripture, but yet have no knowledge of who God truly is as in having a personal relationship and fellowship with Him and His Son Christ Jesus.

From 1973-1997 I was going to church off and on and reading my Bible believing everything that came out of the pulpit even if I did not always understand it all. I just took the Pastor's word for what he spoke as I wasn't very mature in the word during those years. During all those years I never knew anything about having a personal relationship with Christ. That didn't happen until 1997 when my life was in such an emotional mess I was trying to deal with for many years that I couldn't take it anymore and cried out to Jesus to save me from my torment as I laid it all before Him and there He revealed Himself to me. From that point on I knew I was His own as now He is my best friend and we talk and have fellowship all the time.

 

[for_his_glory]

God is angry if we don't study the Bible? He must be carrying a lot of anger then, considering all the people who don't.

God is not angry, but patience and longsuffering that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9, 10

 

[for_his_glory]

'Bible thumping theologians'. Interesting term. I have been labeled that only by unbelievers and those that hate Christ and the Bible. Interesting.

You quote from the Bible. Are you a 'bible thumper'?

Quantrill

A Bible thumper is one who tries to shove the scriptures down your throat yelling at you to repent. No one in here is a Bible thumper so why are you asking others if they are?

 

[for_his_glory]

How can you be zealous and not agressive? Why do you consider 'fundamentalist's' as Bible thumpers and not you? Seems you're the one showing agression here. Don't misunderstand, I don't mind your aggression. I just mind the double standard you impose.

Quantrill

Slow your roll as Tradidi has shown no aggression. We all should be zealous as a Christian, but never to the point of being aggressive trying to force our beliefs on others by shoving that down their throats.

 

[Quantrill]

I have to disagree with this as doctrine and knowledge of God are two different things. We can read all the doctrines of Christ in scripture, but yet have no knowledge of who God truly is as in having a personal relationship and fellowship with Him and His Son Christ Jesus.

From 1973-1997 I was going to church off and on and reading my Bible believing everything that came out of the pulpit even if I did not always understand it all. I just took the Pastor's word for what he spoke as I wasn't very mature in the word during those years. During all those years I never knew anything about having a personal relationship with Christ. That didn't happen until 1997 when my life was in such an emotional mess I was trying to deal with for many years that I couldn't take it anymore and cried out to Jesus to save me from my torment as I laid it all before Him and there He revealed Himself to me. From that point on I knew I was His own as now He is my best friend and we talk and have fellowship all the time.

You disagree because you see the word 'doctrine' as opposed to a knowledge of God. You see 'doctrine' as opposed to God. You see 'doctrine' as something of an academic attainment and not of the Spirit of God.

Yet Jesus Christ had a doctrine. Funny, that He had no credentials from Pharisees or Jewish Priests and Scribes.

See (Matt. 7:28) (Mark 1:22) (Mark 4:2) (Mark 11:18) (Mark 12:38) (John 7:16) etc. etc. His doctrine was based upon His 'knowledge' of God. Was Christ's doctrine opposed to God? Of course not. His doctrine was based upon His knowledge of God and He being God the Son, His doctrine was perfect.

My point being, don't be afraid of the word 'doctrine'. Don't equate ignorance of the Scripture with spirituality. Our spirituality and maturity and our doctrine will go hand in hand.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

A Bible thumper is one who tries to shove the scriptures down your throat yelling at you to repent. No one in here is a Bible thumper so why are you asking others if they are?

Yet the world will call a Christian a Bible thumper just because he witnesses to them and believes the Bible. See post #(35). If you quote them a Scripture, you're a Bible thumper. You're definition seems to be your own.

Quantrill

 

[WIP]

What do you mean 'which doctrine'. You're the one that generalized 'theology'. Which theology then?

Do you study the Bible to learn your theology and doctrine?

Quantrill

If and when I study Scripture, it is for gaining a deeper understanding of God and to build on my relationship with Him. I have found that the more I read Scripture, the more that seems to come to light. It's not always much and may not even be profound but it is something. I believe God gives us what we need and when we need it. Baby steps as it were.

 

[humble soul]

If and when I study Scripture, it is for gaining a deeper understanding of God and to build on my relationship with Him. I have found that the more I read Scripture, the more that seems to come to light. It's not always much and may not even be profound but it is something. I believe God gives us what we need and when we need it. Baby steps as it were.

See. It's all about intent. Are we studying to compete and show off our knowledge? Or are we genuinely wanting to understand God more? WIP is the latter.

 

[for_his_glory]

You disagree because you see the word 'doctrine' as opposed to a knowledge of God. You see 'doctrine' as opposed to God. You see 'doctrine' as something of an academic attainment and not of the Spirit of God.

Yet Jesus Christ had a doctrine. Funny, that He had no credentials from Pharisees or Jewish Priests and Scribes.

See (Matt. 7:28) (Mark 1:22) (Mark 4:2) (Mark 11:18) (Mark 12:38) (John 7:16) etc. etc. His doctrine was based upon His 'knowledge' of God. Was Christ's doctrine opposed to God? Of course not. His doctrine was based upon His knowledge of God and He being God the Son, His doctrine was perfect.

My point being, don't be afraid of the word 'doctrine'. Don't equate ignorance of the Scripture with spirituality. Our spirituality and maturity and our doctrine will go hand in hand.

Quantrill

Why would anyone be afraid of the doctrine of Christ. If one is ignorant of the scriptures then they have not the doctrines of Christ nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in whom we receive Spiritual knowledge given by the Holy Spirit either directly or working through others to teach us. The doctrine of Christ is that of what God gave him to speak and commanded him to do as Jesus never spoke or did anything that God did not give Him to speak and do.


John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yet the world will call a Christian a Bible thumper just because he witnesses to them and believes the Bible. See post #(35). If you quote them a Scripture, you're a Bible thumper. You're definition seems to be your own.

Quantrill

Bible thumper - a person who expounds or follows the teachings of the Bible in an aggressively evangelical way.

Who have you ever seen in here or any other forum in CF that shows aggression while discussing the scriptures, and do not say Tradidi as he has shown no aggression towards anyone in here as you claim.

 

[Quantrill]

If and when I study Scripture, it is for gaining a deeper understanding of God and to build on my relationship with Him. I have found that the more I read Scripture, the more that seems to come to light. It's not always much and may not even be profound but it is something. I believe God gives us what we need and when we need it. Baby steps as it were.

I agree. See (Is. 28:9-10). And as you build upon your knowledge of God and understanding in the Scripture, you develop your doctrine.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Why would anyone be afraid of the doctrine of Christ. If one is ignorant of the scriptures then they have not the doctrines of Christ nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in whom we receive Spiritual knowledge given by the Holy Spirit either directly or working through others to teach us. The doctrine of Christ is that of what God gave him to speak and commanded him to do as Jesus never spoke or did anything that God did not give Him to speak and do.


John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Indeed. That is my point. Why would they?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Bible thumper - a person who expounds or follows the teachings of the Bible in an aggressively evangelical way.

Who have you ever seen in here or any other forum in CF that shows aggression while discussing the scriptures, and do not say Tradidi as he has shown no aggression towards anyone in here as you claim.

Go back to post #(35). Read from there. I responded to that. It's easy to call yourself zealous and the other aggressive. post #(38) That was my point.

Quantrill

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This "man made" label is often used by Christians in an accusatory tone. I find it unconvincing as so many interpretations of the Bible exist anyway. You could say all denominations created after Martin Luther are man made. He rebelled, not that I think it necessarily bad, as he challenged people to think for themselves. The Church was out of control at the time. It needed a serious wake up call. And still does many would say.
The Bible doesn't interpret itself. The truth is not there in black and white, plain to see. There are so many layers of meaning. Translations vary. Emphases vary. This sounds all man made to me.

God's word-doctrine is truth (Jn 17:17) and truth never contradicts itself as man made doctrines not only contradict God's truth but contradict each other. It therefore is impossible to have contradictions between two people and both be right. One must be wrong or both can be wrong but impossible for both to be doctrinally correct. Jn 8:32 truth, God's word, can be known/understood Eph 3:4; Eph 5:17. If the Bible is just one big gray area and cannot be correctly understood then what purpose does it serve? None. It would be as worthless as the paper those words are printed upon.

From what you post, you seem to think Catholicism was the one true church but it went "out of control" and Luther 'fixed' it. Which I do not agree with any of this premise at all.
Denominationalism came from man not God...Eph 4:45 there is ONE faith and ONE body (church). Paul used the institution of marriage to show Christ's (the Husband) relationship to the church (the bride of Christ). The Bible teaches ONE husband married to ONE bride cf 2 Cor 11:2. Denominationalism has Christ being a spiritual polygamist, a spiritual adulterer having a harem of 1000's of brides.

A common question I hear people ask, you may have been asked this question yourself at one time, is "what faith are you?"
The question implies there are many different faithS and you are being asked which one of the many different faithS did you choose for yourself. Where does the question come from and what it is based upon? We can rule out it coming from the Bible for the Bible certainly does not teach it, so where/what is it based upon? Man made doctrine, man made denominationalism.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I really enjoy topics like this because It makes me stop and think about how does LOVE have a place to fit in, and be used in any topic like this for the benefit of the readers and searchers.
To me we all need the proper knowledge of scripture, but we also need to know how to apply that knowledge and communicate it in a loving Godly manner with patience and kindness.

2nd Timothy 2:15 says, "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved who does not need to be ashamed and who >correctly handles the word of truth."<

When we "Handle" the word of truth we are speaking to others, and while it's important to be correct in our knowledge of what we believe God is saying, it's also just as important how our knowledge and opinions are presented, that being a part of "handling the word CORRECTLY", sharing with the LOVE and KINDNESS that God Himself and Christ "Promote as the central theme of scripture."

1st Corinthians 13:1 says, "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal.
And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and ">ALL KNOWLEDGE<", but do not have LOVE, "I am nothing."
All of us have either read or heard those who can quote scripture after scripture, making all the right points and being dead on correct in their conclusions, but the divisive tone of voice and animated body language and the harsh presentation drives people away, instead of drawing them close to Christ with the same love that Christ used to attract His followers.

Theology presented with a balance of KNOWLEDGE, LOVE and KINDNESS is like "Honey" to the listener.
Sweet to the ears and a soothing salve for the heart.

May God Himself bless us all as we search for His truth, and may we bless all that we meet with His Love.
My name is OLIGOS